Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

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Kag said:
I've 'got' the Rooney thing for years now. When people were defending his right to play at #10 I was convinced that his best position was as striker and that he's predictable elsewhere. Only now are the majority coming round to that idea, but hey ho. "He scored 27 goals at #10, don't ya know!"

I agree about a few other players, but this thread isn't really the place to discuss them.
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This has been pretty obv for a while tbh. He is a very good striker though.
England should have adapted their formation coming into the tournament just like Holland, and worked on a system which would have created a strike partnership of Rooney & Sturridge with Sterling playing in behind them.
 
Kag said:
I've 'got' the Rooney thing for years now. When people were defending his right to play at #10 I was convinced that his best position was as striker and that he's predictable elsewhere. Only now are the majority coming round to that idea, but hey ho. "He scored 27 goals at #10, don't ya know!"

I agree about a few other players, but this thread isn't really the place to discuss them.
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Fair enough Kag but season in season out the man is up there with the top assists and goals scored club and country. He's no Messi or Ronaldo but he is the best player England have and to not play him properly (up top) is wasteful IMO. But then I was cheering Italy on so I was quite glad.
 
I think this is another Scholes situation, being played out of position to get him in the team. If I was him I would retire, which would make it easier for England chosing the side and he wouldn't get the blame for everything. However, unlike Scholes, I don't think Wayne will want to lose all the money being an England player earns him.
 
shaggy said:
He really isn't, get Barkley in the team and put Rooney in the has-been bin, we still don't know what his best position is and he's 28 ffs. Won't last five minutes under van Gaal.
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Yep he's 28 and set to become all time top goal scorer for united and England wonder where it all went wrong for him?? Barkley has played one full season don't believe the hype just yet he has a lot to live up to still.
 
He wasn't that bad, he has had worse performances in tournaments. But that alone says it all. He wasn't anything special, but hardly anyone was.
As far as critics are concerned, well he had no problems defending himself against Scholes after all, so I am sure he can deal with others as well and answer them in the childish way he answered in Scholes' case.

Although he annoys me more and more everytime he plays for United in an important game (he keeps giving away the ball, doesn't link up well with others anymore, ignores players who are in a better position to score, but instead shoots himself without actually scoring - which is fine enough against mediocre teams when you will get plenty of chances, but not against teams like Everton or Bayern, where you will only get 2-3 good chances), I still hope he finally gets a WC goal in this tournament.

Despite his antics and ridiculous contract renewal tactics not once but twice since 2010 (my biggest issue with this is not even the 250 k but the fact he talked down his teammates in 2010, that's a no go for me, even Ronaldo didn't do that) I would be happy for him if he has at least one WC goal in his career.
 
kouroux said:
What is nonsense ? That Rooney had a good first half and a not so good second half of the season ? Did Rooney play that well in the 2013-2014 season ? Enlighten me my friend as apparently I'm completely wrong.
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Hey Kouroux the bit I think your completely wrong was when you said he's just not that good anymore. I can't agree with that he's consistently year in year out one of United's top players.
 
Walrus said:
I would like to see how LvG uses Rooney for the first half of next season. Since we are not in Europe none of our players will be tied, and we can freely sell in January, if we want (in general, not just Rooney).

I am of the mind that Rooney just doesn't fit any system properly though, and it's been the way for a few years. When leading the line, he drops back too much - doesn't put enough pressure on the defenders, doesn't have enough pace to stretch the back line etc - this allows the opposition to push up and play a high line, pressuring our midfield.

Play Rooney as a #10? Can do but his technical ability isn't anywhere near the likes of Mata or Kagawa. He is wasteful, does not take players on and does not create enough in that role - he simply sprays passes out to the wingers.

There just isn't an obvious position for him, or a system to make use of his skillsets.

The closest I can think of would be a 3 man midfield, with someone like Carrick in the holding role, and then two of Mata, Kagawa, Rooney and Cleverley as the two more advanced players.
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This post is typical of people who don't see the wood for the trees.

Wayne tracks back and drops deep a lot, why?

