If you feel you have a case for Rooney being the genius of world football and not just a flat track bully by all means refer to his performance highlights against the top sides in international tournaments - I'm all ears dumbo (see what I did there? Hilarious)
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter gooDevil
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You've created a timescale which perfectly fits your agenda. The problem is no one has an issue with Wayne Rooney the footballer 2004-2012, pushing 2013. He's performed at a generally good level throughout his United career there is very little doubting that. What anyone can argue is that when comparing him to the best players in the world, Rooney has always been in the shadow of the best...when the likes of Ronaldinho, Kaka, Ronaldo and Messi were picking up awards.
I suppose it's similar to Giggs. For 20+ years he was always a consistent performer and always a Manchester United starter, but he had very few seasons where you would say he was one of the absolute best in the world because in his prime the likes of Nedved, Figo, Rivaldo and Zidane were some of the best in attacking positions in the world. And yet he's made just short of 1000 appearances for United. With Rooney, perhaps there aren't many players who have scored 200 in 400 for one club in 10 years but there have always been better players out there who you would consider 'world best' material - which is the subject of this little debate which started earlier.
Rooney has a level. His level is good to very good...not this world class, amazing, top 3 player reputation he seems to possess. Once upon a time he was nearly there, but he's fallen away massively from that 'top top' level.
I have given up trying to defend Wayne. Even if he scored 1000 goals in a game, people would still find a way to bring him down.
It is not fair.
Splendid assist yesterday, and a bright performance from all of England's fluid front four. It was a shame the midfield behind them was abominable, and the defence third-rate.
It is not fair.
Splendid assist yesterday, and a bright performance from all of England's fluid front four. It was a shame the midfield behind them was abominable, and the defence third-rate.
Achievement is subjective but here goes anyway Drogba, Eto'o, Zlatan, Henry, Van Nistelrooy.All better players than Wayne Rooney for me even if injuries disrupted Van Nistelrooy (he was also playing in a much weaker Man Utd). Obviously it's all open for interpretation.
johnmufc said:
Hooray!
johnmufc said:
Tbf, that 1001st chance was a sitter.
Your original post didn't mentioned international football at all. He has carried us many times in the past. Throughout the 09/10 season and halfway of 10/11 season come straight to my mind. I can give more examples but I don't want to spend more time explaining something to a person who's still bitter over something which happened ten years ago and clearly lacks the intelligence to understand football.
Which player who's on 476k per day just has to take.
I was really disappointed in Wayne's performance last night. He's such a talent, but he hasn't reached the heights that he should have done. Was really hoping he'd be back to his best for the World Cup, striking fear into the Italian side and making things happen everytime he gets on the ball.
Wasn't to be, he had an ok game, but for a player as talented as he is, he really needed to deliver much more on the big stage. He could still turn it on against Uruguay, but I personally don't think Wayne will step up and become a true great in terms of world football - he'll always be just a very, very good player.
Wasn't to be, he had an ok game, but for a player as talented as he is, he really needed to deliver much more on the big stage. He could still turn it on against Uruguay, but I personally don't think Wayne will step up and become a true great in terms of world football - he'll always be just a very, very good player.
It's always someone else's fault.... Are you sure your not scouse? Although I agree he wasn't as bad as some are making out but try to argue he was any better than average and you are very mistaken
I hope LVG replaces him with a fag machine on wheels.
Rooney May not mind but strettford sure as hell would and we all know Wayne cant fart without that sleaze bag okaying it
Assist for yesterdays goal.....Plays for the biggest club in the world......
There are a few with similar goal scoring record to Rooney.
David Villa for one was head and shoulders above Rooney. His record with a Valencia (worse team than United teams Rooney played in) is second to none. Then there's a small matter of him being Spain's top scorer in both Euros 2008 and WC 2010.
Then you have other players who might not be head and shoulders above Rooney necessarily but have a very good record in the last 8-10 years: Ibra, Higuain and even Torres between 2001 and 2011.
He's never developed the way I thought he would. He's an excellent player no doubt but hes not in the same class as RVP
Achievement isn't subjective, think its fact isn't it? Trophies, goals, assists? Like I said players currently playing. Are you suggesting that Drogba and Eto are currently better than Rooney? Zlatan I'd give you.
It is a half chance it's certainly not an open goal.
Here's the original post lad:
"Other evertonians will lynch me for this but the best thing Rooney ever did for himself was join Utd he produces in a GOOD team but isn't a game changer if the team is cack. Even watching him on TV he'd score then wander around taking a breather which is fine at Utd surrounded by the Giggs, Scholes' of this world who can carry him. But for an average England outfit against the elite he just looks fecked."
I've emboldened the England bit because as mentioned earlier your sight seems obscured by the danglies. Alternatively your just a no account dullard absolutely full to the brim of shite.
You are a complete bluffer lad this thread runs to 824 pages, you'll find an even split pro and anti Rooney so don't come on here flat out bullshitting claiming things are clear when evidently they're not.
Time-wasting tit.
And they are achievements are they?
That's a stupid way of comparing since they're not all the same age isn't it ? Take them at the same age, same state of their careers.
