I hope for the same actually, but Rooney is a prick who has taken this club to the cleaners. Fergie got soft on him and Moyes feared him. No more.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
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I hope for the same actually, but Rooney is a prick who has taken this club to the cleaners. Fergie got soft on him and Moyes feared him. No more.
Well, that was your claim first, you said he stays more defensive than the likes of Mata. I was checking it quite often through the season, and there is too much games for me to analyze it all again, and that wasn't my point anyway, so I am not doing it. If you don't trust me, you can check it all on whoscored(you'll need to open lot of fixtures, to check player's average position, type "player name" and check fixtures he's been involved in, go to Match report and click player positions). It's not something I care about anyway, he can stay higher than opposition's keeper for all I could care, I just have problems with your missleading stats.
My stats - or more accurately, Squawka's - show that Rooney makes more defensive contributions (using their definition) per game than Mata, Ozil and Silva. I used those stats as evidence that he does tend to get back and defend more than the others do in open play, something which i've seen with my own eyes as well.
You then said they're misleading because they don't take into account that Rooney comes back for corners, and the others don't. But you offered absolutely nothing to back that claim up with, or show how it would look very different if defensive contributions from corners were taken out of the equation (although it isn't obvious to me why they even should be).
Until you do, i'm not just going to take your word for it, especially since you openly admit to not liking Rooney.
It wasn't a critique on Man United though. It was him talking about whether he should start for England. What other Utd players were doing was irrelevant.
Imagine that, weirdo.
Regardless of how he plays, I can't see Woodward / Glazers letting him leave as he's integral to our commercial success. A lot of our commercial deals will be on the understanding that Rooney is involved.
Exactemente. The amount of intellectual dishonesty on both sides of the Rooney debate is getting tiresome.
I said before that the Glazers are all about money and Rooney being England's best and a media darling, is a cash cow. That is why Fergie did not get rid of a person who is over-rated and disrespected both him and the club.
I suspect that after another poor WC Rooney will finally lose his "savior" status and another ( eg Barkley ) will take his place.
This will then allow LVG to do with him whatever he thinks is within the best interest of the team.
If Rooney remains the media darling I predict a lot of frustration for LVG and persons like me.
Yes, that definitely lets you off the hook. Any other players we should mention, Makelele? It's a stupid comparision between a defensive player and a offensive player in any position.
We should all strive for such weirdness.
I didn't criticise him for that, I said I am happy with his defensive contribution in general, don't just read what you like. What I said is that his defensive contribution isn't that great considering how much he runs. The likes of Mata, Silva are luxury players and still he isn't that far ahead of them either by their defensive contribution if you exclude set pieces. You can see it in the rest of my post. I just mentioned Scholes and Carrick as players who do lot of stuff defensively without actually running that much.
How is that evidence that he defends more than others do in open play, when it includes set pieces?
You want stats, I can give you stats too.
According to whoscored(they use Opta stats), Mata makes more tackles per game than Rooney, 1.1 Mata's against Rooney's 1 per game. Kagawa is also on 1 per game. Even Nani and Valencia make more tackles per game than him. And tackles happen only in open play. So there you go.
As for interceptions, Rooney and Kagawa are both on 1 per game, with Giggs and Valencia being on higher number than him. Mata is on 0.6.
As for clearances, Rooney is on 1.1 against Mata's 0.5.
So, in two games, Rooney makes one interception and clearance more than Mata. That's really far from being superior to them.
Özil and Silva are pretty much on similar stats like Mata, Özil being bit weaker, but Silva still makes more tackles than Rooney.
So, according to stats from open play, bith Silva and Mata make more tackles than him, and Özil is quite close too(0.9), but he only beats them at interceptions and clearances, where set pieces are counted, and not by too much by that either.
Stats like you are posting are BS, so are these I posted. They aren't fake, they are just missleading and telling nothing.
He'll serve our commercial needs from the bench if his performance levels go down.
Rooney is weird, so we shouldn't be weird. At all. Ever.
He strikes me as a bit dull person, never weird.
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England's best player on the bench!!! The media would kill LVG. It would be an insult to English pride.
