Rooney wasn't as unfit as some would like us to think. He could pass the ball and take set pieces without any problems. Even Moyes wouldn't play him if he wasn't able to strike the ball. He was just very poor.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter gooDevil
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Managers are held accountable for playing someone who isn't fit in our most important game of the season. Now Rooney is accountable 100% for his misses but not accountable for being on the pitch when he shouldn't have been. Let's twist this Mystic Meg bullshit about RVP not missing around and say Rooney wouldn't have messed up the shot if he was fit. It's Rooney's fault for the miss but Moyes' fault for having him on the pitch.
Our support has become pathetic this season (not aimed at you in particular). What's with this feeling that anyone who rathers or even defends Rooney is a RVP hater? How the hell can we know that RVP would have scored those chances? Anyone with that ability can feel free to let me know the lotto numbers for this week. That's the point I think Pogue is making. He ain't saying he wouldn't have scored he is simply pointing out that RVP has missed chances of that magnitude in the past.
RVP is not fit, that's why he didn't play. Rooney also isn't fit yet Moyes decided to put him out there and yet again we are left to wonder what might have been because of our manager yet again proving he is out of his depth. If Rooney was 100% fit then he alone is to blame but he wasn't so Moyes has to shoulder some of the blame too.
Managers are held accountable for playing someone who isn't fit in our most important game of the season. Now Rooney is accountable for his misses but not accountable for being on the pitch when he shouldn't have been. Let's twist this Mystic Meg bullshit about RVP not missing around and say Rooney wouldn't have messed up the shot if he was fit. It's Rooney's fault for the miss but Moyes' fault for having him on the pitch.
Our supporters have become strange this season. What's with this feeling that anyone who rathers or even defends Rooney is a RVP hater? How the hell can we know that RVP would have scored those chances? Anyone with that ability can feel free to let me know the lotto numbers for this week. That's the point I think Pogue is making. He ain't saying he wouldn't have scored he is simply pointing out that RVP has missed chances of that magnitude in the past.
RVP is not fit, that's why he didn't play. Rooney also isn't fit yet Moyes decided to put him out there and yet again we are left to wonder what might have been because of our manager yet again proving he is out of his depth. If Rooney was 100% fit then he alone is to blame but he wasn't so Moyes has to shoulder some of the blame too.
Our supporters have become strange this season. What's with this feeling that anyone who rathers or even defends Rooney is a RVP hater? How the hell can we know that RVP would have scored those chances? Anyone with that ability can feel free to let me know the lotto numbers for this week. That's the point I think Pogue is making. He ain't saying he wouldn't have scored he is simply pointing out that RVP has missed chances of that magnitude in the past.
RVP is not fit, that's why he didn't play. Rooney also isn't fit yet Moyes decided to put him out there and yet again we are left to wonder what might have been because of our manager yet again proving he is out of his depth. If Rooney was 100% fit then he alone is to blame but he wasn't so Moyes has to shoulder some of the blame too.
On a bus with shitty internet, sorry for the double post!
He scored a great goal but he certainly wasn't great overall. In fact his lack of tactical discipline was a major reason Barca controlled the game with such ease.
Rooney should be held accountable and nobody is saying he played a blinder, but why the hell was he on the pitch if he wasn't fit? Once he's on the pitch he is responsible for everything he does, but my point was simply that I blame Moyes more than Rooney. Most players if asked by the manager are you fit and can you play in a critical second leg against Bayern away are going to say yes. That's why the decision isn't made by the players and by the manager. Within 5 minutes it was pretty obvious Rooney was clearly still injured, which I imagine would have been apparent in training leading up to the match. Moyes decided that Rooney would somehow overcome this and perform and that is asinine.
And again after having watched the first half in which Rooney did nothing but lose possession, lack any proper first touch and fluff a major shooting chance, Moyes decided to put him back out there to start the first half in which he did more of the same and then continued to play him and let him finish the match even though it was obvious he was a huge detriment to our chances at advancing.
