Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

[Trigg]

To be perfectly honest, its not a stretch to say we've seen the best of Rooney. We know he's a chunky monkey so he's not going to have longevity of Giggs or even Scholes I'd argue unless he drastically changes the way he looks after himself.

Scholes had an opinion that some fans have and shared them. The best thing for Rooney is to prove those people wrong and produce the goods at the world cup and then next season at United.

 

[NMF]

yes you're right on that. Rio and Rooney were the two players Mitten said didn want kagawa to come.

Rio? I didn't know that, seems strange his always been full of praise on him and even said he worked harder than anyone in training. But Rooney wanted us to sign Ozil and there isn't much difference in playing styles between the two.

It's actually baffling they are like this. At least Ferdinand (despite being an absolute top class defender) is gone, Rooney won't get away with that under Van Gaal.

 

[Gladiator]

Rio? I didn't know that, seems strange his always been full of praise on him and even said he worked harder than anyone in training. But Rooney wanted us to sign Ozil and there isn't much difference in playing styles between the two.

It's actually baffling they are like this. At least Ferdinand (despite being an absolute top class defender) is gone, Rooney won't get away with that under Van Gaal.

Well keep in mind this was before Kagawa came to the club so as you noted, Ferdinand changed his opinion on Kagawa when he arrived which isnt uncommon.

 

[NMF]

Well keep in mind this was before Kagawa came to the club so as you noted, Ferdinand changed his opinion on Kagawa when he arrived which isnt uncommon.

Fair enough, what was the reason Ferdinand didn't want him?

 

[Gladiator]

Fair enough, what was the reason Ferdinand didn't want him?

Both he and Rooney didnt want to deviate from the tried and trusted methods United had been working with. Shinji's arrival was supposed to be a move towards something new. Partly why I'm not surprised he's struggled a bit

 

[NMF]

Both he and Rooney didnt want to deviate from the tried and trusted methods United had been working with. Shinji's arrival was supposed to be a move towards something new. Partly why I'm not surprised he's struggled a bit

That actually bothers me a lot. It seemed SAF was trying to modernize the squad, he goes out and buys a player in Kagawa which his never signed before, went after Hazard who's one of the new breed of "modern wingers" same can be said with Lucas.

 

[Sherzad]

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

He does come off as either a little arrogant or a little thick, doesn't he? As if he doesn't quite know how to answer in a respectful and intelligent manner. I don't have a Times subscription, but there's an article in September 2013 where he blames his poor form for the 12/13 season on Ferguson. Nothing is ever his fault, is it?

When does a scouser ever accept responsibility for ANYTHING?

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

So someone who is paid to give opinions for a living moaning about someone being paid to give an opinion. Twat.

 

[devil in me]

What a load of bollocks from Cass. Scholes was asked his opinion on something, so he gave it. Simple as that. And it wasn't as if it was an opinion that was 'out there' or controversial. He was speaking perfect sense.

 

[Gladiator]

That actually bothers me a lot. It seemed SAF was trying to modernize the squad, he goes out and buys a player in Kagawa which his never signed before, went after Hazard who's one of the new breed of "modern wingers" same can be said with Lucas.

i'm probably way off with this generalization but to me it suits the homebodiness of some of these English players. They enjoy staying in England and the comfort it brings playing in this league. Playing for a top club I'm sure there are things which are bound to change but I'm sure they wanted to keep some things intact. Apart from not being familiar with other languages, it seems English players are more resistant to learning different ideas or systems and would rather stick to what they know.

Again I may be way off on that but just my hunch

 

[Gladiator]

What a load of bollocks from Cass. Scholes was asked his opinion on something, so he gave it. Simple as that. And it wasn't as if it was an opinion that was 'out there' or controversial. He was speaking perfect sense.

what a knob! look at his twitter! He said he didn even read what scholes said just the reaction. Cmon bob

 

[markhrad]

I know you've been on an anti Rooney crusade since you signed up and that's ok, but what exactly is disrespectful about him saying he's not interested in Scholes's comments and is only interested in his current managers?

