I think I'm_always_right is correct here. Love Rooney but some people get a little carried away with their platitudes and assessments.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter gooDevil
- Start date
- Status
I don't think he's a natural born goalscorer. He's ideal just the way we tend to use him, in behind the striker up top. He sort of has a free role in attack without needing to play with his back to goal and having overly physical defenders giving him no space. It's perfect for his skillset IMO. It gives him enough freedom when attacking to get goals and he gets involved in the buildup too which a player like him needs to stay alive in the game I think.
Except he doesn't. He plays off the midfield and keeps their passing interchanges going, which is exactly from a second striker is supposed to do. It really isn't playmaking. Carrick and Cleverley are running the game for us these days. Rooney is floating in behind Van Persie, linking up between them and him and getting on the end of things when we are in the final third.
It's as if you see him as an Ozil with goalscoring abilities of a striker, which is silly.
Disagree. There are indeed two Rooneys in terms of passing and they tend to interchange quite regularly throughout the season often not having that much to do with injuries. He's a good passer but not a special one IMO like many here seem to think so. He's quite inconsistent in this aspect. His touch is even more consistent and for me it's never really sublime like that of the tehcnically outstanding players. But that's okay for me because I don't expect it because I know he'll get goals because he is in the end a striker.
Any team will be better with their best players. I reckon we'd be worse off this seaosn without Van Persie than without Rooney. You're overrating his influence IMO.
Right enough, I'd actually forgotten about that run of form. Goals galore and he carried on his creative excellence from the following season. Shame that just sort of fizzled out once Cleverley got injured.
+ England on Wednesday as a #9, and then you can throw in that City game as one of the best big-game performances he's given for us.
His all-round performances are better. Fergie hoped for this with the Berbatov purchase but unfortunately it never materialized. Having RVP in front of him has given Rooney that extra bit of confidence, a license to be a little more adventurous. The onus of goal scoring is not solely on Rooney as it was previously, which is giving him more freedom to express himself and influence games.
My biggest concern about Rooney has always been more to do with his mental strength rather than physical attributes and skills. As United supporters we have been spoiled in the past by having players like King Eric, Becks. Keano and Ronaldo, who when things were tough, especially off the field and they were getting pelters they would have this feck you attitude that spured them on the even greater things than normal. With Rooney his off field issues always seem to drag his on field performances to unacceptable levels. Thankfully there havent been any off field issues for quite some time, but Im always worried that when the next one comes, if it does, we will be stuck with a player on a six figure salary playing at a much reduced standard, usually through his own fault.
That's because you're obsessed by his antics a few years ago with his new contract.
I've not seen much of Ozil tbh, looks an excellent player for Germany but not as good as Wayne Rooney, few are.
Playmaking is your term, I think it confuses matters because of the word playmaker which is usually a CM. When Rooney is on form everything goes through him, yes Carrick is a big influence in dictating the tempo but Rooney takes hold of games and controls them.
I think a lot of this stuff comes from people's disappointment that the explosive 18-year-old Rooney... staying with the Seven Dwarfs, let's call him Rapey Rooney... is no longer with us.
It's a shame because it stops them appreciating and enjoying one of our greatest ever players.
I've not seen much of Ozil tbh, looks an excellent player for Germany but not as good as Wayne Rooney, few are.
Playmaking is your term, I think it confuses matters because of the word playmaker which is usually a CM. When Rooney is on form everything goes through him, yes Carrick is a big influence in dictating the tempo but Rooney takes hold of games and controls them.
I think a lot of this stuff comes from people's disappointment that the explosive 18-year-old Rooney... staying with the Seven Dwarfs, let's call him Rapey Rooney... is no longer with us.
It's a shame because it stops them appreciating and enjoying one of our greatest ever players.
You've not seen much of Ozil but you're certain he's not as good as Rooney. Anyway, he's younger and has time to match or suprass Rooney. He's incredibly talented.
And I think there are many players as good as Rooney. Some even better. He is a top top player of course. But he's one of the best players in this league. When you factor in Germany, Spain and Italy, there are decent number of players in that bracket I think, which is the bracket under the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and Ronaldo.
QUOTE=Plechazunga;12947657]Playmaking is your term, I think it confuses matters because of the word playmaker which is usually a CM. When Rooney is on form everything goes through him, yes Carrick is a big influence in dictating the tempo but Rooney takes hold of games and controls them.[/QUOTE]
Rooney doesn't control games for me. He plays off other players as a link up player. A playmaker, for me, is someone who dictates the game and controls his team's overall buildup play. Rooney simply isn't such a technically profficient player IMO. Zidane wasn't a CM but he was a playmaker, because he controlled games through his reading of the game and technical superiority over others. Rooney is a goalscoring second striker who drops deep every now and then to help out. There's a big difference in my book.