Lol says a lot about England that Rooney is their only hope. He's been getting worse since 2010
World Cup 2014 Brazil Top Scorers
9 - Roooooooney
7 - Ronaldo
6 - Messi
9 - Roooooooney
7 - Ronaldo
6 - Messi
So be it. Like Park in the past, like Kagawa now.
Park was more than just a jersey seller. You're stereotyping Asian players.
No, he was a decent player alright but in our position commercial aspects need to be taken into account and will be. Not just Asian players, I have already talked about Rooney - he is very important to our wider fan base. Also, Hernandez similarly.
Park was more than just a decent player. If Rooney stops being good enough for United he'll be shown the door like the rest.
If you are in an advanced position, you have to cover more ground to occupy a defensive position, as opposed to a player who maintains a defensive position. Van Persie covers more ground than most, but you're not criticising his defensive contribution based on how much he runs are you? It's a really weird criticism this... Now you have arbitrarily created the 'luxury' and 'non luxury' player distinction to excuse other players for less defensive performances. Why? Totally unnecessary.
Again why are you comparing Rooney's defensive contributions to defensive players. Oh it's a slightly narrowed down metric, such as 'contribution per KM'? It's still a stupid comparison. Remember that Arsenal Bayern game where Ozil ran the 3rd greatest distance, and yet still didn't contribute defensively? Oh wait he's a luxury player, whatever that means.
The same media who are now seriously debating whether he even deserves to start for the national side, let alone United?
Those are still a minority. Anyway if Rooney has a half-decent WC they will all jump back onto the bandwagon and I will have to crawl back into
the shadows, keeping my feelings to myself.
Rooney will score a 30 yard screamer this evening. That will open the floodgates just before the WC starts
@NessunDorma (great username, by the way)
Amar acknowledges the fact that Rooney does the defensive work that he does. So do I. I acknowledge and even appreciate the fact that he covers for the defensive players who are out of position by tracking back and slowing down the attacks. He's actually been important to us, defensively, in this aspect in that he allows our defensive players out of position to get back. In this case, he uses his energy well and for a good purpose. However, that's the only good thing he does, defensively.
When our team is structured and organised, Rooney doesn't do well, defensively. Frequently, we see him chase the ball and chase the players. That is not a good way to defend particularly high up the pitch where you only have 2-3 players defending. Defending higher up the pitch requires more intelligent positioning and ushering players away from the dangerous areas, not chasing the ball and the player in the hope of catching up and tackling the ball holder. Rooney wastes so much energy chasing the ball and the player that he then stops defending completely high up the pitch. Plus, he has less energy to do the damage on the attack.
I expect van Gaal to control Rooney's almost senseless running and make him do better defensively whilst wasting less of his energy.
Amar acknowledges the fact that Rooney does the defensive work that he does. So do I. I acknowledge and even appreciate the fact that he covers for the defensive players who are out of position by tracking back and slowing down the attacks. He's actually been important to us, defensively, in this aspect in that he allows our defensive players out of position to get back. In this case, he uses his energy well and for a good purpose. However, that's the only good thing he does, defensively.
When our team is structured and organised, Rooney doesn't do well, defensively. Frequently, we see him chase the ball and chase the players. That is not a good way to defend particularly high up the pitch where you only have 2-3 players defending. Defending higher up the pitch requires more intelligent positioning and ushering players away from the dangerous areas, not chasing the ball and the player in the hope of catching up and tackling the ball holder. Rooney wastes so much energy chasing the ball and the player that he then stops defending completely high up the pitch. Plus, he has less energy to do the damage on the attack.
I expect van Gaal to control Rooney's almost senseless running and make him do better defensively whilst wasting less of his energy.
Just noticed this in my twitter feed:
Wouldn't have put money on that to be honest
Wouldn't have put money on that to be honest
His long range shooting has always been good, if not great. If i'm an opposing team manager, then i'm worried if Rooney gets the ball centrally, 20-25 yards out, and with a bit of space. Because he can do things like this:
And he doesn't even necessarily need space, being more than capable of working it for himself. Like this:
It seems like people are forever focusing on Rooney's negatives these days. Vociferously looking for signs of his decline. I mean . . . the guy is 28, nearly 29, and so maybe a bit physical of decline could be setting in.
