Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

[Plechazunga]

For me his dribbling aint as good as many of the best number 10's and his incisive passing isn't either, that's why I prefer him up top.

His dribbling's definitely declined, and he doesn't really try it that much anymore.

His passing though is sensational. If by incisive you mean defence-splitting balls, then no he's not going to do that every week, but not many number tens can... and he still does it a reasonable amount.

 

[I'm always right]

His passing though is sensational. If by incisive you mean defence-splitting balls, then no he's not going to do that every week, but not many number tens can... and he still does it a reasonable amount.

His incisive passing is far from sensational. The likes of Giggs, Kagawa, Xavi Hernandez, Götze, Özil, Silva, Mata and tonnes more are miles better at it than Rooney.

Rooney has great pings though which many of those don't.

 

[shaggy]

He's been outstanding, but no-one's as influential on the team as Wayne, without him we tend to look laboured and uninspired.

We did well without Rooney in the month or so he was out. 4-3 against Newcastle, 2-0 against West Brom, 4-0 against Wigan, 2-2 against West Ham (no RvP until late on) and 2-1 against Liverpool. The last game before he got injured against Swansea we drew and when he came back we scrapped a 1-0 home win against WH and then another scrappy 1-1 draw against Spurs. We can certainly play just fine without Rooney.... providing RvP is playing.

They can take our game to another level if both are on the field.

 

[paceme]

Kagawa contributes more to the midfield than Rooney in that role.

Not even close for me. I don't even know how you could think that.

 

[I'm always right]

We did well without Rooney in the month or so he was out. 4-3 against Newcastle, 2-0 against West Brom, 4-0 against Wigan, 2-2 against West Ham (no RvP until late on) and 2-1 against Liverpool. The last game before he got injured against Swansea we drew and when he came back we scrapped a 1-0 home win against WH and then another scrappy 1-1 draw against Spurs. We can certainly play just fine without Rooney.... providing RvP is playing.

They can take our game to another level if both are on the field.

Spoken like a man with no bias, I like it. Bang on shaggy.

 

[Plechazunga]

We did well without Rooney in the month or so he was out. 4-3 against Newcastle, 2-0 against West Brom, 4-0 against Wigan, 2-2 against West Ham (no RvP until late on) and 2-1 against Liverpool. The last game before he got injured against Swansea we drew and when he came back we scrapped a 1-0 home win against WH and then another scrappy 1-1 draw against Spurs. We can certainly play just fine without Rooney.... providing RvP is playing.

They can take our game to another level if both are on the field.

We were shit in all those games apart from Wigan.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I'm sorry but I gotta laugh, what a crock.

As pletch said, you made him sound more like Kuyt. I don't buy this unique skill-set nonsense and despite the fact that I am a huge fan of Rooney (obviously), if I had to choose between one of Rooney or RVP missing the games vs. Madrid, well it wouldn't be the Dutchman.

When I say Rooney has a unique skill set, I mean that for us he is both a player that our play goes through and also has an incredible goal scoring record.

If he were to leave you'd have to replace him with a player that could be both the heartbeat of our team and our creative force whilst simultaneously also scoring a boat load of goals. I think that's a lot tougher on a player than what would be asked of them were they to replace RVP and I can't think of any player that would immediately spring to mind that would obviously excel at it to the same degree that Rooney has for us.

 

[Plechazunga]

Spot on. That's the key thing - he both scores goals and runs games.

I wonder if there's another player in the world who's so good, so vital to his side, and so unappreciated by his own fans.

 

[I'm always right]

Not even close for me. I don't even know how you could think that.

I don't know how you could think the opposite tbh, Kagawa has always played deeper than Rooney in that role and helps out the midfield more, is always more of an option/link etc.

 

[I'm always right]

I wonder if there's another player in the world who's so good, so vital to his side, and so unappreciated by his own fans.

He's an awesome footballer, far from bloody unappreciated.

 

[Plechazunga]

It's a while since I've managed to provoke sleepy and rolleyes in the same post. My work here is done.

 

[paceme]

I can't be bothered to explain the difference between a number 10 and the way Rooney plays and adds more at midnight. I struggle to see how anyone can see otherwise though.

 

[Amar__]

What's your point? He plays deeper than the usual number 10, in what could be defined as a true midfield role rather than an attacking midfield role.

That's not really true.

He plays deeper than usual number 10 just in big games, and those are probably just two games so far this season, against Chelsea and City. However, in "usual" games, he plays probably more forward number 10 role than original number 10 usally play(for example Kagawa), I would rather call it second striker role than number 10.