And one can say to very good effect, and for good reason. Not that Rooney hasn't turned out too badly himself.
Ladies and gentlemen: the Caf
Are you having a laugh Plech?
You wrote:
"looks an excellent player for Germany but not as good as Wayne Rooney, few are."
Sounds pretty certain to me.
Looks [[an excellent player] but [not as good as Wayne Rooney]]
Looks governs the whole co-ordinate phrase.
He'll be in midfield against Madrid anyway, so let's see what he can do from there.
I agree he's looked great this season when directly behind RvP though.
I agree he's looked great this season when directly behind RvP though.
Then surely you should say something along the lines of:
Looks a good player for Germany, but I'm not sure he's as good as Wayne Rooney.
Your post was very matter of fact.
Ladies and gentleman: The caf
rofl. brilliant.
rofl. brilliant.
I am with Plech on this. When Rooney is playing well our attacks run through him and we look so much better as a team going forward. He may not have the silky elegance of Ozil but he is better than him without a doubt
Without a doubt Rooney is the most underrated United player on the Caf which is shocking
Without a doubt Rooney is the most underrated United player on the Caf which is shocking
Come on really? Every single poster on the caf thinks Rooney is a brilliant brilliant footballer.
fwiw, no-one said Özil was as good or better than Rooney.
Nope, 'looks' carries the subjective POV well enough
It's completely normal English. The structure is the same as something like:
I'm always right seems a nice bloke but a bit clueless about football.
Which is just retarded.
The amount of posters that wanted him dropped due to one bad game against Swansea was ridiculous just because we had RVP. And you suggesting Kagawa offers more in the role behind the striker than Rooney does which quite frankly is a load of rubbish.
Plech is so grammatically superior to the rest of us that we can't figure out what he's saying.
Yep, makes sense.
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeiiit. That can't be true, he is hardly underrated here, let alone the most on a team with Carrick, De Gea, Rafael, Nani, Smalling...
Personally I think the best thing that can happen to Rooney when he's not playing well is to be dropped, it puts more fire back in his belly. I'm certainly not in agreement with the people that think we should always let him play through bad form.
I think Rooney's offers more than Kagawa as a support striker, I think Kagawa is better suited to the attacking midfielder/number 10 role. Hardly that controversial.
How would you guys explain the extreme criticism and even revisionism that happened regarding Rooney's season after that dreadful Swansea game ? I've rarely seen a player's season get rubbished due to one terrible game like it happened for Rooney on this forum by a lot of members
The uncertainty's made immediately clear through that one word looks, particularly given it comes straight after "I haven't seen much of him tbh...". I agree that Özil's much closer to what Plech is describing than Rooney though, but even then he drifts in and out of games and has issues with inconsistency himself. His passing can be ropey too, I'd be surprised if Rooney's had a worse game than Özil's v Sevilla - subbed off at half-time after being non-existent in a 1-0 loss.
He does have much better technique and vision than Rooney though, and he'll orchestrate much of Madrid's attacking play when on song just like Rooney. When Rooney's on song his touch and passing are very good but he still only pulls off about 3/10 killer balls, he's just not got that precise vision and delicate technique to pull things off that the likes of Kagawa, Silva, Cazorla, Mata, Özil, Hazard etc. do. Of course none of them can match his productivity and none of them are second strikers, but the likes of Cazorla, Özil and Silva can run the game in a way Rooney doesn't, IMO.
I do agree he is the one who always takes the responsibility to orchestrate things though. And he definitely gets a hard time on here. The inconsistency thing mainly is my biggest issue because Özil, Silva and co. have terrible games much more often than people realise. It's inevitable that when these players have a poor game it'll be far more detrimental to the team than a forward or winger having a poor game, and it's inevitable that they'll take more of the blame, but it leads to disproportionate levels of criticism/praise. People see less of the fancy foreign players' poor games and are less focused on them when they're playing poorly anyway, whereas when Rooney's off his game it's the focus of the post-match criticism. Rooney isn't particularly inconsistent and most players take a few weeks to get back into full form after injuries - it just so happens that Rooney tends to be injured more often than Silva, Özil etc.