No I haven't, the 10 seasons represent how long he's been here. No one can argue he's not been overshadowed at times but its like saying a boxer was only overshadowed by Ali. Its hardly a criticism when we are taking about less than 1% of players in the last 20 years. Is that a failure? The players you make reference to I'm not sure were forwards either....
This thread is disgusting, so much shit being spouted it's a joke.
So playing for Utd isnt....Really? I give up
Kouroux I never missed the word anymore, but are you saying Rooney has declined that much in what half a season?
I give up.....lets never ever compare players again on the forum!!!
Not just based on the last half season obviously but he's been declining for several years, he'll have some good to great periods in the mean time but overall he's clearly declining (he's scoring less, he's slower, more inconsistent, less energetic)
Well at least we have established he's achieving as much in world football as Fellaini and Ashley Young at the moment.
Suit yourself.
A lot of sense in this post Ash but for me Rooney criticism is unfair. Shearer was way ott. Wayne was top goal scorer in the groups being stuck out wide left is not great what kind of performance did the media expect him to have from out there. I find it sad that Rooney will be judged in world cups that he's been injured in or played out of position.
Playing left wing is a valid excuse in my book.
Pretty much. Fergie had it exactly right with setting him up to be sold. I think we have a clearly better striker in Van Persie - who will remain at his top level and more effective longer than Wayne will - and better suited players in Mata/Kagawa for a role in behind. Not to say that's the end of him, as you say there will be periods and extended runs of form, but Wayne does not have the consistency to be first choice for either of those positions anymore versus the competition. Unpopular opinion maybe, but for me we just have more reliable players who don't have the same devastatingly poor bottom level as him.
All pro or anti-Rooney bias aside, I'd just be interested in seeing how we'd play without him.
A few have but I agree with you in that he is up with the top players over the last decade. There has been no decline he has just not improved as much as everybody thought/hoped he would. He still a great player and I'd have him over Sturridge any day.
There has been very clear decline I believe. He is a worse player now than around 2006-10 quite surely, I am not sure which aspect of his game has improved since then.
Not a Rooney fan personally but this seems sensible. The guy has copped disproportionate amounts of abuse throughout his career despite being a very good player in his own right. It's not his fault that the media branded him the "White Pele" and a bastion for his national team. The amount of pressure such expectations bring along is insane and TBF I can empathise with him. Having said that I'd much rather United jettison Rooney for the sake of team harmony and tactical balance but we must be thankful for what he's added to the club in terms of quality and decade long service despite the tantrums and ill-advised contract shenanigans.
I realise that I'm prone to blaming the media for everything from leprosy to my lack of winning scratch cards but...along with the national team, Wayne suffers from bipolar media coverage (which leads to fans' sometimes-ridiculous attitudes for & against him).
It can't always be an excuse, he still needs to show a good level even when out of position. Maybe not his best level then, but a good one still if he is a really good player.
Especially at international level, it's not unusual for players to play out of position. Iniesta for example has been playing on the left for Spain for ages to accomodate Xavi/Xabi Alonso/Busquets in the middle, but has still managed to be one of Spain's best performers in all those years, at times even THE best.
This. And I feel Van Gaal if he decides Rooney isn't in his plans he needs to show fans and basically the media that we can live without Rooney, similar to how Mourinho did with Mata he wasn't going to come into the club and sell their best player that would raise to many eye brows and concerns despite him not being central to his plans.
People keep saying he was played out of position, which is true, and stupid. But the real question is, why was he played out of position? If Rooney was really that good, how can he not even get into the England team in either of his two favoured positions? Surely that alone is proof that he's not the player he once was? Rather then building the team around him, England are now having to shoehorn him into the team just to get him in there. And its not like England are exactly a team full of world beaters.
Putting all bias and emotions about Rooney aside, its actually quite sad to see how its all turned out. If you look back to when he burst onto the scene and then his first few seasons here, you could see all that talent and potential he had, but its just never really happened for him. He hasn't kicked on to the levels we expected. He's had periods of brilliance, but then he'd inevitably drop off, get injured, or both. 2010 was probably the only fully consistent season he's had right at the top level, and since then, he's just been slowly getting worse. Its now got to a point where, if we're being brutally honest, the best balanced England team probably doesn't feature him. And if it does, its only by a whisker.
Putting all bias and emotions about Rooney aside, its actually quite sad to see how its all turned out. If you look back to when he burst onto the scene and then his first few seasons here, you could see all that talent and potential he had, but its just never really happened for him. He hasn't kicked on to the levels we expected. He's had periods of brilliance, but then he'd inevitably drop off, get injured, or both. 2010 was probably the only fully consistent season he's had right at the top level, and since then, he's just been slowly getting worse. Its now got to a point where, if we're being brutally honest, the best balanced England team probably doesn't feature him. And if it does, its only by a whisker.
I think it is somewhat different when you are Striker than an attacking mid to be able to play anywhere across midfield.
I however do find it perculiar that many will now talk about Rooney being shunted out wide affecting his performance, however when we talk about Welbeck it is not a valid excuse.
For me a Striker needs to be able to play centrally without defensive responsibility in order to get the best out of them.
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