Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

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kouroux said:
I'm not comparing him to them, he had the potential to become better than all of them but he hasn't and probably won't ever.He's clearly some level below Xavi and Iniesta for instance.
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He is below Xavi and Iniesta yes, but the names of players you bought up when thinking of who else bar Messi/Ronaldo are comparable are flattering at least.
 
Where it all went wrong for Wayne Rooney
Wayne Rooney needs a friend right now, and after last night’s defeat to Italy he might find some sympathy from an unexpected source. Paul Scholes, whose accurate assessment of Rooney’s career arc inadvertently sparked the excessive vitriol to which Rooney is currently subject, knows all about the frustration of being shunted to the left wing in a major tournament to make way for younger, more media-friendly talents.

Scholes retired from international football at the age of 29 after four games on the left at Euro 2004, exasperated by the cultural vandalism that was Sven-Goran Eriksson’s decision to pick Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard ahead of him in centre midfield. Rooney, 29 in October, might be worried that his move to the wing is Roy Hodgson’s equivalent of a text message saying “we need to talk”.

That may not be the case; either way, Rooney’s career was not supposed to play out like this. If you said, while he marauding thrillingly through Euro 2004, that Rooney would never score a goal at a World Cup you would have been laughed or punched out of the pub. Yet that is now a significant possilbilty. In those days Rooney was a peer of Cristiano Ronaldo. In fact he comfortably outperformed Ronaldo at Manchester United in the 2004-05 and 2005-06 seasons. But Ronaldo overtook Rooney thereafter and now they live in different worlds.

It is strange that it took Scholes’ questioning of Rooney to highlight his limitations. He has not played particularly well for Manchester United since the autumn of 2011, and his contribution last season was woefully overplayed, a manifestation of the damaging cult of the England superstar that pervades the media. Inevitably, such is the way of things in this country, the failure to recognise Rooney’s modest form has now been replaced by an excessive, almost unpleasant opprobrium. In no country does the bandwagon go from 0-60 as quickly.

Rooney’s performance was mixed last night, as you’d expect for someone played out of position. His cross for Daniel Sturridge’s goal was outstanding, but he missed a good chance – the sort of chance he takes all the time when his mind is at his peace – and gave trolls more ammunition when he shanked a corner straight out of play. He also struggled defensively, though this is no surprise; for all Rooney’s eye-catching defensive endeavour, he lacks the positional intelligence to do an important defensive job. He arguably lacks the selflessness too.

We still cling to the notion of Rooney as selfless team player, justly engendered by some beyond-the-call work earlier in his career, yet in recent times he has made clear his distaste for playing on the wing. Rooney will argue that he has done his time and has earned the right to play where he wants; others will say his performances are not good enough to justify such status, especially with the emergence of Sturridge and Raheem Stirling.

Rooney’s defensive indiscipline is the reason he did not play in the hole in either leg against Real Madrid in Sir Alex Ferguson’s last season at Manchester United. Ferguson wanted someone to shadow Xabi Alonso, and Rooney had failed in the role against Sergio Busquets in the 2011 Champions League final. Against Real he played on the right wing in the first leg and was dropped for the second.

He may have rationalised his increasing marginalisation in Ferguson’s last season as the act of a vindictive man who was settling scores for Rooney’s transfer request in 2010. He may have told himself that Ferguson fell out with many great players, that it said nothing about Rooney. But when somebody like Hodgson does it as well, there is one inescapable conclusion: Rooney is not as good as he and his disciples think he is.

Rooney has taken a lot of kicks in the last few years. He is far from blameless – his fitness is not what it could be and there is a sense of an entitlement based on past achievements rather than current form – but he also deserves some sympathy. Whoever is to blame, Rooney is now in what may be an inescapable cycle of slights and sulks. He will feel everyone has it in for him: Ferguson, Hodgson, the English media, the English public, Scholes, even Dame Fortune. That is an excessive view of course but it does not mean the essential point should be discounted.

Of more relevance to English football than the rights and wrongs are the potential impact. Rooney is more vulnerable than is often realised; more than most footballers, he desperately needs to be loved. When he is not, he retreats into a state of affronted confusion rather than using the opprobrium as fuel. A red card against Uruguay is a decent outside bet.

Some people say Rooney was never world-class. This is poppycock. For most of the time between 2004 and 2011 he was a magnificent player, a force of nature with a combination of Diego Maradona-style bronca and beautiful technique. At his best, he was awesome. Yet something died in Rooney in the winter of 2011. He started that season outstandingly, scoring back-to-back hat-tricks and looking like a father figure for an emerging young side. Then he was sent off in a Euro 2012 qualifier in Macedonia and his career has never quite recovered.

