We need both. Selling any of the two is ridiculous at this stage, particularly when we can't get a big name easily as a replacement and if one is injured other will be main striker.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
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We need both. Selling any of the two is ridiculous at this stage, particularly when we can't get a big name easily as a replacement and if one is injured other will be main striker.
Hodgson is a Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime, don't get me wrong I expected zero from England this tournament, but his decisions this game were frankly baffling, including his use of Rooney, all I would have done personally would have been to use Welbeck to shadow Pirlo in the same way SAF used him on Xabi Alonso, but otherwise play your usual game.
Secondly the last 30mins reminded me so much of Moyes reign, slow, zombie football, idealess, directionless, not a clue how to play technically incisive football, would kill for a LvG/Martinez for the England national team, get rid of these 80's dinosaurs.
Anyway.. Re:Rooney, am really looking forward to see what happens with LvG, you feel if anyone can get more out of him as the no.10, or finding a clutch position for Wayne in a system, it's a coach in his mould, failing that he'll be shipped out which also doesn't sound too bad to me right now.
You say he's a striker, but then advocate playing him on the left, as if he'd be happy with that all season.
Rooney's finishing is horrible
I think Rooney should play 10, Barkley should be his competitor for the position (I think Rooney is beter than Barkley for the time being), Sturridge as 9 and if Sturridge can't play than Rooney as 9. With wings being Sterling and Welbeck and Lallana as back up.
---------------Hart------------------
Johnson---Jones-----Cahill------Baines
-------Gerrard-----Henderson-------
--------------Rooney---------------
Welbeck------Sturridge-------Sterling
Would work fine I think. But barkley has absolutley no business being in that team ahead of Rooney for the time being, if he plays bad you can bring Barkley in, but when fit and in form Rooney always deserves to start there in this team.
You say he's a striker, but then advocate playing him on the left, as if he'd be happy with that all season.
Don't question him, he's a footballing mastermind.
That's the problem. Rooney is neither fit nor in form.
When Rooney is fit AND in form something will be along pretty sharpish to change one Or the other of those variables
You say he's a striker, but then advocate playing him on the left, as if he'd be happy with that all season.
?? I am not 'advocating' him playing left. Is LvG going to keep RvP out? No? Right. So where does Rooney play? Either in hole or on left. Will he prefer being striker? Yes. Will he be as disappointed with playing left as playing as a midfielder? I doubt. In fact, if played in hole, he will probably love it the most. Now, whom to play left and whom in hole between Mata and Rooney is up to LvG. He can get more through Rooney in hole as he can put a better shift but Mata can be more creative. Also, if left full back makes more forward runs, the one on left needs to be covering if needed. Also depends who the 2 holding midfielders are etc etc.
So, in summary, all I am saying is a left forward role or hole role in 4-3-3 won't hurt him as much as playing as midfielder.
He didn't turn anything around either, so how could he be 100 times beter, he didn't set up any goals, he didn't score any and beside that shot in the first half hardly got any good chances either. Rooney had a magnificent assist and it is unfortunate for England that he missed it, but he also had the 2-2 on his foot. Not wolrdclass performance but he was influential and he also had to play on that left flank working in an unnatural position, he covered more ground than other player, did his job well I thought, you can't be a game changer if you have to run up and down that flank everytime. In fact it was Sterling who was playing in the position most suited to be a game changer, and he changed shit all, the most important build up still came from Rooney and the goal also came from Rooney his assist. Not saying sterling didn't play a good game, I agree he was beter than Rooney, but not by much, saying he was 100 times beter is really exagerating, like everybody always does when Rooney is involved...
He is fit and he may not be in the best form of his life, but if you score 17 goals for a United like this season than your form also isn't to bad. How many goals and assists did Barkley have at Everton ? Must have scored like 20+ goals and assists if you hear people raving about him like that on here. He scored 6 goals, not bad for such a young lad from the number 10, but a world of difference from Rooney...For england, how many goals did Barkley score, how many chances did he have today when he came on, I saw bitter few ? Rooney is topscorer, he'll also be high up with the assists aswell and I don't watch Engeland to often, but everytime I do, Rooney is always involved with something, an assists a goal, an important pass, he always contributes to what matters most the scoreline.
On his fitness, he covered more distance than anyone else on that pitch in very hard circumstances, if he isn't in form than what about the rest ? Such bullshit this Rooney ain't fit, a player that isn't fit, doesn't play like 90 minutes in those circumstances and he surely doesn't cover more ground than ahyone else on the pitch. It is just ridiculous...