 

[Fergus' son]

I don't know how you could think the opposite tbh, Kagawa has always played deeper than Rooney in that role and helps out the midfield more, is always more of an option/link etc.

I think the slight difference in Rooney's Number ten style and Kagawas is balanced up enough by the slight difference in the two players quality, I think Rooney is top notch whilst Kagawa is a level below (for now). So if I could only choose one or the other to play it would be Rooney ,even if we did need a more natural midfield role and Kagawa is more suited to that.

 

[I'm always right]

That's not really true.

He plays deeper than usual number 10 just in big games, and those are probably just two games so far this season, against Chelsea and City. However, in "usual" games, he plays probably more forward number 10 role than original number 10 usally play(for example Kagawa), I would rather call it second striker rola than number 10.

Is correct Amar.

 

[I'm always right]

I think the slight difference in Rooney's Number ten style and Kagawas is balanced up enough by the slight difference in the two players quality, I think Rooney is top notch whilst Kagawa is a level below (for now). So if I could only choose one or the other to play it would be Rooney ,even if we did need a more natural midfield role and Kagawa is more suited to that.

Depends on the game for me. Were we to be playing a game where possession is key, I'd go for Kagawa in that role. We tried Rooney there vs. Barca in that final but I still think we'd have faired better in that game with Rooney up top and a Kagawa type in the 10 role. Obviously that's all guesswork though.

 

[paceme]

Well done, you've just repeated the same post you made 5 posts ago.

Is it my turn now?

Why do you feel the need to act like a little girl when discussing something? Getting worked up because we disagree on how much a player does or how he does it but both agreeing he is great is odd.

 

[AttackingFlair]

Rooney was very good in that role vs Barca, he wasn't to blame.

 

[I'm always right]

Rooney was very good in that role vs Barca, he wasn't to blame.

Agreed. Who said he was?

 

[Cantona'sCollar]

The way you talk about him - heartbeat of the team, defending to the last breath, contributing on the wing, dropping deep etc. - you make him sound like Dirk Kuyt.

I disagree that RVP is a 'much more skilled player on the ball'. Rooney's touch can be a bit ropey when he hasn't had a run of games, but when he's in form it's sublime. RVP's shooting technique is better, no question, but the way Rooney can bring a ball down and shift it away from his man in one movement is at least as good as him.

Yes Rooney does the gritty stuff as well, but he's also amazing on the ball and a superb passer, as well as an excellent finisher.

What he's lost is, without doubt, his explosiveness - his ability to burst past players with acceleration and footwork. That's a real shame. But he's still an absolutely brilliant footballer.

I know it sounds a bit Dirk Kuyt, but i'm not totally wrong there am I? I'm not saying he's limited to that, simply that he brings that work rate hardly any other forwards do (Cavani is similar to Rooney here).

Rooney certainly on form has an excellent touch, but Van Persie for me pips it because it is always spot on, week in week out. That said, Rooney is always capable (even on bad days) of pulling out special touches like the one away to Villa in the 09/10 season, where he hit the post. Amazing touch.

He does the gritty stuff well, never said he doesn't bring quality on the ball - quite the opposite, just I feel that Van Persie is better there. Rooney's long passing and weighting of balls is better than any of his competitors, and that is what I meant by heartbeat in a way. He has such a range, it's sometimes very Scholes-like.

You're right on the explosiveness, it's something that will show itself once every few games, but ultimately those moments are few and far between. He's very Totti like now. However, I do think his change was for the better, he is like a nucleus to us. (Although the old Rooney, eg. Euro 2004 Rooney, was way more entertaining, and that's what people miss I guess)

 

[Spoony]

I reckon I'm Always Right needs to fully appreciate Rooney. Calling him fat and overrated is poor form, especially from an ex division 5 footballer from Liechtenstein...who should know a lot better.

 

[paceme]

I think the fact that in the second post I actually say I'm not going to expand since it is midnight (I.e I am one tired bloke) explains the repetition. You didn't need to point anything out, I'm sure other posters can read themselves since they are on a forum. 'Little girl' was in reference to the weird bitchy 'Is it my turn now' I could of said stop being a twat in an attempt to win a discussion but opted for little girl since it sounds nicer.

 

[I'm always right]

I reckon I'm Always Right needs to fully appreciate Rooney. Calling him fat and overrated is poor form, especially from an ex division 5 footballer from Liechtenstein...who should know a lot better.

too true

 

[Cantona'sCollar]

I'm sorry but I gotta laugh, what a crock.

As pletch said, you made him sound more like Kuyt. I don't buy this unique skill-set nonsense and despite the fact that I am a huge fan of Rooney (obviously), if I had to choose between one of Rooney or RVP missing the games vs. Madrid, well it wouldn't be the Dutchman.