He has lost much of the youthful fire and will that was an essential part of his success; even more troublingly, his touch has declined to an alarming extent. The days of Rooney charging past three players, or slipping a pass through the eye of the needle, have almost gone. Last night’s assist was excellent but it was not the kind of subtle pass that defined Rooney’s peak years.

On the face of it these are Rooney’s peak years. He is 28, but that is less relevant than the fact he has played over 600 games and nearly 50,000 minutes in his career. For all the high-profile injuries before the last two World Cups, he has not missed many games in the last 12 years. He has a huge number of miles on the clock, is naturally heavy and treats his body not so much as a temple as a dilapidated warehouse; he once admitted to returning for pre-season training seven pounds overweight.

The number of games Rooney has played means he is close to two significant records: record scorer for both England and Manchester United. Apparently they mean a lot to him, yet deep down he knows they cannot compensate for a career that has lost its way. He probably thought he was getting back on track when David Moyes built his side around him, with the captaincy set to follow when Nemanja Vidic left. Now Louis van Gaal is due to arrive with completely different ideas. Robin van Persie will be captain – Rooney may be the only man connected with United who did not get high on the high five between van Persie and Can Gaal - and Rooney’s touch may not be good enough to satisfy Van Gaal’s expectations of a No. 10, if he even plays with one.

Rooney was not just played out of position last night; he has been playing out of position for a couple of years. He has inadvertently evolved into a No. 9, a generally accomplished finisher and an efficient, almost frill-free footballer who is no relation of Rooney the No. 10. Playing right up front is now palpably his best role, yet to take it he has to displace either Van Persie or Sturridge. That is not going to happen.

He is probably not going to displace Sterling either. Hodgson has to consider whether an out-of-position Rooney offers more than, say, Adam Lallana. On paper the answer is probably yes, because of his experience and residual skill, though this not take into account the obviously dispiriting effect playing wide has on Rooney and the potential impact of that.

The next few months, with England and Manchester United, are of scary importance for Rooney. He is not helped by the climate of the media and social media, and will feel pretty alone today. As he watched Sterling play in the hole with the skill, arrogance and fearlessness he can no longer summon, Rooney may have felt like a man out of time.
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Nice piece.
 
markhrad said:
" There are none so blind as those who will not see". No matter how badly he performs, although yesterday he was ok, people will always find an excuse for Rooney. Its the manager playing him out of position or the players around him not good enough.
He is credited with intelligence, positional awareness and technical skill without obvious corroborative evidence.
There are number of former players, if given the same number of years at Utd as Rooney, that would score an equal if not more number of goals. Check their goals per game ratios.
I guess it must be mass hysteria caused by prolonged media hyperbole. Well that same media is rapidly turning against him and will soon find some other player for the deluded to follow.
Look at all the great players in the world currently. Look at their technical ability, especially close ball control. Do you really see Rooney displaying comparative skills? Yesterday even with two men on him Pirlo was able to make lovely short passes.
What is it exactly about Rooney that makes some think he is so great? Please don't say his passion and work-rate I am talking about skill pure and simple
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Will someone please give me an answer.
 
I am probably his biggest hater here but I still don't get the latest hate he gets for England. It seems like England fans have decided to blame every Manchester United player every time they lose a game, and majority of Manchester United have turned against their players too, even though there were 2 Manchester United players on the pitch last night who were nothing worse than 9 other players on the pitch.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
He is below Xavi and Iniesta yes, but the names of players you bought up when thinking of who else bar Messi/Ronaldo are comparable are flattering at least.
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They are and there are many more I did not even bother to post, Rooney is a good player and will have a great career by the time he retires no doubt, it also feels like a little bit of a waste too.
 
Amar__ said:
I am probably his biggest hater here but I still don't get the latest hate he gets for England. It seems like England fans have decided to blame every Manchester United player every time they lose a game, and majority of Manchester United have turned against their players too, even though there were 2 Manchester United players on the pitch last night who were nothing worse than 9 other players on the pitch.
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imo the Joe Hart was worse yesterday, he had some blame in both goals.
 
markhrad said:
Will someone please give me an answer.
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Rooney doesn't really have any great heights in terms of attributes, he isn't fast, not a great passer but at the same time he isn't necessarily bad at any attribute either. So with his work-rate, stamina and overall abilities he is a good striker a lot like Diego Costa, I'd still say they are still worse than RVP, Zlatan, Aguero, Cavani, Falcao, Messi and Lewandowski.
 
Would it not be better for England to play Rooney up top and Sturridge on the left?

--------Welbeck----Sterling----Sturridge
--------------------Rooney
 
Silverman said:
Would it not be better for England to play Rooney up top and Sturridge on the left?

