[Rozay]

I said in the summer that Rooney will pull off the trick of lowering expectations so much to the point where any performance that isn't terrible will be praised, and seen as evidence of some sort of renaissance.

The Wayne Rooney that plays at a level where United would consider signing him is long gone. The list of better strikers in the PL isn't limited to just the likes of Aguero, it would include the likes of Ings, Berahino, Diafra Sakho and even Jamie fecking Vardy. None of those are top players, but would have served the team better, and that includes last season too for those who want to label it as 'he's been poor this season'.

That's nonsense, of course.

He's been poor enough in recent weeks to merit a lot of justified criticism. Really don't see the need to throw in completely made up criticism too. Weird the way people seem to take such relish in belittling a Manchester United player.

That is correct. For all his criticism, which has been very justified, the one part of his game that isn't in question, and probably never will be, is his ability to do what he did against Howard. He can finish, the question is that the rest of his attributes have declined to the point where he won't get enough opportunities to showcase his finishing.

His second goal vs Croatia in Euro 2004 was similar in how he sat the keeper down and sent him, and there have been many since. There was one for England a few months ago, can't remember against who, in the game Wilshere hit a screamer and got MOTM. When he's through on goal, he takes them like spot kicks.

I haven't hid that I don't particularly rate the player he is today, but given time and space, I trust him.

 

[Duafc]

Love the way people don't even let reality get in the way of Rooney criticism these days. Great stuff.

It's a drop in the ocean.

I literally have never seen such a lack of objectivity as on Redcafe.

 

[finneh]

Yesterday was at least a 7/10... More fair would probably be 7.5/10. Incredibly harsh to say 6/10. His all around game was good bar a 15 minute spell in the first half, he made runs in behind even if he looked a bit leggy, scored a goal, created a few chances and generally did well as the lone striker. That's the type of performance we should be expecting from a player with his reputation, and it's what he should be capable of consistently putting in, instead of being a stand out one. Hopefully he can keep up that level.

Smalling's average rating this season is 7.1 - there's no way Rooney was at that level.

Whether people are harsh or not on their ratings is another issue. In terms of this forums ratings he was a certain 6.

If Rooney is a 7 then the likes of Rojo becomed a 7.5 or 8, the likes of Smallng/Schneiderlin become 8.5's or 9's and Herrera becomes a 9.5 or 10, the latter of which is the kind if rating reserved for truly special performances.

We should be expecting a higher level than that. The one v one chance where he allowed Jagielka to catch up and shot poorly was the kind of difference between a 6 or 6.5 performance and a 7 or 7.5.

 

[Duafc]

I said in the summer that Rooney will pull off the trick of lowering expectations so much to the point where any performance that isn't terrible will be praised, and seen as evidence of some sort of renaissance.

The Wayne Rooney that plays at a level where United would consider signing him is long gone. The list of better strikers in the PL isn't limited to just the likes of Aguero, it would include the likes of Ings, Berahino, Diafra Sakho and even Jamie fecking Vardy. None of those are top players, but would have served the team better, and that includes last season too for those who want to label it as 'he's been poor this season'.


That is correct. For all his criticism, which has been very justified, the one part of his game that isn't in question, and probably never will be, is his ability to do what he did against Howard. He can finish, the question is that the rest of his attributes have declined to the point where he won't get enough opportunities to showcase his finishing.

His second goal vs Croatia in Euro 2004 was similar in how he sat the keeper down and sent him, and there have been many since. There was one for England a few months ago, can't remember against who, in the game Wilshere hit a screamer and got MOTM. When he's through on goal, he takes them like spot kicks.

I haven't hid that I don't particularly rate the player he is today, but given time and space, I trust him.

Probably all true. Seems beyond the point of recovery now as well which is a shame and quite difficult to understand... Whether it's age, the amount of football he's played or a confidence thing.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Unfortunately this is spot on. It seems most of us are resigned to him being a fixture in the team and are desperately looking for whatever little he can offer us at the moment.

Although tbf to Rooney, he did make a couple of threatening runs off the ball in the last game (the one where he laid it for Martial, the one where he scored and another which I can't really remember) and if the team can function more cohesively like it did against Everton, then perhaps he might at least be a decent goalscorer without messing up/contributing minimally to our build-up phase. It was rather disheartening to see him being shot of pace too, he had lost his explosiveness some time back but still retained semblances of his speed over long distances last season, but I'm really hoping that's due to him just returning from that ankle injury (although we haven't exactly seen it in earlier games this season).

Still think there are some decent finishes in him, although fluffing chances against Swansea and Newcastle was it? makes me question that, and if we can provide him with a fair amount of service, then we can expect a reasonable amount of goals and the least amount of damage from him.