He does have much better technique and vision than Rooney though, and he'll orchestrate much of Madrid's attacking play when on song just like Rooney. When Rooney's on song his touch and passing are very good but he still only pulls off about 3/10 killer balls, he's just not got that precise vision and delicate technique to pull things off that the likes of Kagawa, Silva, Cazorla, Mata, Özil, Hazard etc. do. Of course none of them can match his productivity and none of them are second strikers, but the likes of Cazorla, Özil and Silva can run the game in a way Rooney doesn't, IMO.
I do agree he is the one who always takes the responsibility to orchestrate things though. And he definitely gets a hard time on here. The inconsistency thing mainly is my biggest issue because Özil, Silva and co. have terrible games much more often than people realise. It's inevitable that when these players have a poor game it'll be far more detrimental to the team than a forward or winger having a poor game, and it's inevitable that they'll take more of the blame, but it leads to disproportionate levels of criticism/praise. People see less of the fancy foreign players' poor games and are less focused on them when they're playing poorly anyway, whereas when Rooney's off his game it's the focus of the post-match criticism. Rooney isn't particularly inconsistent and most players take a few weeks to get back into full form after injuries - it just so happens that Rooney tends to be injured more often than Silva, Özil etc.
I don't really get why people are comparing the two of them anyway, purely because they play behind the striker in the middle of the park? You only need to watch a half hour of each to figure out that they're very different players, both brilliant in their own way.
I was trying to think of a player from the 1990s generation of strikers that had a game as varied as Rooney. That is, top scorer for his club while doing much of his best work ~30 yards from goal. There were so many great, great strikers in that decade, but I didn't watch enough of them, particularly the Serie A and La Liga ones, to get a sense of their "skill sets" (as we're using that term for consistency's sake).
I (lazily) think Rooney is a rough template for the next generations of strikers. It seemed he just assumed that role as part of his natural game but it's now very fashionable to have a striker who can come deep, receive the ball and turn with it to bring team-mates into play.
I (lazily) think Rooney is a rough template for the next generations of strikers. It seemed he just assumed that role as part of his natural game but it's now very fashionable to have a striker who can come deep, receive the ball and turn with it to bring team-mates into play.
I think even in the futur it's going to be difficult to find a player who will be as versatile as and as good at it as Rooney.
If we're going proper English here, remind me again what the word "looks" means in the English language? Maybe I've been living in Sweden too long for all this.
Nah, the more games Rooney plays the better he gets and Fergie himself agrees with that. Besides you don't drop a player for one bad game and certainly not a world class player like Rooney.
I don't think it's even close to be honest. Rooney provides more going forward and defensively.
I am not sure about that. Silva and Ozil are brilliant players but imo they don't run games like Rooney can. Rooney for me not only runs our game when he is playing well but he also has the ability to drive the whole team on something which the the other two don't have.
this is so unfair. It was a very normal and simple sentence that no-one would have even noticed had amol not misunderstood it.I explain it by most football fans being morons
Looks in this case means "appears to" or "seems to". Or at least it looks that way to me.
Apparent
1. Clearly visible or understood; obvious.
2. Seeming real or true, but not necessarily so.
Apparent
1. Clearly visible or understood; obvious.
2. Seeming real or true, but not necessarily so.
Well as I said, I disagree, I think Rooney gets angry when he's drops and that makes him instantly a better player. Only my opinion of course.
I don't think Rooney provides more defensively just cause every now and then he'll run to left back like a mad man. I think Kagawa offers much better ball retention.
Rooney doesn't "run" our games, where has anyone got this idea from?
Ozil will blow his load and would look towards his bench before half time if he was asked to do half the work Rooney does for us.
There is no compassion between the two. It's insane how criminally underrated is Rooney by his own fans. Blows my freaking mind.
Sparky_Hughes hate is almost at unhealthy levels.
There is no compassion between the two. It's insane how criminally underrated is Rooney by his own fans. Blows my freaking mind.
Sparky_Hughes hate is almost at unhealthy levels.
So just to be clear, Plech, Ozil doesn't look as good a player as Rooney? Well, that doesn't mean much now does it given you haven't even seen much if him
He's really not underrated. I don't know a single poster on here that doesn't think he's a brilliant brilliant footballer.
He works very hard for Madrid actually, it's why he's so knackered.
For Germany he has no problem playing full games every three/four days at tournaments because he's not given as much defensive responsibility.
But yes, Rooney does have higher fitness levels and is able to run around a lot more. That doesn't make him a better player though.
- Status