--------Welbeck----Sterling----Sturridge
--------------------Rooney
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He has been shit for them up front as well, and hasn't been the leading striker they need. You need to nail the few chances you get and that has never been Rooney's strength, he is quite inconsistent in that regard.

I don't see what the fourth "forward" adds at all here for them? The offense wasn't the issue yesterday it lead to chances to score against an Italy which means you can bet on chances to score against most teams.

What they need to do is to enhance the defense and midfield to be able to control the matches more and have a better link between offense and midfield which turned rather long as Gerrard didn't move enough.
 
It was such a poor decision by Hodgson. Rooney should only really be starting for England as a #9. He's not detrimental to the team's build-up play when he's playing in his best role. Sturridge, Sterling, and Welbeck all did well to link-up together, and that brings up the following question: who do you drop/move to fit Rooney in? I just don't understand why Hodgson would play him on the left, given his poor form and lack of confidence. Pat Nevin's analysis was spot on, but Rooney's defensive work has been average at best for a while now.

Saying that, however, the two central midfielders were poor. Also, I've not looked over Balotelli's goal, but I've seen Welbeck criticised for his role in the build-up to the goal. If that is the case - Welbeck being culpable - then I don't understand why his thread wasn't bumped. He had a good game, but he's not immune to criticism. Furthermore, why do people bring up personal details? They are of no business to us. It seems like the easiest way to degrade a player, but it says a lot about those highlighting the "flaws".
 
Annahnomoss said:
Rooney doesn't really have any great heights in terms of attributes, he isn't fast, not a great passer but at the same time he isn't necessarily bad at any attribute either. So with his work-rate, stamina and overall abilities he is a good striker a lot like Diego Costa, I'd still say they are still worse than RVP, Zlatan, Aguero, Cavani, Falcao, Messi and Lewandowski.
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That is my point Rooney is a good player but lacking in the skill level so as to be considered great.
You mention his work rate and stamina, although admirable and important they don't require technical skill.
 
Annahnomoss said:
He has been shit for them up front as well, and hasn't been the leading striker they need. You need to nail the few chances you get and that has never been Rooney's strength, he is quite inconsistent in that regard.

I don't see what the fourth "forward" adds at all here for them? The offense wasn't the issue yesterday it lead to chances to score against an Italy which means you can bet on chances to score against most teams.

What they need to do is to enhance the defense and midfield to be able to control the matches more and have a better link between offense and midfield which turned rather long as Gerrard didn't move enough.
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I agree. I feel sorry for Rooney because he just doesn't seem to be able to get himself to where he wants to be. I know he done well last season but the team suffered because he was in the #10 role which mainly allows him to play well as opposed to the entire team. I think the five year contract was a mistake made by United which was an effort to find a positive from a terrible season and I think he will continue to struggle for the years to come. I honestly think that United would be better off selling him because RVP will be Van Gaal's main striker and I don't think Rooney should be played anywhere but up front. I also think a new team would benefit Rooney especially if he could be the main striker and everyone would look upto him. I am sure Rooney wouldn't mind taking a pay cut to rejuvenate his career because the last few seasons have been hit or miss.
 
Silverman said:
I agree. I feel sorry for Rooney because he just doesn't seem to be able to get himself to where he wants to be. I know he done well last season but the team suffered because he was in the #10 role which mainly allows him to play well as opposed to the entire team. I think the five year contract was a mistake made by United which was an effort to find a positive from a terrible season and I think he will continue to struggle for the years to come. I honestly think that United would be better off selling him because RVP will be Van Gaal's main striker and I don't think Rooney should be played anywhere but up front. I also think a new team would benefit Rooney especially if he could be the main striker and everyone would look upto him. I am sure Rooney wouldn't mind taking a pay cut to rejuvenate his career because the last few seasons have been hit or miss.
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I agree with it. I believe he has a downhill route from here unfortunately like Scholes said from entering the first team so early. I would have sold him last year, I assume this year is our last chance before it gets apparent he won't reach the heights of the past again. His only chance is getting comfortable in a new position where he doesn't need dribbling and pace in the same way he does out wide or up front.
 
So I was just watching the World Cup show on SBS and Balague was on the show and said when he interviewed Sir Alex for questions for a piece on Gaurdiola and Fergie brought up Rooney and how he failed to do his off the ball job in both champions league finals against Barca.
 