At the end of the day Scholes is now a blogger for PaddyPower. He doesn't have to say Yes Sir Mr Scholes just because he used to play for United

Over the decades there are obviously things I would disagree with or players that I would not necessarily like. For example, I think how the Glazers bought the club was unethical even immoral. I never liked Sherringham but I respected the job he did for us.
Fergie will always have my undying respect. Gary Nev, Scholes and Giggs represent to me a dying breed of players who demonstrated loyalty above personal greed. I think Beckham if given the chance would have been equally loyal.
Scholes was horribly utilized by previous England managers I think he was an under-appreciated genius and in my opinion an even better player than Giggs.
Scholes over the years has proven to be a humble quiet guy. His recent comments, I think, represented his honest opinion and were not meant to belittle Rooney. Rooney's comments if directed against anyone else besides Nev, Scholes or Giggs would have been acceptable but he should have seeked clarification from Scholes before making them. Scholes has earned that respect.

My "anti-Rooney crusade" is in a way not even personal. I am against what he represents and in my mind how his stature has affected the club.
He came to us as a young man with immense potential and fitted in nicely with our other very good players but being England's best player the media hype got to him and in my mind he thinks that he is bigger than the club and a better player than he really is.
I am yet to see him, in a crucial big match, take over the game and win it for us. He may eventually be our all-time top scorer but that is more a function of time spent with the club than actual greatness.
Being England's best obviously makes him a cash-cow and so with owners like the Glazers he gets special treatment. Under different owners I am sure Fergie would have sent him packing long ago.
Last season was the final straw with me. Moyes made him the main man and was going to bestow upon him even greater power. Rooney is not good enough to be our main man despite what the media and his diehard fans think. HIs stature I think is detrimental to the club.
In the future I hope if we get England's best player it will be someone who does not let it get to his head in the way it has with Rooney.
I suspect Barkley, if he has a decent WC and Rooney does not, will be the next Rooney. Overhyped before actually achieving greatness.

 

[NessunDorma]

Scholes can say whatever he likes, Rooney is then entitled to say 'yeah thats nice mate, thanks'. By all means talk about it, but don't talk as if you know whats going on ie. "Fireworks with LVG", "stretford ganna leak dem storiez", "what a sensitive footballer the most sensitive we have". I mean grown men.. Come on. Put away the newspaper and get some fresh air.

They write this inflammatory shit just so the gimps in this thread can mash their fingers on the keyboard in outrage a few times a day.

It's clear that a lot of these people just intensely dislike him, and scrutinise his every move - as they themselves admit - so that they can then pounce on the smallest error or misdemeanour, real or imagined, and use it as a stick to beat him with.

So Scholes says Rooney might be past it - which is a pretty harsh to thing say about your team mate of ten years, if you ask me, especially one currently under immense pressure - and Rooney replies that he disagrees, and that he thinks the only opinion that ultimately counts is the opinion of his manager.

It was Scholes who initiated the exchange, not Rooney, and Scholes who started with the criticisms, not Rooney.

And yet it's all 'Scholes is just being honest here, while Rooney is being disrespectful'.

Being disrespectful for simply defending himself against the charge that he's over the hill?

It has agenda written all over it.

Meanwhile:

 

[NessunDorma]

I am yet to see him, in a crucial big match, take over the game and win it for us. He may eventually be our all-time top scorer but that is more a function of time spent with the club than actual greatness.

Did you watch the CL quarter-final away to Chelsea in 2011, in which Rooney dominated them and scored the winning goal? The last 16 CL tie away to AC Milan in 2010, in which Rooney destroyed them? The CL semi-final away to Schalke in 2011, in which Rooney got a goal and an assist, and was superb in giving us the platform to go on to the final? Did you watch the League Cup semi-final against City in 2010, in which Rooney was immense, scoring a last minute winner? The league game at the Etihad last season, in which Rooney fired us into a 0-2 lead?

Because he was a key component in us winning all of those crucial big matches. But my guess is that you'll no doubt deny that these were in any way 'big matches', or say that Rooney wasn't that good in them anyway.

 

[villain]

Of course it's agenda.

Rooney was supposed to win England at least one world cup by now.
So the media are never going to give him a fair time, and England fans lap it up, and so do our fans unfortunately.

 

[#07]

Did you watch the CL quarter-final away to Chelsea in 2011, in which Rooney dominated them and scored the winning goal? The last 16 CL tie away to AC Milan in 2010, in which Rooney destroyed them? The CL semi-final away to Schalke in 2011, in which Rooney got a goal and an assist, and was superb in giving us the platform to go on to the final? Did you watch the League Cup semi-final against City in 2010, in which Rooney was immense, scoring a last minute winner? The league game at the Etihad last season, in which Rooney fired us into a 0-2 lead?