He plays for two teams with largely ineffective midfields.

His side creates nothing apart from lumping crosses in the box if he doesn't drop deep and try and work the chances himself his international side has been managed for the past 6 years either by an incompetent buffoon, a past it authoritarian dick head or Roy Hodgson.

When Wayne doesn't play for United there is a huge gap in the play, we lack any kind of coherence going forward and whoever plays up front largely has to create something out of nothing.

Last night was no different, the one time the players behind him provided him with a decent pass, he set up a goal, the rest of the match he was either forced to track back, or passing to players who would either knock it straight to the back four or run into dead ends.

He then got shoved up front after the Italians took the lead and camped on their edge of their box, after he had been running his arse off for an hour plus in South America of all places and expected to be razer sharp in fromt of the box.
 
Lawman said:
One half chance and who is fit to lace RVPs boots? We should enjoy having him at United and stop all this shit. I'm from Scotland and looking at England Rooney is still your best player (easily)
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How is being free inside the area and not even hitting the target a half chance?
 
Ducklegs said:
This post is typical of people who don't see the wood for the trees.

Wayne tracks back and drops deep a lot, why?

He plays for two teams with largely ineffective midfields.

His side creates nothing apart from lumping crosses in the box if he doesn't drop deep and try and work the chances himself his international side has been managed for the past 6 years either by an incompetent buffoon, a past it authoritarian dick head or Roy Hodgson.

When Wayne doesn't play for United there is a huge gap in the play, we lack any kind of coherence going forward and whoever plays up front largely has to create something out of nothing.

Last night was no different, the one time the players behind him provided him with a decent pass, he set up a goal, the rest of the match he was either forced to track back, or passing to players who would either knock it straight to the back four or run into dead ends.

He then got shoved up front after the Italians took the lead and camped on their edge of their box, after he had been running his arse off for an hour plus in South America of all places and expected to be razer sharp in fromt of the box.
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Can't say I agree with most of that.

When we didn't play Rooney at times last season, and instead had some combination of Kagawa, Mata, RVP, Hernandez and Welbeck, we looked far more fluid and coherent as a team.

As for your other point about playing with an ineffectual midfield, there is no way of proving or disproving that other than seeing him in front of a better one. However I think it is in Wayne's nature to drop deep, and regularly that has been more damaging to our play than anything else, due to the ramifications it has on the shape of the two teams. When we have players like Kagawa and Mata, they need space in order to work. That space is created by having a proper #9 in front of them who stretches the back line and plays on the shoulder of the CB.
 
I think most of Rooney's issue is mental, and probably brought on by the obsession and debate around him. We all know he's played the role he was asked to yesterday, most of the times very well. How ever i think the obsession with him, the calls for him to be dropped, the big thing about him getting 0 world cup goals etc He's probably abandoning the team work side of his game, which was one of his strengths. You could see last night, especially in the 2nd half he wanted to be a hero and i think that's down to his stubborn nature and wanting to shut his critics up.
 
Lawman said:
Hey Kouroux the bit I think your completely wrong was when you said he's just not that good anymore. I can't agree with that he's consistently year in year out one of United's top players.
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Did you miss the word "anymore" ? Rooney used to be a cracking and consistent player, he's still a good one right now but obviously he is declining as a player.Therefore he isn't good enough anymore to be automatically starting for Utd and England
 
Ducklegs said:
This post is typical of people who don't see the wood for the trees.

Wayne tracks back and drops deep a lot, why?

He plays for two teams with largely ineffective midfields.

His side creates nothing apart from lumping crosses in the box if he doesn't drop deep and try and work the chances himself his international side has been managed for the past 6 years either by an incompetent buffoon, a past it authoritarian dick head or Roy Hodgson.

When Wayne doesn't play for United there is a huge gap in the play, we lack any kind of coherence going forward and whoever plays up front largely has to create something out of nothing.

Last night was no different, the one time the players behind him provided him with a decent pass, he set up a goal, the rest of the match he was either forced to track back, or passing to players who would either knock it straight to the back four or run into dead ends.