But let's not forget that he still does a lot of things very well indeed, not least scoring from positions in which he has no right to score from:
I didn't mean to imply he's bad from outside the box at all. Rooney's name would obviously be thrown out there if that were a pub quiz question. Just didn't realise he was that good compared to the competition. I thought perhaps the likes of Toure, Gerrard, Suarez, maybe even Lampard would pip him over the past 3 seasons.
That's fair enough, as a point that isn't related to what Nevin alluded to. I found it ridiculous to post that after Nevin's analysis, though.
This is irrelevant. Capello and Scholes' opinion don't matter in this case because the mistakes he made were very basic. Failing to show desire by not pressing or attempting to win the ball back are not connected with what Capello and Scholes mentioned about his work ethic. Nevin's analysis on his defensive positioning is completely independent from what they mentioned.
Of course, but it's best to ignore them.
Nevin's austere analysis is a reminder than there are good pundits out there for me. He's not feeding off anything - he's making simple points as to why Rooney has been criticised. At not point does he take a concrete position re Rooney's position.
No they aren't because Rooney is recognised as a top player by many. Lallana and Sterling, for example, represent something different - freshness - if you like. I think another reason for the criticism of Rooney's game is that maybe England fans are fed up with his performances. Maybe they want to see "new faces", not that I agree with this stance. I also believe the rhetoric regarding young players being given a chance, since England aren't going to win the World Cup, a strong contributor to this debate.
As Nevin said, that's the problem. He's one of England's best players, so why is his position being talked about? He's seen by many as the face of English football. I don't believe it's strange to question his position - that's if we're talking about him as a #10. I firmly believe that he should play as a centre-forward for England. That's where you'll get the best out of him. However, if he plays as a #10, then defensively he isn't the greatest at times against big opposition (see Busquets 2011 CL final and Pirlo Euro 2012). You need motivation and in the past, he's shown to be defensively average at marking midfielders.
No he really isn't being that at all. You have missed the point. This isn't about other attacking players . This about Rooney, so other players have no relevance - or little relevance if you like - to the points that have been discussed. You could find clips of Rooney working hard in the first half of the season defensively - not so much in the second half of the season (Olympiakos game stands out at his best). Same applies to his touch.This is on the basis that form is the key contributor in assessing Rooney's position.
He doesn't look fit at all to me in these friendly games, he just looks out of sorts in general and he's been pretty anonymous in them.
And how did that go.
Rooney is furious with Scholes, can not shut up about it. Quite an ego on his fat head. He obviously feels himself to be a top 10 player...
http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/27801310
He comes off quite upset about it... ''He has never had my phone number and I never his''.
http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/27801310
He comes off quite upset about it... ''He has never had my phone number and I never his''.
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He probably comes off a dog shit performance thinking 'yeahh, I was amazing'
To be fair Rooney called him 'probably the best player I have ever played with', understandably though it's fair to say the criticism is strange.
Paddy Power no doubt love it, the problem with Paul Scholes is he says exactly what he thinks because he has no time for being fake, in public though being critical of an England player who already is low on confidence and form probably won't help him. He probably already has Jack Wilshire thinking whether he's wasted the past few years by not progressing at the rate he should have.
I think there is a time and place for that criticism, just before a tough world cup group probably isn't the best time to speak your mind. If he carries on, next he'll be claiming (as he has in the past) the players for England don't care about the honour and will use the world cup stage for personal glory. And he might even have a valid point, but again it's probably worth saying those things after the world cup, for now just support the team.
Paddy Power no doubt love it, the problem with Paul Scholes is he says exactly what he thinks because he has no time for being fake, in public though being critical of an England player who already is low on confidence and form probably won't help him. He probably already has Jack Wilshire thinking whether he's wasted the past few years by not progressing at the rate he should have.
I think there is a time and place for that criticism, just before a tough world cup group probably isn't the best time to speak your mind. If he carries on, next he'll be claiming (as he has in the past) the players for England don't care about the honour and will use the world cup stage for personal glory. And he might even have a valid point, but again it's probably worth saying those things after the world cup, for now just support the team.
i agree. I think these things should be done behind closed doors
I'm sorry to ask but what Scholes said about Rooney ?
He said Rooney might be past his peak because he's been playing since he was 16. Nothing that controversial I think given that his best season was 3 season ago. It's not to say he won't be able to replicate that form, it's not a given either though.
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