[Joga Bonito]

Last run was the great ball from Martial from a full back position all the way up to Rooney I believe? He did offer some runs in the game that was great to see even if they have to be taken with a pinch of salt as Everton were some goals down which makes it a lot easier to attack. His runs were good against Everton though once we were ahead and had space to attack. Over longer distances he still looks pretty quick even if Jagielka was quicker for that one chance from Martial.

I think the worst moment for me was when he was free against one or two defenders and decided to shoot from the right hand side from 35-40 yards away almost like he had no confidence at all in creating something real.

Yup, that was the one. He did well to breach their offside trap/lose his marker but yeah, your point is a valid one in that Everton were behind and needed to get back into the game, which gave him more space to work with.

 

[Laphroaig]

It was a routine finish. The type of thing you see him do all the time. Sat the keeper down and clipped it over time. Certainly wasn't bad keeping. It was a good, composed finish.

Honestly the goal puzzled me too. Howard hasn't committed when Rooney looks up then down again. The only argument I can see is that Rooney looked left to fool Howard, but he has his eye on the ball again before he knows that Howard fell for it. Maybe I'll give Rooney the benefit of the doubt, but I still feel it's really poor by Howard.

 

[NessunDorma]

Honestly the goal puzzled me too. Howard hasn't committed when Rooney looks up then down again. The only argument I can see is that Rooney looked left to fool Howard, but he has his eye on the ball again before he knows that Howard fell for it. Maybe I'll give Rooney the benefit of the doubt, but I still feel it's really poor by Howard.

If Martial had scored it, we simply *would not* be having this conversation. It would be regarded as a tidy little finish, and that would be that.

 

[Sam]

Where on Earth does this persistently expressed idea come from? Because it certainly doesn't come from the media itself.

Granted he has his admirers among the sports writing fraternity - and he's been a fantastic and successful player, so why shouldn't he have? - but he gets plenty of criticism as well.

Here's The Mirror's John Cross calling for him to be dropped from the England team a couple of weeks ago (apparently Sturridge and Welbeck should be starting ahead of him).

Here's The Telegraph's chief football writer, Jason Burt, basically saying England are better without Rooney, and he should be dropped.

Here's a recent article from ESPN's Iain Mcintosh talking about 'Rooney's decline', and how 'there's a growing sense that England are a better team without him'.

Here's the Manchester Evening New's Stuart Mathieson arguing he should be stripped of the captaincy.

All of these articles are from the *last few weeks* alone, and the list is by no means exhaustive.

Indeed, this idea that he's some untouchable golden boy with a coterie of deluded apologists surrounding him is ironic, given that it's become just one more stick with which his many critics try to beat him with.

Fair enough, I didn't see any of those as I very rarely see any papers thesedays. The TV media generally seem to refuse to criticise him though. Good to see he's getting the criticism he deserves from some sections of the press.

 

[Black Adder]

Well you'd expect a striker playing for a top level team to be able to do the basics like controlling the ball, most times would you not? It certainly shouldn't be this complete lottery where you just haven't got a clue where the ball will end up when its played to Rooney.

Players like Suarez, Neymar, Benzema, Aguero don't have this problem. Most times their touch will be excellence, hence why they are top players. Even our very own Martial has shown up how bad Rooney is these days. He's simply not good enough anymore for a top level team. If we aspire to be among the best in Europe again, we need top players. Rooney ain't that anymore.

So this 90% is completely made up? Nice to see that kind of objectivity on the Caf. Oh and I know he's not good enough for what United needs up-front but that doesn't mean I'm going to making up informations just to fit my agenda. He had decent match against Everton with noticable contribution, don't think anyone can deny that apart from few people who won't give him any credit whatsoever.

He didnt win any header last game, he pass to the opposition 12 times. Feel free to watch the game again and correct me if im wrong.

God forbid if it was the back 4 doing that every game we'd have been relegated.

And this is not an isolation of bad game, he has been this bad the whole season.

Can you simply accept that he's that shit without needing to label everyone saying the obvious as rooney hate brigade.