You can't be very serious with this? You can be one of the best ever playmakers in the number 10 role, like Zidane or Iniesta, and average 5-6 goals per season. You can also be a very shit one even if you score 30 per season, if your overall game is weak.
Of course Rooney isn't bad but bringing up goals and assists to evaluate how good someone is as a playmaker/number 10 is the last thing one should do. Even someone like Platini, who was known for scoring goals and creating assists would be a bloody brilliant playmaker without those assets.
For Rooney he is his goals and assists, and if you remove those he doesn't have a single skill except his work-rate that would put him in the top tier bracket for AM's. This is the description of a second striker or a striker, which is exactly what Rooney is rather than a number 10 or playmaker by any sorts.
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Welbeck should had stay for full 90th mins instead of Rooney. Rooney didn't play well. But great assist though.
Very good player...Bad game tonight but, a very good player..
An absolute massive mistake giving him "that" money and "that" contract though.
Absolute no doubt in my mind
An absolute massive mistake giving him "that" money and "that" contract though.
Absolute no doubt in my mind
I can't imagine if you're an England fan as well as a United fan you'd defend that performance. He doesn't look fit, sharp or happy, who knows what is up but I think you either play him as a #9 or not at all, it's silly to shoehorn him in.
Scholes was right, wasn't he?
Football's a simple game.
Looks like it so far. Let's see how the rest of his World Cup goes.
Think (or rather hope) we'll ship him off within the next 18 months to some sheikh funded club.
I really do not know what he does anymore...
Mata is a better no.10 then he is and RVP is a far better striker so, what does he do?!
For the first time, in 20 years, I was clueless over a player tonight. He popped up on the left, the right, the middle and up front...I had no idea what role he was supposed to be playing....And it left England exposed a few times.
Apart from the assist, I really don't know what to think about tonight.
*I'm not an English man so I'm looking from the outside in*
I haven't watched the match but him being shit in this match isn't a surprise, we all more or less predicted he was gonna a terrible tournament.
with the italy game over now england got uruguay and costa rica and needed results here,they simply have to be positive and attack now, which is why they have to play just like the formation you mentioned above.
it's either rooney at no 10 or rooney dropped.
Woy dont have the guts to drop him. Sterlung was better and deserve to play ahead of him
Rooney got accommodated to the left and destroy the team with his Brainless attitude to understand that he should cover his left side and not being the main man. Something he can't accept. Sacrificing one for the team my arse.
He never delivers in the international, people in herw didnt even rate him, and people are betting on italy simply because they know rooney will always play and fails to deliver
I'll try!
He is probably the only player in world footballer who when he has an average game, is suddenly labelled a shocking footballer and a waste of space. This is the guy who is going to be the all time leading goal scorer for Manchester United.
He must have something about him.
He must have something about him.
My guess is that the players who ll perform best will be those who took it a bit easy during last season - Neymar, Rvp,messi, nani and others. Rooney is not one of them...
Sarcasm-alert, but to be fair, the Liverpool player did last season, performing at big matches/stages, but Rooney last season was good, but good vs aston villa etc and when we played topmatches he was nowhere to be found, the season 2012/2013 was just the RVP season, the big match where he performed was against City, I can't remember another big match/stage where rooney stood up since the RVP signing.True. All other England players in this team are making headlines at big stages, contributing to trophy wins. Also, at United, last season, every player put better efforts and played better than him
Compare apple to apple. Otherwise we will end up discussing Rooney's 2009-10 performances with Liverpool's players from same season and it will become ridiculous.
If someone wants to call him not being good for United, tell me how many from rest have been better overall than him.
If you want to call him out for England's defeats/ bad performances, show me what exactly great Gerrard Lampard Terry etc have done over the years but never being questioned to this type of scrutiny.
And that is understandable. I can't think of a player like him. His bottom level can be utterly atrocious, yet he is guaranteed goals and assists. For a player of his innate ability he puts in performances that are just completely unacceptable. He's just a very strange player, that is no longer the best in his position for both club and country, yet enjoys superstar status. The only reason he isn't dropped is because his productivity is outstanding, and I can understand the dilemma.
It's remarkable at 28 he still hasn't found his best position.
Some people say behind the striker. Then we get the Wayne sometimes who can't pass, has a poor first touch and plays too slowly .
As a striker he gets frustrated when he doesn't get the ball and runs into other positions. And isn't disciplined at times.
Some people say behind the striker. Then we get the Wayne sometimes who can't pass, has a poor first touch and plays too slowly .
As a striker he gets frustrated when he doesn't get the ball and runs into other positions. And isn't disciplined at times.