He then got shoved up front after the Italians took the lead and camped on their edge of their box, after he had been running his arse off for an hour plus in South America of all places and expected to be razer sharp in fromt of the box.
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" There are none so blind as those who will not see". No matter how badly he performs, although yesterday he was ok, people will always find an excuse for Rooney. Its the manager playing him out of position or the players around him not good enough.
He is credited with intelligence, positional awareness and technical skill without obvious corroborative evidence.
There are number of former players, if given the same number of years at Utd as Rooney, that would score an equal if not more number of goals. Check their goals per game ratios.
I guess it must be mass hysteria caused by prolonged media hyperbole. Well that same media is rapidly turning against him and will soon find some other player for the deluded to follow.
Look at all the great players in the world currently. Look at their technical ability, especially close ball control. Do you really see Rooney displaying comparative skills? Yesterday even with two men on him Pirlo was able to make lovely short passes.
What is it exactly about Rooney that makes some think he is so great? Please don't say his passion and work-rate I am talking about skill pure and simple
 
Surely it's time people understand the differing opinions from their own and just accept there is a large group of people on either side when it comes to Rooney.

Scapegoat, haters, anti-Rooney are key words I see splattered throughout this thread but this is essentially Manchester United's poster boy and best English player. When I think about that, I get slightly depressed.

The first 9 years of his career were generally a joy to watch but even though he's often likely to create a goal or score one, he's also likely to break and slow down play throughout a game. His decline is just becoming more obvious the more he plays. No one other than Sir Alex has the balls to drop him.
 
His not good enough as a #10, and before last season I would say his best postion was as a striker. Problem is of late he doesn't make any runs behind defenders, we have Mata and Kagawa trying to thread balls through but Rooney is just static it was very evident last night for England to when he was put in the middle I was preying he does something and well let's just leave it at that!
 
markhrad said:
" There are none so blind as those who will not see". No matter how badly he performs, although yesterday he was ok, people will always find an excuse for Rooney. Its the manager playing him out of position or the players around him not good enough.
He is credited with intelligence, positional awareness and technical skill without obvious corroborative evidence.
There are number of former players, if given the same number of years at Utd as Rooney, that would score an equal if not more number of goals. Check their goals per game ratios.
I guess it must be mass hysteria caused by prolonged media hyperbole. Well that same media is rapidly turning against him and will soon find some other player for the deluded to follow.
Look at all the great players in the world currently. Look at their technical ability, especially close ball control. Do you really see Rooney displaying comparative skills? Yesterday even with two men on him Pirlo was able to make lovely short passes.
What is it exactly about Rooney that makes some think he is so great? Please don't say his passion and work-rate I am talking about skill pure and simple
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Why would you use former United players as a bench mark for what Rooney should be doing, when all of the played in arguably better teams than Rooney?
RVN was a beast of a striker, in 5 years we won one league, one league cup and one FA cup with the same problem of either a mix and match defence leaking goals at the other end, or a patch work midfield.
He scored plenty of goals, but did nothing else.

Wayne Rooney has been in and around the top 5 (statically ) strikers in the county for the past ten years, if you add up goals scored and goals created, he is more often than not in the top three.

I don't know what people want from him, these past 3 seasons he has out scored and out assisted either one or both of Aguero and Suarez in all of them, yet you want him dropped for the likes of Danny Welbeck.

Suarez doesn't get messed around for his club, neither does Aguero either for club or country, why does Wayne have to be shipped around to accommodate other, inferior players?
 
I don't know whether to laugh or cry when people easily throw around Kagawa's name for no #10 and being better there than Rooney, let alone being a better overall player when we don't have any evidence of him being consistently great, at least for us. Mata for all his talents has other issues of not tracking back, something for which Mourinho got rid of him. Yet, for people here Mata and Kagawa are the Iniestas and Rooney a Heskey.
 
Don't people usually use versatility as one of the big arguments for his greatness. Now suddenly whenever Rooney plays bad it is because of the position he is given. Everything would be fine if he played the role as a front striker which we rarely see him play. Emperor's new clothes?
 