What's with the ? As I said above, it's not that he's limited to it - simply he has that over the other forwards of his type. No need to be so dismissive. I understand anyone saying they would rather Rooney was absent for the Real games than Van Persie, but I still think he, like Van Persie, reaches another level in these pressure-cooker moments and even when playing badly, raises the players around him it seems. That is vital in big games, like Madrid. He has a bit of an aura about him, although Van Persie for me is technically better (not by much).
Edit: Let's not jinx this and be stuck with neither of them by the time the Madrid match comes around.

 

[paceme]

Sweet Jesus, are you for real?

 

[I'm always right]

What's with the ? As I said above, it's not that he's limited to it

Sorry CC, it was "we go into every game with a player the opposition cannot match in terms of the ability to change a game regardless of position or form" that had me. I mean really, our opposition may have the likes of Mata, Tevez, Aguero, Toure, Suarez, Ronaldo, Özil, Götze, Hazard, Robben, hell even Bale. Many of our opponents have players than can match Rooney in terms of the ability to change a game regardless of position or form.

 

[gza the genius]

I like Rooney as a player but he can be very frustrating and I'm not so sure he's as instrumental as some would have you believe.

I remember seeing someone say in the thread asking if Rooney should come straight back in to the side that it didn't matter how bad Rooney was playing he was still our most influential player and was worth playing. Hyperbole like that simply isn't accurate. Yeah, when Rooney as playing well he's extremely important and can change the shape of a game all on his own, but when out of form Rooney can be disastrous.

The problem with Rooney is the only way he'll get in form is by playing him through his bad form, it inevitably is worth it though.

 

[Cantona'sCollar]

Sorry CC, it was "we go into every game with a player the opposition cannot match in terms of the ability to change a game regardless of position or form" that had me. I mean really, our opposition may have the likes of Mata, Tevez, Aguero, Toure, Suarez, Ronaldo, Özil, Götze, Hazard, Robben, hell even Bale. Many of our opponents have players than can match Rooney in terms of the ability to change a game regardless of position or form.

Fair enough on that point, for sure all of those mentioned can change a game in a split second at any time. But Rooney for me has done it in the big games (See Milan, City etc) more so than any of those mentioned bar, perhaps, Ronaldo. We'll agree to disagree I guess, but my overall point is that it may well be the case that Rooney is more valuable to us than he would be to any other club, because he suits us so much. Madrid need not a Rooney (although they would take him in a flash I presume) because the forwards do a forward's job, due to the midfield doing the midfield's job - Rooney has clearly helped out with our little issue in the midfield recently, even when upfront on paper, to tremendous effect.

I can understand why you'd rather Rooney was absent over Van Persie for the Real game, but I think the effect Rooney has on the players around him just about trumps Van Persie's brilliant technique and consistency - I just hope we don't have to choose!

 

[wr8_utd]

Possibly our best away performance of the season:

http://videa.hu/videok/sport/manchester-united-v-wigan-athletic-1-2013-4-0-1b4DH3qfahoSavfW

No Rooney.

Our most important win this season. City 3-2. Rooney? 2 goals

 

[wr8_utd]

I know it sounds a bit Dirk Kuyt, but i'm not totally wrong there am I? I'm not saying he's limited to that, simply that he brings that work rate hardly any other forwards do (Cavani is similar to Rooney here).

Rooney certainly on form has an excellent touch, but Van Persie for me pips it because it is always spot on, week in week out. That said, Rooney is always capable (even on bad days) of pulling out special touches like the one away to Villa in the 09/10 season, where he hit the post. Amazing touch.

He does the gritty stuff well, never said he doesn't bring quality on the ball - quite the opposite, just I feel that Van Persie is better there. Rooney's long passing and weighting of balls is better than any of his competitors, and that is what I meant by heartbeat in a way. He has such a range, it's sometimes very Scholes-like.

You're right on the explosiveness, it's something that will show itself once every few games, but ultimately those moments are few and far between. He's very Totti like now. However, I do think his change was for the better, he is like a nucleus to us. (Although the old Rooney, eg. Euro 2004 Rooney, was way more entertaining, and that's what people miss I guess)

That Rooney was sacrificed for a certain Ronaldo.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

RVP might be more likely to create

He doesn't dictate our game. He's a second striker. He's not good enough a passer to be a playmaker for me. He is a second striker who helps out a bit by dropping deep but in general, plays as the second forward/goalscorer of the team.