It's not like Rooney played that outstandingly this past season.He's just not good enough anymore.
Not getting this Rooney thing? He had a season where he performed very well in comparison to many of his team mates. Played ok last night certainly wasnt poor producing the only bit end product and nearly scoring himself whilst playing in a position he was not suited too? Yet the BBC panel of Shearer and Liniker were determined to use the narrative of Wayne costing England. That looked predetermined to me and didn't fit in tune with the game.
Hart looked like a mistake waiting to happen (fumble early on and Jagielka saved his stupidity with a goal line clearance) Gerrard was pedestrian and walked most of the match and Baines looked a pale shadow of Cole in his pomp.
Kouroux that is nonsense
I haven't said he has not been good, but the hasn't shown himself at big stages for a while now imo, and then asking for wages like your Ibra or something while you just haven't shown since 2011/2012 that you are also there at the top makes Engeland laugh at him. Rooney has had 2 really outstanding season 2009/2010 & 2011/2012, further he makes me think of an overweight overpaid player who is class, but not the class people have rated him. I think he is just a little bit under the top (Suarez, Ibra, RVP, etc) but he got the potential to be their, for a while he was like top5 of the world, he got qualities, but he just hasn't shown them for a very a 2 year period now.
Yep, this thread is full of lunatics. The revisionism when people talk about Rooney is quite staggering.
I think, by agreeing to play outwide for England, he has weakened his position if the issue ever arises . LvG will simply do a Fergie and make the disagreement public, pointing out that he is refusing to do for United what he did for England, and the fan base will turn against him again . Plus playing on the left in a system I expect LvG to implement here would so different to doing it for Moyes or Hodgson , with Mata, Van Persie and Januzaj/possibly Sanchez Rooney can and will score around twenty goals a season from a wide position . If the tactical set up is right he has the intelligence, positioning and skill to make it work . Whether his pride allows it is another matter .
I don't think his passing is solid or assured enough to play in the role in a possession based system . He can be very good in the hole but consistently enough to keep out the likes of Mata and Kagawa, under a manager who doesn't owe him shit, absolutely not ! He will not getting starts regardless of form or finishing games when he is shit, the difference now is that Mata is more than good enough to take full advantage .
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Not good enough. Once again fails to deliver for England couple of atrocious misses. He is so overrated it's unbelievable not fit to lace RvP's boots.
I would like to see how LvG uses Rooney for the first half of next season. Since we are not in Europe none of our players will be tied, and we can freely sell in January, if we want (in general, not just Rooney).
I am of the mind that Rooney just doesn't fit any system properly though, and it's been the way for a few years. When leading the line, he drops back too much - doesn't put enough pressure on the defenders, doesn't have enough pace to stretch the back line etc - this allows the opposition to push up and play a high line, pressuring our midfield.
Play Rooney as a #10? Can do but his technical ability isn't anywhere near the likes of Mata or Kagawa. He is wasteful, does not take players on and does not create enough in that role - he simply sprays passes out to the wingers.
There just isn't an obvious position for him, or a system to make use of his skillsets.
The closest I can think of would be a 3 man midfield, with someone like Carrick in the holding role, and then two of Mata, Kagawa, Rooney and Cleverley as the two more advanced players.
I am of the mind that Rooney just doesn't fit any system properly though, and it's been the way for a few years. When leading the line, he drops back too much - doesn't put enough pressure on the defenders, doesn't have enough pace to stretch the back line etc - this allows the opposition to push up and play a high line, pressuring our midfield.
Play Rooney as a #10? Can do but his technical ability isn't anywhere near the likes of Mata or Kagawa. He is wasteful, does not take players on and does not create enough in that role - he simply sprays passes out to the wingers.
There just isn't an obvious position for him, or a system to make use of his skillsets.
The closest I can think of would be a 3 man midfield, with someone like Carrick in the holding role, and then two of Mata, Kagawa, Rooney and Cleverley as the two more advanced players.
One half chance and who is fit to lace RVPs boots? We should enjoy having him at United and stop all this shit. I'm from Scotland and looking at England Rooney is still your best player (easily)
I've 'got' the Rooney thing for years now. When people were defending his right to play at #10 I was convinced that his best position was as striker and that he's predictable elsewhere. Only now are the majority coming round to that idea, but hey ho. "He scored 27 goals at #10, don't ya know!"
I agree about a few other players, but this thread isn't really the place to discuss them.
He really isn't, get Barkley in the team and put Rooney in the has-been bin, we still don't know what his best position is and he's 28 ffs. Won't last five minutes under van Gaal.
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