Because he was a key component in us winning all of those crucial big matches. But my guess is that you'll no doubt deny that these were in any way 'big matches', or say that Rooney wasn't that good in them anyway.

Rooney last commanding performance came in 2012. That's two years ago now. Scholes said he thought Rooney may have peaked and questioned whether his physical condition can sustain the same level of output we saw from him 2 years ago. I'd have to say I agree. Even in the 3-2 at the Etihad Rooney didn't dominate the game. We played well as a unit but the difference between those performances from 2011 and 2010 you're talking about was huge. Rooney hasn't played like that for years. He's capable in bursts of great things but I can't remember a wonderful 90 minutes from him in either of the last two seasons. For that reason I think Scholes was right to ask the question about Rooney. Now, its up to Rooney to answer it if he can.

I don't think its a bad think Rooney's dismissed it, in fact what I question about Rooney is his inability to dismiss it. If you look at all the quotes he gave on it its clear that Rooney has actually read not only what Scholes said but what the journalists wrote in response to it. He talks about journos saying Scholes was his coach etc. he's referring to bits of articles he's obviously read and recognises. That shows that actually Rooney is carrying it around in him and it makes me worry about his mentality. Rooney's always been sensitive but his ego has been growing massively out of proportion to his performances for the last couple of seasons. He can't accept any criticism at all. Keane regularly blasts United's players and has for years. Don't get your knickers in a twist about it..

 

[Acole9]

There may well be an agenda from the media but not from Scholes, he has no axe to grind with Rooney and I completely agree with what Scholes said about him he has past his best. Very disappointed to read Rooney's reaction to what he said earlier, he could've been a bit more dignified but after seeing what he's been like over the last four years does it come as any surprise.

 

[Steven Seagull]

Over the decades there are obviously things I would disagree with or players that I would not necessarily like. For example, I think how the Glazers bought the club was unethical even immoral. I never liked Sherringham but I respected the job he did for us.
Fergie will always have my undying respect. Gary Nev, Scholes and Giggs represent to me a dying breed of players who demonstrated loyalty above personal greed. I think Beckham if given the chance would have been equally loyal.
Scholes was horribly utilized by previous England managers I think he was an under-appreciated genius and in my opinion an even better player than Giggs.
Scholes over the years has proven to be a humble quiet guy. His recent comments, I think, represented his honest opinion and were not meant to belittle Rooney. Rooney's comments if directed against anyone else besides Nev, Scholes or Giggs would have been acceptable but he should have seeked clarification from Scholes before making them. Scholes has earned that respect.

My "anti-Rooney crusade" is in a way not even personal. I am against what he represents and in my mind how his stature has affected the club.
He came to us as a young man with immense potential and fitted in nicely with our other very good players but being England's best player the media hype got to him and in my mind he thinks that he is bigger than the club and a better player than he really is.
I am yet to see him, in a crucial big match, take over the game and win it for us. He may eventually be our all-time top scorer but that is more a function of time spent with the club than actual greatness.
Being England's best obviously makes him a cash-cow and so with owners like the Glazers he gets special treatment. Under different owners I am sure Fergie would have sent him packing long ago.
Last season was the final straw with me. Moyes made him the main man and was going to bestow upon him even greater power. Rooney is not good enough to be our main man despite what the media and his diehard fans think. HIs stature I think is detrimental to the club.
In the future I hope if we get England's best player it will be someone who does not let it get to his head in the way it has with Rooney.
I suspect Barkley, if he has a decent WC and Rooney does not, will be the next Rooney. Overhyped before actually achieving greatness.

Get a grip. Rooney isn't going to call up Scholes from America to ask him to clarify his comments. He's entitled to them and Rooney is perfectly entitled to not give a shit about them. Not everyone hangs on Scholesy's every word you know.

 

[NessunDorma]

Rooney last commanding performance came in 2012. That's two years ago now.

But the poster I was responding to had clearly said that he'd 'yet to see him, in a crucial big match, take over the game and win it for us'. Not just recently, but ever.

That is patent, agenda driven bullshit.