Even darmian has better passing than him, nobody in the team are so inept at keeping possession more than him, the closest you get is memphis, at least he lost the ball trying to dribble. Rooney loss the ball very cheaply as if he's playing for everton.

Where did I call anyone rooney hate brigade? As I stated he's been poor this season more often than not, I'm not blind to see how poor he is at times, but also if he does something good then I'll give him credit for that, you should try that as well.

 

[Jazz]

I'm disappointed that he didn't screw the white ball back, with a touch of left-hand side.

It's Rooney playing for us mate - not Ronnie O'Sullivan

 

[Jazz]

It's working. Everyone saying it's a heads gone moment. Durham actually said he was brilliant.

I don't listen to this. Are united fans calling in and blasting Durham for his comment?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I don't listen to this. Are united fans calling in and blasting Durham for his comment?

Yes. Other clubs fans as well. They have gone completely over the top about Wayne, yes it was better but nowhere near the standard we need from him.

 

[sunama]

Tbh I've been critizing his performances since the start of the season (hard not to), but the game against Everton he played slightly above average. Nothing exceptional but he was decent.
Which like someone said, is about the top level we'll see from him now.

Agreed 100%.
If he can continue playing like he did 2 days ago, then I'll have no complaints.

For those expecting a captain's innings - this is unlikely to happen. The performance against Everton is as good as it gets.
And given that he is undroppable, we should be thankful that he isn't too bad, but merely average.

 

[Laphroaig]

If Martial had scored it, we simply *would not* be having this conversation. It would be regarded as a tidy little finish, and that would be that.

Quasi-psychic stuff like that is so tedious. I'm talking about a very specific event and I have no interest in your little feud. I know Pogue has played as a gk a bit so his opinion on Howard could be interesting.

 

[Fergus' son]

If I was Rooney fan I would actually be ashamed of even mentioning Martial here.

You only support certain Manchester United players then? How strange.

 

[Jazz]

Yes. Other clubs fans as well. They have gone completely over the top about Wayne, yes it was better but nowhere near the standard we need from him.

Should have known ABUs wouldn't miss this opportunity to slate a United player

Seriously though, they (Durham & Co) need to be more realistic. It was good that he scored for sure, which I'm obviously happy about - but the rest of Wayne's game is nothing to shout about at the moment. It's madness to 'over' praise him - otherwise he'll never accept or face up to his current limitations.

 

[NessunDorma]

Quasi-psychic stuff like that is so tedious.

It's true, though. And while you may only be interested in it as an isolated event, the only reason the subject came up in the first place is because some were trying to paint it as a fluky finish that didn't warrant any praise.

 

[Fergus' son]

But then i've openly criticised his all around performances - or at least some of them. I was just saying that his scoring ratio isn't 'that bad', because it isn't.

Some people absolutely will not tolerate even vaguely positive things being said about him at the moment, though, and so are taking issue with what are basic facts.

Indeed.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Apart from that time renown pace merchant, post-ACL recovery, 33 year old Phil Jagielka gave him 3 yards head start and still got back at him?
He's better on the break, good is pushing it.

Jagielka is an excellent athlete and very fast at sprinting back.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Honestly the goal puzzled me too. Howard hasn't committed when Rooney looks up then down again. The only argument I can see is that Rooney looked left to fool Howard, but he has his eye on the ball again before he knows that Howard fell for it. Maybe I'll give Rooney the benefit of the doubt, but I still feel it's really poor by Howard.

I think he shaped to put it in the far corner, then opened his body at the last moment to lift it into the near post instead. Howards's a quality keeper. He won't dive out of the way unless there's an element deception.

 

[Minimalist]

There was a whole thread on it, another where 138 people also said he isn't a United legend. The potential all-time leading scorer not a club legend? Yeah, not personal at all.

Well yeah, anyone saying he's not a 'legend' is being silly. His goals guarantee him that status, never mind the PL titles and CL wins. Also part of the best football United have played since 2000, in the period of 2006-09.