Last run was the great ball from Martial from a full back position all the way up to Rooney I believe? He did offer some runs in the game that was great to see even if they have to be taken with a pinch of salt as Everton were some goals down which makes it a lot easier to attack. His runs were good against Everton though once we were ahead and had space to attack. Over longer distances he still looks pretty quick even if Jagielka was quicker for that one chance from Martial.

I think the worst moment for me was when he was free against one or two defenders and decided to shoot from the right hand side from 35-40 yards away almost like he had no confidence at all in creating something real.

 

[Duafc]

Smalling's average rating this season is 7.1 - there's no way Rooney was at that level.

Whether people are harsh or not on their ratings is another issue. In terms of this forums ratings he was a certain 6.

If Rooney is a 7 then the likes of Rojo becomed a 7.5 or 8, the likes of Smallng/Schneiderlin become 8.5's or 9's and Herrera becomes a 9.5 or 10, which are the kind if rating reserved for truly special performances.

We should be expecting a higher level than that. The one v one chance where he allowed Jagielka to catch up and shot poorly was the kind of difference between a 6 or 6.5 performance and a 7 or 7.5.

Science.

 

[finneh]

Science.

Common sense.

 

[Amar__]

This sums it all up perfectly

I am a Rooney fan and a Martial fan and a Herrera fan and a Wilson fan and a Mata fan and a Rojo fan , shall I go on, find anything in common; oh yes they play for United, ever consider supporting the team and not be a fan boy just for one day with your own particular fanboy fancies

Everyone fancies some players, you can't like everyone the same, that would be really stupid and boring.

 

[Black Adder]

He deserves criticism for his performances when he plays like pub player (which tbf was more often than not this season), but to criticise him when he's been involved in build-up for 2 goals, scores one himself, and sets clear chance for Martial is just ridiculous as people try so hard to find something they can moan about.

 

[Player Red]

That's nonsense, of course.

He's been poor enough in recent weeks to merit a lot of justified criticism. Really don't see the need to throw in completely made up criticism too. Weird the way people seem to take such relish in belittling a Manchester United player.

I was caught between these thoughts when watching. It doesn't look like a great finish, but how many times do we see players shoot across the keeper leading to a routine save, and then when watching the reply we think why not just put it down the side of the keeper. It is easy to shoot at the space but as seen by Rooney's goal, a keeper can't dive full stretch when you put it at his side.

 

[SteveJ]

I'm disappointed that he didn't screw the white ball back, with a touch of left-hand side.

 

[Sky1981]

He deserves criticism for his performances when he plays like pub player (which tbf was more often than not this season), but to criticise him when he's been involved in build-up for 2 goals, scores one himself, and sets clear chance for Martial is just ridiculous as people try so hard to find something they can moan about.

I dont critize him for the goal and his good doing at goodison. But i dread the people that claims he's back and having a great game. He doesnt apart from the goal. His play bar the goal and the pass is atrocious. That's my beef with him.

For me personally he doesnt need to score goal to win me over. Enough that he do the basic right i.e being in the right position, holding up ball, and not miss passing the ball everytime he receives a pass. When he start doing that then ill admit he's picking up form.

It's the basic. Anyone can score an odd goal playing for Manchester united, but a striker of his calibre shouldn't fail to pass to a teammate 12 fecking times in a game under no pressure.

 

[acnumber9]

He deserves criticism for his performances when he plays like pub player (which tbf was more often than not this season), but to criticise him when he's been involved in build-up for 2 goals, scores one himself, and sets clear chance for Martial is just ridiculous as people try so hard to find something they can moan about.

He was fine for the most part on Saturday but lets not stretch to crediting him with being 'involved' in the build up for two goals.

 

[Red Dreams]

I'm disappointed that he didn't screw the white ball back, with a touch of left-hand side.

 

[Sam]

The one thing I don't get with the media love in with Rooney is that when he was younger, and genuinely a fantastic player, the media seemed absolutely desperate to jump on his back at every possible opportunity. Yet as he's got older, and worse, he's suddenly the golden boy who can do no wrong.

 

[clarkydaz]

I don't think his passing has been bad or that he's lost the ball more than anybody else, it is just what it seems like as he has a tendency to misplace a pass for no reason what so ever in what seems like every game he plays and it bothers people.

Personally I don't really get him these days. I can't pin-point why he is playing? To score goals? No? Beautiful link up play? Not that either? Physical hold up play? Not even that? He's not even good defensively these days and Herrera completely outpressed him from the striker position and there were vasts quality difference in the way Herrera harried his opponents compared a jogging Rooney.

He makes the least damage when he's played upfront though.

for all the pages and endless threads on the Rooney debate, this needs carving in a rock for all to see

 

[Devil may care]

I am sure some are actually bigger fans of individual players than they are of Manchester United. The biggest frustration with Rooney is that he would be more tolerable if he was just a back up, but his perma starting spot drags the team down.