 

[markhrad]

Did you watch the CL quarter-final away to Chelsea in 2011, in which Rooney dominated them and scored the winning goal? The last 16 CL tie away to AC Milan in 2010, in which Rooney destroyed them? The CL semi-final away to Schalke in 2011, in which Rooney got a goal and an assist, and was superb in giving us the platform to go on to the final? Did you watch the League Cup semi-final against City in 2010, in which Rooney was immense, scoring a last minute winner?

Because he was a key component in us winning all of those crucial big matches. But my guess is that you'll no doubt deny that these were in any way 'big matches', or say that Rooney wasn't that good in them anyway.

You have only selected a portion of my post but I hope you appreciate my general point.
Of course I watched all those games. I do not remember them in detail he had good games but the terms you use are an exaggeration. Even so look how few examples you found.
I was accused of being anti-Rooney and I just tried to clarify my position. He is a good-very good player. I will admit that, although at times he can be dire.
I just think he is over-rated and in some ways detrimental to the club.

 

[Adebesi]

To call Rooney's comments in response to Scholes' disrespectful is absurd in my opinion.

@markhrad, in your long post above you dont really explain why you think they were? You said he should have sought clarification from Scholes before responding but
a) he cant help that a journalist put the question to him and he had to say something
b) What Scholes said is pretty self explanatory, I dont see why he would need to clarify it further
c) how do you know he hasnt spoken to Scholes about it anyway? Im sure he has his number and
d) what the hell is he supposed to say? "He is right, I am way past my best. More fool Man United for just giving my fat ass a massive payrise!"

Come on mate, he gave as diplomatic an answer as any press officer could ever have scripted for him.

 

[NessunDorma]

I was accused of being anti-Rooney

Because you blatantly are.

Here's you in your own words:

Since the mid-late 80s I have seen nearly every televised Utd game. During that time no-one has infuriated me as much as Rooney. In fact I do not recall ever disliking a player before.
As a result, when it comes to him I have become hypervigilant. I basically see his every move, his facial expressions etc.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rooney-vs-van-gaal.391019/page-7#post-15740018

You are as good as admitting that you intensely dislike him, and this leads you to watching him extremely closely, probably looking for any fault, real or imagined, you can then use to beat him with.

It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't let your obsessive hatred of the guy cloud your judgement of his abilities.

 

[northbynorthwest]

this is indicative of the problem at the club. You have all these ex players making silly comments about the club, be it the players, managers, training methods and so on. I see echoes of liverpool during the 90s, when all there soldiers had an opinion about every single thing at the club.

 

[Adebesi]

The idea of one of our fans being hypervigilant in examining Rooney's facial expressions does amuse me I have to say.

 

[markhrad]

But the poster I was responding to had clearly said that he'd 'yet to see him, in a crucial big match, take over the game and win it for us'. Not just recently, but ever.

That is patent, agenda driven bullshit.

I am surprised at your harshness. Allow me to respond. How were Rooney performances in our previous CL finals? How were his performances in the CL games in which we were eliminated? Those matches to me were crucial.
Anyway this detracts from the point I was trying to make.

 

[NessunDorma]

I am surprised at your harshness. Allow me to respond. How were Rooney performances in our previous CL finals? How were his performances in the CL games in which we were eliminated? Those matches to me were crucial.
Anyway this detracts from the point I was trying to make.

markhard: Rooney has never won a big game for us.

Me: *Lists some of the big games he's been a key influence on us winning, including CL quarter-finals and semi-finals, and games against title rivals*

markhard: But the ones in which he wasn't an influence were more important!

Utterly laughable. And if you think that's harsh, well i'm sorry, but i'm just giving my honest opinion.

And it's you who's being disrespectful for disagreeing with it.

 

[Nighteyes]

So Scholes says Rooney is past it. Rooney says that's his opinion and disagrees with it.

I don't see anything wrong on either side here

 

[markhrad]

markhard: Rooney has never won a big game for us.

Me: *Lists some of the big games he's been a key influence on us winning, including CL quarter-finals and semi-finals, and games against title rivals*

markhard: But the ones in which he wasn't an influence were more important!

Utterly laughable. And if you think that's harsh, well i'm sorry, but i'm just giving my honest opinion.

And it's you who's being disrespectful for disagreeing with it.

You are stubborn. You will not let this go. How about this then: He RARELY takes over and wins us a crucial big game.
My point was and remains that Rooney is over-rated and over-hyped

 

[#07]

But the poster I was responding to had clearly said that he'd 'yet to see him, in a crucial big match, take over the game and win it for us'. Not just recently, but ever.