Should have been sold after his last contract dispute. My suspicion is that during our least glamorous period for many years, losing our biggest superstar (in terms of name) wasn't an option.

England and United will cost themselves trying to find a position to insist he starts in. If he isn't deemed the best options in his position, don't play him. Fecking David Moyes came in, took us out of Europe , lumbered us with Fellaini, and then strapped an albatross in the shape of a declining Wayne Rooney on us well into his thirties, on wages that would never give us a realistic chance of selling him.

That said, I still have a tenner on him winning the golden boot!
 
Very average yesterday but nothing that was too surprising with him playing left. He did well for the goal and put in a top ball but too often in attacking play he will drift in when to best help the team he needs to stay wider. Defensively he worked hard but clearly struggled, that said I think the lack of blame on the poor shielding by the central midfielders has been harsh as he's had to bare most the blame.

I think though it could be interesting to see what happens next game. Stirling was excellent and to me seemed to offer a range of approaches at number ten that Rooney hasn't shown in a long time. He picked it up and turned and ran forward with great intent, used the ball well/playing off other people and showed he could pick a pass with his ball to Rooney and a number of dangerous crosses than others should have got on the end of. Rooney on the other had plays it to me very one dimensional. Gets it, usually looks to spread it wide and then wants to get in the box for the cross. Unfortunately we don't have players (same at united), who are looking to hold their width and put in a consistently top ball.

That said Rooney's strengths over Sterling and any other options there (united included) are the fact that on the whole he is a much greater goal threat and offers better protection in a central roles. I though that's why now his best role is as the lead man, not as the deeper player.

Personally I think if Sterling can replicate that performance than it would be hard to say Rooney should play over him as the number ten and if he isn't playing there or number 9 maybe we'd be better with him as an option on the bench. As I said he's likely to offer a bigger individual goal threat-though he bottled his one yesterday- but it seemed that Stirling especially with someone more comfortably wide like Lallana/AOC could bring more out of others and give a stronger team attack.

Hopefully this pushes Rooney to up his game to prove his quality. I just think with Sterling giving the motm performance in Rooney's arguably best role and Sturridge being favoured for number 9 then if players are being picked on current form and not name than Rooney arguably should be starting on the bench. It's not a case of punishing him just recognising that right now others have excelled in his roles and he's not shown comfort moving in to other areas which many would struggle with and if he's not going to start in his best role he could be best used as an impact player.
 
If he was played upfront and he had a bad game then fair enough but people getting on his back for playing out of position, at times almost a left back I feel is harsh. Either play him upfront or as a #10 or drop him it's that simple. Terrible management even putting him in that position.
 
His performances are a very real worry if you ask me. Playing on the left shouldn't affect your sharpness and touch and this issue has been following him for a while and is why so many don't like him in the #10.
 
Other evertonians will lynch me for this but the best thing Rooney ever did for himself was join Utd he produces in a GOOD team but isn't a game changer if the team is cack. Even watching him on TV he'd score then wander around taking a breather which is fine at Utd surrounded by the Giggs, Scholes' of this world who can carry him. But for an average England outfit against the elite he just looks fecked.
 
kouroux said:
What is nonsense ? That Rooney had a good first half and a not so good second half of the season ? Did Rooney play that well in the 2013-2014 season ? Enlighten me my friend as apparently I'm completely wrong.
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I think he had a good to great first half of the season to be honest, koroux. He was easily our best player in most of the games. Granted he faded in the second half.

I do think Rooney is ridiculously overpaid. He's not in the Ronaldo/Messi bracket, but who is? Maybe Yaya, Iniesta, Xavi and that's about it.

But apart from the obvious and the salary I think he's instrumental for our team. When out of form he looks a bit like pub player, but when he's on form he's up there with the best. I think that is the issue that causes such polar opinions on him...
 