I did however question if he's in the top 10 best players to play for Manchester United - which was met with anger despite it being a pretty fair position given how many great players we've had at the club.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Apart from that time renown pace merchant, post-ACL recovery, 33 year old Phil Jagielka gave him 3 yards head start and still got back at him?

He's better on the break, good is pushing it.

I sense sarcasm in this post.

For the record, Jagielka was logged as he fastest player in the PL in November last year.

 

[Skills]

I never quite realised how reliant he was on his pace in his younger years. I randomly came across a video of our game at Goodison in 2007 in that 4-2 win - the last time he scored there before this weekend. Poor touches, careless is still all there but he was electric back then constantly buzzing around at top speed.

His striking ability is probably still there but he's just too slow to get into position to get off a decent shot. Same happened to Gerrard, the trademark screamers stopped when his pace as he was too slow to get into position for them.

 

[rotherham_red]

Rooney's passing compared to the league's other big name strikers:

I may be wrong, but the other four don't pass back to the midfield or defence anywhere near as much as Rooney does, so obviously the stats would be inflated in his favour. The others are very much forward-facing as strikers, whereas Rooney has tended to pass back and sideways more often than not.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Is he really being criticised for the finish? He put it in the net, you don't get points for style.

 

[Amar__]

You only support certain Manchester United players then? How strange.

I meant fanboy, obviously.

 

[Laphroaig]

I think he shaped to put it in the far corner, then opened his body at the last moment to lift it into the near post instead. Howards's a quality keeper. He won't dive out of the way unless there's an element deception.

Fair enough.

 

[acnumber9]

I don't think there's single poster here claiming he's back or that he had a great game, even those who give him some credit for performance still acknowladge he played good but in patches, not for an entire match.

He made few smart runs behind defence, one resulting in him scoring (being in the right position), he did hold up ball, passed it to Scheweini before Herrera scored (holding up ball), and he did set up clear chance to Martial which Martial didn't score (passing to teammate), not enough?




He did try to win header which prevented their defender of clearing the ball and 2 sec later Morgan scored, if not I doubt their defender would miss clear header and gave ball to Smalling. He also did hold up ball with defender behind him, gave it to Schweini, made a run to the box dragging Stones slightly out of postion which Herrera used and scored. Now that aren't clear assists but it's something, not like he stood still while everyone else played their part.

You're stretching really badly. He fouled their player on the first goal and got away with it. Him running is the least he can do. Everyone is involved in all our goals if you're going to those extremes.

 

[Kraftwerker]

How many goals do people reckon he'll get this season?

6 so far isn't too shabby. He is our top scorer. Though 3 in one game against weaker opposition.

On course for at least 20 (the pre Ronaldo-Messi tally of a decent striker). But whether he hits that is another matter.

 

[bosnian_red]

How many goals do people reckon he'll get this season?

6 so far isn't too shabby. He is our top scorer. Though 3 in one game against weaker opposition.

On course for at least 20 (the pre Ronaldo-Messi tally of a decent striker). But whether he hits that is another matter.

Can definitely see him maintaining a 0.4-0.5 goals per game record over the course of the season, which isn't bad at all and what he's always done. Doubt he'll go through a 10 game drought again this season, but then again he might not get a hat trick like he did against Brugges to inflate the stats a bit. You could argue he should probably be on 8-10 this season with the sitters he's missed. If he stays in decent form then he should end with over 20 goals for the season I'd say, which would be enough to give him the record.

 

[finneh]

How many goals do people reckon he'll get this season?

6 so far isn't too shabby. He is our top scorer. Though 3 in one game against weaker opposition.

On course for at least 20 (the pre Ronaldo-Messi tally of a decent striker). But whether he hits that is another matter.

He'll get 20 goals by sheer quantity of games and chances created (maybe 0.4 a game) - he should have comfortably had 2 against Everton for example. Though I have a feeling he'll continue to score the bulk of goals in games that are already won and/or against a lower standard of opposition.

The question won't be his statistical goal contribution - but his overall in game contribution, which I don't see improving.