 

[Black Adder]

I dont critize him for the goal and his good doing at goodison. But i dread the people that claims he's back and having a great game. He doesnt apart from the goal. His play bar the goal and the pass is atrocious. That's my beef with him.

For me personally he doesnt need to score goal to win me over. Enough that he do the basic right i.e being in the right position, holding up ball, and not miss passing the ball everytime he receives a pass. When he start doing that then ill admit he's picking up form.

It's the basic. Anyone can score an odd goal playing for Manchester united, but a striker of his calibre shouldn't fail to pass to a teammate 12 fecking times in a game under no pressure.

I don't think there's single poster here claiming he's back or that he had a great game, even those who give him some credit for performance still acknowladge he played good but in patches, not for an entire match.

He made few smart runs behind defence, one resulting in him scoring (being in the right position), he did hold up ball, passed it to Scheweini before Herrera scored (holding up ball), and he did set up clear chance to Martial which Martial didn't score (passing to teammate), not enough?

He was fine for the most part on Saturday but lets not stretch to crediting him with being 'involved' in the build up for two goals.

He did try to win header which prevented their defender of clearing the ball and 2 sec later Morgan scored, if not I doubt their defender would miss clear header and gave ball to Smalling. He also did hold up ball with defender behind him, gave it to Schweini, made a run to the box dragging Stones slightly out of postion which Herrera used and scored. Now that aren't clear assists but it's something, not like he stood still while everyone else played their part.

 

[Sam]

He made few smart runs behind defence, one resulting in him scoring (being in the right position), he did hold up ball, passed it to Scheweini before Herrera scored (holding up ball), and he did set up clear chance to Martial which Martial didn't score (passing to teammate), not enough?
.

Three good bits of play alongside a shower of shit touches, terrible passes, and awful hold up play?

No, that's not enough, its not even close.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Watched the whole game again on MUTV last night. It seemed to be everytime a move broke down it was because of Rooney. His passing has gone to pot.

According to Garth Crooks it's Ander and the new players we have bought having to learn LvG's system that is making Wayne play so badly.

 

[Kag]

The one thing I don't get with the media love in with Rooney is that when he was younger, and genuinely a fantastic player, the media seemed absolutely desperate to jump on his back at every possible opportunity. Yet as he's got older, and worse, he's suddenly the golden boy who can do no wrong.

All part of the narrative. He's the elder statesman now, and his captaincy of both United and England gives him a fair amount of clout.

Few journalists will care to admit it, but they are better for keeping Rooney sweet.

Jason Burt at the Telegraph went through him like a bulldozer the other week, in fairness.

 

[Sam]

Watched the whole game again on MUTV last night. It seemed to be everytime a move broke down it was because of Rooney. His passing has gone to pot.

Thats because it did. The first half particularity, he was awful.

Even when he does control the ball it takes him ages, so by the time he has it under control the momentum of the move has broken down. He's a shell of the player he once was. He makes controlling the ball seem like some sort of impossible task.

 

[SteveJ]

In our team, he's more out of place than rednev on a hen night.

 

[clarkydaz]

Watched the whole game again on MUTV last night. It seemed to be everytime a move broke down it was because of Rooney. His passing has gone to pot.

According to Garth Crooks it's Ander and the new players we have bought having to learn LvG's system that is making Wayne play so badly.

The same Ander who was man of the match, they all drag Rooney down to their level. twats

 

[Sarni]

Watched the whole game again on MUTV last night. It seemed to be everytime a move broke down it was because of Rooney. His passing has gone to pot.

According to Garth Crooks it's Ander and the new players we have bought having to learn LvG's system that is making Wayne play so badly.

He has a point. Wayne has to sacrifice himself and he's taking one for the team, definitely.

 

[Black Adder]

Three good bits of play alongside a shower of shit touches, terrible passes, and awful hold up play?

No, that's not enough, its not even close.

Poster said hes not doing basic right, but he does, although I agree its not enough but dont make it seem like hes just standing there while everyone else do miracles.

 

[Sam]

Poster said hes not doing basic right, but he does, although I agree its not enough but dont make it seem like hes just standing there while everyone else do miracles.

He's not doing the basics right though. He's constantly miss controlling the ball, or taking an age just to get it under control. Giving the ball away, or under hitting passes. These are basic things that he should be able to do in his sleep. And not just a few times a game, but 90% of the time.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

He has a point. Wayne has to sacrifice himself and he's taking one for the team, definitely.

This is completely true. He needs better team mates.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

He's a counter attacking player through and through.

He plays on instincts and when he is confident his instincts shows that he is a very intelligent and excellent player.