Iniesta dictates games. Xavi dictates games. Pirlo and Scholes dicate games. As does Silva. These players are sensational passers, not Rooney IMO. Rooney in a link, like Gerrard was when he played behind Torres, with more emphasis on goalscoring. He has other strengths, he links up well and scores goals which is important given he's a forward mostly.

 

[I'm always right]

Our most important win this season. City 3-2. Rooney? 2 goals

I don't get your point?

My point was that we can play very well without Rooney, what exactly is yours? that we play well with Rooney, well I know that, obviously.

 

[Forevergiggs]

Rooney is the most influential player in the team. He sacrifices more for the team than any other player. He drops in the midfield, provides an extra body and wins the ball back. He adds some steel to our midfield, that it generally lacks. He drops back and provides cover and help to Evra in defense. He moves forward and positively impacts the attacking play with both goals and assists. He makes us tick more than anyone else.

 

[I'm always right]

Rooney is the most influential player in the team. He sacrifices more for the team than any other player. He drops in the midfield, provides an extra body and wins the ball back. He adds some steel to our midfield, that it generally lacks. He drops back and provides cover and help to Evra in defense. He moves forward and positively impacts the attacking play with both goals and assists. He makes us tick more than anyone else.

see below:

He doesn't dictate our game. He's a second striker. He's not good enough a passer to be a playmaker for me. He is a second striker who helps out a bit by dropping deep but in general, plays as the second forward/goalscorer of the team.

Iniesta dictates games. Xavi dictates games. Pirlo and Scholes dicate games. As does Silva. These players are sensational passers, not Rooney IMO. Rooney is a link, like Gerrard was when he played behind Torres, with more emphasis on goalscoring. He has other strengths, he links up well and scores goals which is important given he's a forward mostly.

 

[Brwned]

Anyone else think his recent all-round performances have been better than anything we saw from him last season? Having van Persie alongside him for the next 3 years at least will end up bringing about the best form in his career, IMO. And it's inevitable we'll see them break van Nistelrooy and Solskjaer's record of 61 goals in all competitions.

 

[shaggy]

Agreed, which is why Rooney's best moments of play the last couple of games have unsurprisingly been wonderful bits of play in and around the box - the goal against Fulham at home (plus other chances hitting the post, saved by goalie), the goal against Southampton and the goal against Fulham away. It's a cliche but he's a natural born goalscorer, not a playmaker. Rooney tracking back to help the midfield is not making the most out of him.

 

[shaggy]

Anyone else think his recent all-round performances have been better than anything we saw from him last season? Having van Persie alongside him for the next 3 years at least will end up bringing about the best form in his career, IMO. And it's inevitable we'll see them break van Nistelrooy and Solskjaer's record of 61 goals in all competitions.

Agreed as well, although he was pretty magical at the start of the season (last year), which was the best form I've ever seen him in.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Anyone else think his recent all-round performances have been better than anything we saw from him last season? Having van Persie alongside him for the next 3 years at least will end up bringing about the best form in his career, IMO. And it's inevitable we'll see them break van Nistelrooy and Solskjaer's record of 61 goals in all competitions.

Not sure about that. It's just been two games for us right? Or are you talking about this season as a whole?

 

[Carl]

Anyone else think his recent all-round performances have been better than anything we saw from him last season? Having van Persie alongside him for the next 3 years at least will end up bringing about the best form in his career, IMO. And it's inevitable we'll see them break van Nistelrooy and Solskjaer's record of 61 goals in all competitions.

He looks to have more of a spring in his step this season. Definitely good signs so far.

 

[Plechazunga]

He doesn't dictate our game. He's a second striker. He's not good enough a passer to be a playmaker for me. He is a second striker who helps out a bit by dropping deep but in general, plays as the second forward/goalscorer of the team.

Iniesta dictates games. Xavi dictates games. Pirlo and Scholes dicate games. As does Silva. These players are sensational passers, not Rooney IMO. Rooney in a link, like Gerrard was when he played behind Torres, with more emphasis on goalscoring. He has other strengths, he links up well and scores goals which is important given he's a forward mostly.

He runs the game from second striker position. That's what's amazing and (nearly) unique.

Re the passing, the thing is there are two Rooneys. There's Rooney when he's been out for a few weeks with injury or suspension or holiday, and there's the one who's had a few games back. The first one has slightly heavy touch and mislays his passes, the second has sublime touch and brilliant passing.

The problem is that he gets injured a couple of times a season, so that makes for about 10 games of Ropey Rooney. Even Ropey Rooney though scores goals, and is a catalyst for the team to play much better, the side's confidence level just goes up a couple of notches when Rooney's on the pitch and that comes out in the general play.