 

[Black Adder]

You're stretching really badly. He fouled their player on the first goal and got away with it. Him running is the least he can do. Everyone is involved in all our goals if you're going to those extremes.

Yet that faul led to the mistake from defender which resulted in Uniteds goal, should have said to ref himself that it was faul if he was proper captain. Yep, De Gea shouted to Rooney "jump" but he was so far away that only Rojo heard it, and said to Jones, who yelled it to Schweini and after all 10 players heard magic word, finally Rooney jumped and made faul that led to the goal, you're right about everyone being involved because no way he would do something like that on his own.

 

[acnumber9]

Yet that faul led to the mistake from defender which resulted in Uniteds goal, should have said to ref himself that it was faul if he was proper captain. Yep, Dea Gea shouted to Rooney "jump" but he was so far away that only Rojo heard it, and said to Jones, who yelled it to Schweini and after all 10 players heard magic word, finally Rooney jumped and made faul that led to the goal, you're right about everyone being involved because no way he would do something like that on his own.

Well we had to do the work to get the corner in the first place didn't we? You're right though. Rooney's foul and running were key elements to our goals and evidence that he anyone saying he wasn't great should be flamed at the stake.

 

[djembatheking]

Yet that faul led to the mistake from defender which resulted in Uniteds goal, should have said to ref himself that it was faul if he was proper captain. Yep, De Gea shouted to Rooney "jump" but he was so far away that only Rojo heard it, and said to Jones, who yelled it to Schweini and after all 10 players heard magic word, finally Rooney jumped and made faul that led to the goal, you're right about everyone being involved because no way he would do something like that on his own.

Sounds like a cunning plan Blackadder .

 

[Tosicsleftpeg]

Shown improvement which is good for us as he obviously will never be dropped. He's definitely on the decline though I want sure at first but it's clear to see he's amere shadow of his former self even at 29.

 

[Black Adder]

Well we had to do the work to get the corner in the first place didn't we? You're right though. Rooney's foul and running were key elements to our goals and evidence that he anyone saying he wasn't great should be flamed at the stake.

Again, as said in response to other poster already, who said he was great in that match? Decent at best but with noticable contribution, is that so hard to acknowledge?

Sounds like a cunning plan Blackadder .

It was cunning plan as a fox who's..., well you know the rest

 

[lem8sh]

Watched the whole game again on MUTV last night. It seemed to be everytime a move broke down it was because of Rooney. His passing has gone to pot.

According to Garth Crooks it's Ander and the new players we have bought having to learn LvG's system that is making Wayne play so badly.

 

[acnumber9]

Again, as said in response to other poster already, who said he was great in that match? Decent at best but with noticable contribution, is that so hard to acknowledge?





It was cunning plan as a fox who's..., well you know the rest

No. That's why I already acknowledged it after the game. Crediting him with being involved in two goals was stretching for reasons to defend him. His own mother would struggle to have come up with that.

 

[clarkydaz]

So Rooney has been kind enough to wait for others to play well, to show him up. What is it these media people are actually defending, simply the England captain?

 

[Americano]

So Rooney has been kind enough to wait for others to play well, to show him up. What is it these media people are actually defending, simply the England captain?

It sounds like a bit of Stockholm Syndrome from Herrera, especially with his recent quote about The Great Captain:

Wayne is our leader. He is the best English player in English history and we are lucky to have him. When he fights like he did today we can be very proud of him. He has always helped me a lot.

 

[NextSeason]

It sounds like a bit of Stockholm Syndrome from Herrera, especially with his recent quote about The Great Captain:

You know there could be a reason his teammates, manager, opposition players/mangers appreciate him?

 

[ivaldo]

You know there could be a reason his teammates, manager, opposition players/mangers appreciate him?

He's a nice bloke?

 

[iBoss]

What does this even mean? Rooney's playing poor on purpose?

 

[lem8sh]

What does this even mean? Rooney's playing poor on purpose?

Feck knows, it's Garth Crooks.