I don't agree with people using Rooney as a scapegoat for the result last night. Yes, it wasn't his best performance but it certainly wasn't his worse. He's not a natural wing player but did his best. He even set up Sturridge for the goal from the left. Only criticism I have of Rooney's performance last night was that he exposed Leighton Baines by cutting in too much. That allowed the Italians to take advantage down the left. Saying that, you can't just say it was Rooney who struggled on the left, Welbeck didn't cover the left wing enough, which allowed the Italians to breakaway, get past Baines and get the cross in for Balotelli to score. Rooney did well attacking, he struggled defensively helping to provide protection for Baines. Same could be said for Welbeck, although he did brilliantly winning the ball back.

Due to Rooney/Welbeck both struggling to cover the left wing defensively, we hardly saw Baines running down the flank. Infact, I don't think we saw Baines bomb down the left until very late on. It's something Hodgson & Co. will need to work on but keep Rooney in the team for Uruguay, Keep the same team, same set up and see how they fair. England were unlucky last night not to get something from the game but if they keep doing what they are doing, no-one can really complain about the effort they've put in.
 
He was fine last night. Superb cross for our goal.

Worst thing he did was kick a corner straight out of play. I'm still utterly baffled as to how he managed that.
 
James Redburn said:
Other evertonians will lynch me for this but the best thing Rooney ever did for himself was join Utd he produces in a GOOD team but isn't a game changer if the team is cack. Even watching him on TV he'd score then wander around taking a breather which is fine at Utd surrounded by the Giggs, Scholes' of this world who can carry him. But for an average England outfit against the elite he just looks fecked.
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Yeah that's bullshit.
 
The hypocrisy of people here knows no bounds. On one hand they have problem with Rooney because he earns (supposedly) 300k and doesn't justify it but on the other hand they crib when club holds back on paying 4-5m extra for some player in transfer market and when someone brings out point of 'overpriced' they justify it saying "who cares, it is not our money." This when there is no guarantee that the said player will be a success. Well Rooney's salary is also not your money. Whether club decides to give him 100k or 300k, it is between club and him. Let club and manager figure out if he is worth. Over the whole 10 years he has been a pivotal part of club's success and in one of the worst campaign for club in ages, only De Gea can claim to have had better campaign. So if he is to be sold or kept out of XI, there are hardly any other players in United who can claim to deserve a place in starting XI based on last season.
 
Solius said:
He was fine last night. Superb cross for our goal.

Worst thing he did was kick a corner straight out of play. I'm still utterly baffled as to how he managed that.
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I first thought, I might have missed it and he might have tried taking corner with left foot and hence such comical one. Wasn't the case :lol:
 
Enigma_87 said:
I think he had a good to great first half of the season to be honest, koroux. He was easily our best player in most of the games. Granted he faded in the second half.

I do think Rooney is ridiculously overpaid. He's not in the Ronaldo/Messi bracket, but who is? Maybe Yaya, Iniesta, Xavi and that's about it.

But apart from the obvious and the salary I think he's instrumental for our team. When out of form he looks a bit like pub player, but when he's on form he's up there with the best. I think that is the issue that causes such polar opinions on him...
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The problem is that he isn't even in the bracket right below big two (with the likes of Suarez, RVP, Aguero etc). He is overpayed but that isn't a big problem for me (unless we want to sell him which will make that a problem because no-club will be interested). The big problem is that he just isn't that good. Currently he isn't the best striker, No.10, winger or midfielder for both club and the country.

I fully expect him to be a squad player next season. Fortunately LVG doesn't care for big names, so if Rooney doesn't perform, he'll warm the bench.
 
The Man Himself said:
I first thought, I might have missed it and he might have tried taking corner with left foot and hence such comical one. Wasn't the case :lol:
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Looked to me like he tried to hit it with the outside of his right foot so it would bend back in towards the keeper, but he got the angle completely wrong and it bent back into the crowd behind the goals.
 
legball said:
I like Rooney, he's a very good player but it's baffling when people want us to sell RVP and keep him. The gulf in class between those two is incredible. His first touch is horrible at times, isn't a good #10, not a midfielder. He's a number 9 and should be played there, but we have someone for that position who is comfortably better than him. As for Hodgson, not sure what he was thinking playing Rooney on the left, shocking decision from an average manager!
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I agree with this.
 