That is patent, agenda driven bullshit.

Missed that. Apols.

The idea that Rooney has never been a match winner for us in big games is totally false.

 

[Lane]

I'm not supporting the Cass twat obviously, but i do find it a bit strange that a guy who barely gave an interview in his entire professional career now being frequent guest at Sky and even blogging for Paddy. I mean that his business, and whatever he does i will respect, but it's just strange is all.

 

[Adebesi]

@markhrad Overrated and overhyped he may be but you are the one who admits to sitting there watching him like a hawk whenever we play. if I was you mate I would make a conscious decision to stop closely scrutinising everything he does, get off his back and just enjoy the game. Perhaps you cant see the wood for the trees. If someone is overhyped the solution isnt to dedicate your life to finding his faults, that is in a sense letting the hype win. Just ignore him, Im sure you'll be much happier for it.

 

[Lane]

You are stubborn. You will not let this go. How about this then: He RARELY takes over and wins us a crucial big game.
My point was and remains that Rooney is over-rated and over-hyped

Care to name 5 players who done it more in the last 10 years?

 

[Cassidy]

I'm not supporting the Cass twat obviously, but i do find it a bit strange that a guy who barely gave an interview in his entire professional career now being frequent guest at Sky and even blogging for Paddy. I mean that his business, and whatever he does i will respect, but it's just strange is all.

He now has no income from football, which would explain it.

 

[Nighteyes]

I'm not supporting the Cass twat obviously, but i do find it a bit strange that a guy who barely gave an interview in his entire professional career now being frequent guest at Sky and even blogging for Paddy. I mean that his business, and whatever he does i will respect, but it's just strange is all.

Nothing wrong with it. He's retired and can do as he pleases as far as I am concerned.

 

[Sherzad]

Fare response from Rooney. What was he suppose to say, yeah I have passed my peak I am just a fat washed out talent who is raking up millions.

Through out his career Rooney played as a team player - he did all the dog work for the likes off Ronaldo/tevez/beraba. Played in midfield/striker/winger but still he is 33 goals away to break sir bobby charltons record. I know I am stating all the obvious here, but we just need to appreciate what he did for us through out his career as well. For scholes to come out like this and question his fitness and form when Rooney is involve in World Cup preparation - is a bit silly!

 

[NessunDorma]

My point was and remains that Rooney is over-rated and over-hyped

Maybe once over, but if anything he's underrated these days.

I don't know if you read many non-United football forums, but there are a huge number of people out there who think that not only does Rooney deserve to be dropped from England's first XI, but from the squad entirely. And that the likes of Rickie Lambert and Adam Lallana are now much better options than he is.

Get that? People are now seriously starting to argue that Rickie Lambert is better than Wayne Rooney. Rickie Lambert. Better than Wayne Rooney. Let it sink in for a moment.

Have a look at the comments under this article, for example, if you don't believe me.

 

[markhrad]

@markhrad Overrated and overhyped he may be but you are the one who admits to sitting there watching him like a hawk whenever we play. if I was you mate I would make a conscious decision to stop closely scrutinising everything he does, get off his back and just enjoy the game. Perhaps you cant see the wood for the trees. If someone is overhyped the solution isnt to dedicate your life to finding his faults, that is in a sense letting the hype win. Just ignore him, Im sure you'll be much happier for it.

Cant help it I notice everything. Job-related. I think the thought of him being made captain under Moyes threw me over the edge.
It is shameful to admit but much of my life does revolve around Utd.
Anyway before I am forced to seek counseling I will back off a bit from the whole Rooney thing. But just a bit

 

[Adebesi]

Are you a professional snooper? A papparazzi? A private detective? Do you sit hidden outside people's homes, being generally observant and waiting for things to happen? Staking people out? Using your keen observational skills?

I have the opposite problem, as my wife would probably tell you.

 

[markhrad]

Are you a professional snooper? A papparazzi? A private detective? Do you sit hidden outside people's homes, being generally observant and waiting for things to happen? Staking people out? Using your keen observational skills?

I have the opposite problem, as my wife would probably tell you.

I am a Radiologist. So my job is mainly about observation, logical deduction, inference and elimination.
Good thing it does not require personal opinion. Right?