Annahnomoss said:
I agree with it. I believe he has a downhill route from here unfortunately like Scholes said from entering the first team so early. I would have sold him last year, I assume this year is our last chance before it gets apparent he won't reach the heights of the past again. His only chance is getting comfortable in a new position where he doesn't need dribbling and pace in the same way he does out wide or up front.
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Exactly, I would have sold Rooney instead of giving him a new deal. I used to think a box-to-box midfield role might suit him but as you said his pace and dribbling will only get worse so that is kind of out of the question. Possibly a CDM role but I honestly think he doesn't have what it takes to become a full time midfielder. I see him continuing on as a striker and it all depends on what club he will be playing with as the years go by.
 
NMF said:
So I was just watching the World Cup show on SBS and Balague was on the show and said when he interviewed Sir Alex for questions for a piece on Gaurdiola and Fergie brought up Rooney and how he failed to do his off the ball job in both champions league finals against Barca.
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Really? In the defense or offense? Or both?
 
Silverman said:
Exactly, I would have sold Rooney instead of giving him a new deal. I used to think a box-to-box midfield role might suit him but as you said his pace and dribbling will only get worse so that is kind of out of the question. Possibly a CDM role but I honestly think he doesn't have what it takes to become a full time midfielder. I see him continuing on as a striker and it all depends on what club he will be playing with as the years go by.
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Unfortunately I see that being the case too. Scholes and Fergie both seemed to have wanted him to be more open minded about his position but he seems very strict on where he is played.
 
kouroux said:
Is this a serious question ? How about Zlatan, Villa,Henry, Eto'o, Xavi, Iniesta for starters ?
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I think we were talking about forwards otherwise we might as well compare him to Buffon, and also still playing otherwise might as well compare him to Pele....thought that was obvious?
 
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Annahnomoss said:
Unfortunately I see that being the case too. Scholes and Fergie both seemed to have wanted him to be more open minded about his position but he seems very strict on where he is played.
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Exactly, it'll be interesting to see what plans Van Gaal has for him.
 
Wilson Litchmore said:
I think we were talking about forwards otherwise we might as well compare him to Buffon, and also still playing otherwise might as well compare him to Pele....thought that was obvious?
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Somebody needed to make the precision but still with only strikers involved there have been many better than Rooney in the last 10 years.
 
kouroux said:
Somebody needed to make the precision but still with only strikers involved there have been many better than Rooney in the last 10 years.
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Ok in the last 10 years and currently still playing outside of the obvious Messi and Ronaldo, name 3 more fowards in world football, have achieved and still achieving in world football?
 
Not sure how people can put in an arguement for Rooney being played in his best position. Sturridge is a better number 9 and has scored more goals than Rooney in the last two years. You also cannot afford to play Rooney as a 10 at this level and Hodgson wasn't as stupid as Moyes to do that at the highest level. The only place for Rooney in the team is left mid, its as simple as that.

Many say, well Messi, Ronaldo, Van Persie etc are played in their best positions but thats because they're the best players in their position while Rooney isn't. Saying that though, i think people have been harsh on him. His assist for the England goal was superb.
 
markhrad said:
That is my point Rooney is a good player but lacking in the skill level so as to be considered great.
You mention his work rate and stamina, although admirable and important they don't require technical skill.
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Alan Shearer for England was considered to be world class and he didn't have any skill. Your just using your own barometer but its not applicable to everyone. There's not only one way to play football and no matter how skillful you are, forwards are paid to score goals.
 
James Redburn said:
Well you clearly have sight issues presumably it's that pair of bollocks hanging in front of your eyes.

If you can't state your case properly feck off.
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Why the feck do I need to state my case properly to something which is clearly stupid and is probably said by someone who's still bitter by Rooney's move to Us and knows feck all about football?
 
kouroux said:
I don't understand the question tbh.
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I'll spell it out to you. No point comparing him to players that either dont play in his position or are no longer playing otherwise we'll be here all day.

So given he still is playing, for the last 10 seasons, which current players who are also still playing have achieved what he has in this time playing centre forward, outside of the two best players in the world, Messi and Ronaldo?
 
Thinking about it, if Rooney had scored that chance and not had the awful corner he probably would've been voted man of the match. Pretty much just if a shot was a foot to the right.
 
KM said:
Why the feck do I need to state my case properly to something which is clearly stupid and is probably said by someone who's still bitter by Rooney's move to Us and knows feck all about football?
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It's like you think your idiocy is a gift.

The very notion of what debate is passes through your empty skull like desert winds disturbed only by tumbleweed.
 
James Redburn said:
It's like you think your idiocy is a gift.

The very notion of what debate is passes through your empty skull like desert winds disturbed only by tumbleweed.
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Oh, the bitterness.

No worries mate, keep on with the delusion.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Stopped reading. Wtf has that got to do with anything.
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If you had carried in reading you would have found out. I was trying to explain that I think he gets more criticism than his actual performances deserve because he is such a unlikable bloke and people have trouble separating the off field twat from the player
 
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