When he plays at a slow pace and has time to think he never plays well. He over thinks his next move and can easily miscontrol or feck up the easiest of passes.

Rooney is not the striker for a possession based system. He doesn't have that quick speed burst anymore but is still very fast when on the break.

I really do wish LVG would be more flexible with tactics. Our counter attacks vs Everton were excellent and Rooney showed he still very good on the break.

 

[Black Adder]

He's not doing the basics right though. He's constantly miss controlling the ball, or taking an age just to get it under control. Giving the ball away, or under hitting passes. These are basic things that he should be able to do in his sleep. And not just a few times a game, but 90% of the time.

90% of the time, where did you get that information from?

 

[Dion]

Our counter attacks vs Everton were excellent and Rooney showed he still very good on the break.

Apart from that time renown pace merchant, post-ACL recovery, 33 year old Phil Jagielka gave him 3 yards head start and still got back at him?

He's better on the break, good is pushing it.

 

[Red Dreams]

He's a counter attacking player through and through.

He plays on instincts and when he is confident his instincts shows that he is a very intelligent and excellent player.

When he plays at a slow pace and has time to think he never plays well. He over thinks his next move and can easily miscontrol or feck up the easiest of passes.

Rooney is not the striker for a possession based system. He doesn't have that quick speed burst anymore but is still very fast when on the break.

I really do wish LVG would be more flexible with tactics. Our counter attacks vs Everton were excellent and Rooney showed he still very good on the break.

felt he was better Saturday because we were more direct...a throwback to the Fergie days.

 

[prath92]

Tbh, a better keeper than Howard, and he wouldn't have scored. Howard was already on the floor diving the wrong way before Rooney had raised his tree trunk of a leg to shoot.

A better DM than Barry wouldn't let Herrera unmarked into the box. A better defensive set up wouldn't leave Schneiderlin unmarked at the far post. You can say stuff about all the goals like this.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

The phone-in on Talksport now is that Adrian Durham thinks Rooney is back to his best. That's asking for trouble.

 

[Sam]

90% of the time, where did you get that information from?

Well you'd expect a striker playing for a top level team to be able to do the basics like controlling the ball, most times would you not? It certainly shouldn't be this complete lottery where you just haven't got a clue where the ball will end up when its played to Rooney.

Players like Suarez, Neymar, Benzema, Aguero don't have this problem. Most times their touch will be excellence, hence why they are top players. Even our very own Martial has shown up how bad Rooney is these days. He's simply not good enough anymore for a top level team. If we aspire to be among the best in Europe again, we need top players. Rooney ain't that anymore.

 

[Sam]

The phone-in on Talksport now is that Adrian Durham thinks Rooney is back to his best. That's asking for trouble.

I think I'm going to have a breakdown.

 

[Sky1981]

90% of the time, where did you get that information from?

He didnt win any header last game, he pass to the opposition 12 times. Feel free to watch the game again and correct me if im wrong.

God forbid if it was the back 4 doing that every game we'd have been relegated.

And this is not an isolation of bad game, he has been this bad the whole season.

Can you simply accept that he's that shit without needing to label everyone saying the obvious as rooney hate brigade.

Even darmian has better passing than him, nobody in the team are so inept at keeping possession more than him, the closest you get is memphis, at least he lost the ball trying to dribble. Rooney loss the ball very cheaply as if he's playing for everton.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The phone-in on Talksport now is that Adrian Durham thinks Rooney is back to his best. That's asking for trouble.

No. It's asking for people to get wound up and phone Talksport to rant. You know, the way that station makes its money?

 

[NessunDorma]

he's suddenly the golden boy who can do no wrong.

Where on Earth does this persistently expressed idea come from? Because it certainly doesn't come from the media itself.

Granted he has his admirers among the sports writing fraternity - and he's been a fantastic and successful player, so why shouldn't he have? - but he gets plenty of criticism as well.

Here's The Mirror's John Cross calling for him to be dropped from the England team a couple of weeks ago (apparently Sturridge and Welbeck should be starting ahead of him).

Here's The Telegraph's chief football writer, Jason Burt, basically saying England are better without Rooney, and he should be dropped.

Here's a recent article from ESPN's Iain Mcintosh talking about 'Rooney's decline', and how 'there's a growing sense that England are a better team without him'.

Here's the Manchester Evening New's Stuart Mathieson arguing he should be stripped of the captaincy.

All of these articles are from the *last few weeks* alone, and the list is by no means exhaustive.

Indeed, this idea that he's some untouchable golden boy with a coterie of deluded apologists surrounding him is ironic, given that it's become just one more stick with which his many critics try to beat him with.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

No. It's asking for people to get wound up and phone Talksport to rant. You know, the way that station makes its money?

It's working. Everyone saying it's a heads gone moment. Durham actually said he was brilliant.