I don't think people should go over the top. As a striker he's a top player who I think if played there over a whole season would be good for 30 goals a season and if the team is as strong as it should be, if he kept himself fit/fired up could approach 40 though I don't think he could quite get there.

The problem for me is that Rooney hasn't developed the other areas of his game that would allow him to play number ten/wider comfortably. When I say play number ten I mean play it in the fashion of being the creative hub of the team. When he does play there it is very much a striker dropping of. As I mentioned above, he gets it, spreads it wide and then looks to get in the box. He doesn't carry the ball particularly well and he doesn't play regular incisive passes.

But there's no doubt of his quality as the lead man. He's not fluked his way to being on track to be the leading goal scorer for club and country. He's done that because he's a great goal scorer. He'd already been top if he had been the regular penalty taker for both as well. Most his goals are from open play. I mean its Rooney who was asked to sacrifice his game, yet he's proven that he can lead the line fantastically, if Sturridge was asked to play wide no doubt he'd struggle as well.
 
The Man Himself said:
The hypocrisy of people here knows no bounds. On one hand they have problem with Rooney because he earns (supposedly) 300k and doesn't justify it but on the other hand they crib when club holds back on paying 4-5m extra for some player in transfer market and when someone brings out point of 'overpriced' they justify it saying "who cares, it is not our money." This when there is no guarantee that the said player will be a success. Well Rooney's salary is also not your money. Whether club decides to give him 100k or 300k, it is between club and him. Let club and manager figure out if he is worth. Over the whole 10 years he has been a pivotal part of club's success and in one of the worst campaign for club in ages, only De Gea can claim to have had better campaign. So if he is to be sold or kept out of XI, there are hardly any other players in United who can claim to deserve a place in starting XI based on last season.
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Spot on. Saddens me how we view our players and buy into the media's mischief and complete and utter crap to sell papers. England get knocked out, and yet again Utd player will be the scapegoat.

Yesterday, the cross from Rooney made the goal, yet people talk about the 'superb' finish which was a tap in. They talk about the miss, look where he took the ball from, he made the chance himself and was unlucky.

I don't covert Suarez or Aguero as they arent going to be at their respective clubs for 10 years no matter how much they are willing to pay them. RVP came here to win a title under SAF.

Rooney will become the all-time leading goal scorer for us, and given the quality of strikers we have had here. speaks volumes. You dont achieve that unless your a top, top player....
 
Not exactly the best performance but we can't scapegoat him. Baines and Gerrard were horrific and the blame should start with them
 
Enigma_87 said:
I think he had a good to great first half of the season to be honest, koroux. He was easily our best player in most of the games. Granted he faded in the second half.

I do think Rooney is ridiculously overpaid. He's not in the Ronaldo/Messi bracket, but who is? Maybe Yaya, Iniesta, Xavi and that's about it.

But apart from the obvious and the salary I think he's instrumental for our team. When out of form he looks a bit like pub player, but when he's on form he's up there with the best. I think that is the issue that causes such polar opinions on him...
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I kinda disagree there, even at his best (when was the last time he truly was at that best anyway ?) he's not among the best players in the world.
 
Rooney is suffering for being played in multiple positions for so long. He is now in the position where he wants to play in his favoured position, understandably, but because he has been moved about so often he is not quite as good as the options we have in mata and rvp. Where of he had been more selfish earlier in his career that may not be the case now, and a (very small) part of me feels sorry for him. I also think the high levels of criticism he gets are down to a: him thinking he is better than he actually is which always rubs people the wrong way, and b: being a fairly unlikable person most of the time
 
United22 said:
Not exactly the best performance but we can't scapegoat him. Baines and Gerrard were horrific and the blame should start with them
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Not when Rooney is supposed to be one of the best players in the world. Gerrard is clearly pasted it and Baines isnt a top player so why would we hold them to the same standard as Rooney?

Just because he wasn't the worst player isn't an achievement at all.
 
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