Anyways if it came off as me saying Rooney shouldn't be held accountable that was not my point. All I'm saying is that the ultimate blame lies with the manger for even putting an obviously injured player in that position.
Bold point 1 - Who was?
Bold point 2 - Which is why we should have played a 3 man midfield. It was madness going with 2 strikers against Barcelona.
1: No one really, I think we were set up very poorly tactically and it was a contributing factor into how dominant Barca were.
2: While I agree that we should have started a 3rd CM and played Rooney up top on his own he was given the job of marking Busquets in his deeper role behind Hernandez and he abandoned it after the first 15 mins, Busquets had freedom of the pitch and started plenty of Barca attacks when they built from the back.
Ferguson would do it. He took him off in Moscow with the score at 1-1. He did it a lot last season too, he dropped him for the Madrid match. Going back to RVN/Saha in 2006 and Beckham/Solskjaer in 2003, SAF was never afraid to leave a big name out of the team if there was long run benefit for the team.
Hardly ever though. Last season he had a lot of injuries mixed with bad from and rvp there, so he could afford to do it. The season before though, he was never subbed off. Everyone would in fact be shocked the odd times he was subbed off. I doubt he would have been risked if van Persie had been fit and on the pitch. He wasn't though, and Rooney was our only world class outfield player, so of course he would leave him on the pitch when we needed a goal, regardless of how he is coming back from injuries.
I still doubt that if RVP was available that Moyes would have the bollocks to take Rooney off. And Rooney was injured on Wednesday too which would have given more opportunity to take him off.
And if SAF kept Rooney on, it was mostly on the flanks rather than in CM. I don't like Rooney in CM when we're chasing the game. He tries to do too much himself to the detriment of team.
Yeah really I doubt Moyes would ever leave a big name on the bench. He'd force them all in to the detriment of the team because he doesn't have the bollocks to actually do something about it and drop one of them. Saying that though, Fergie did the same with Rooney in 2010, played him when he was blatantly injured in a quarter final return leg against Bayern. Think he did sub him off in that case though as he broke a metatarsal though, and we did pick up a red card, so its a bit different. You can be sure he would've tried to carry on with him though if we didn't get the red.
Yeah. That's why I'm concerned slightly that Rooney, RVP and Mata will prove millstones around his neck when it's clear we need a bit of pace/penetration upfront and to a lesser extent, Fellaini too with his price tag.
Good point about Rooney against Bayern. Although in 09/10 Rooney was probably more talismanic than he is now, plus Berbatov and Owen were definite downgrades on Rooney whilst IMO the Bayern CBs were more scared of Welbeck than Rooney over the past two legs.
Pretty much why I want one of the strikers sold this summer if Moyes is to stay. He can't get them all to work together but you can be sure he'll still try to force them together and Mata on the right, and then Kagawa would be dropped once it inevitably doesn't work. Only way is to take away that option to play them together. He'd probably go out and buy another striker though. Agree with Fellaini too. Blatantly just not a very good player but you know Moyes won't cut his losses with him just because of how much he payed and won't want to make it seem like he admitted he made a huge mistake. Bring in any one else and Fellaini would definitely not be part of any future plans.
I just looked back at stats from last season and saw that Rooney had 12/10 in 27 games vs 15/10 in the same number of games this season. Most consider him to be our best outfield performer so far this season, while last season he was generally crap. He's had a number of poor games this year, excluding his impressively bad display in Munich. Is it indicative of how awful we've been that he's been our best performer or has he been legitimately good?
He started the season in excellent form but as usual he is incapable of keeping it up for a whole season
He wasn't generally crap at all last season, when he played he was largely pretty good (and was recognised as such) and was a vital part of our title win, but he also missed a large amount of games. This year he's been a bit better and played a bit more, but as a team we've been much worse so his quality stands out.
At least he's had fewer injuries this year, but still, he's looking likely to again start less than 30 PL games. That'd be the sixth time in ten years he's fallen short of that number. Why can't he just stay fit...
Welbeck was better than him in both games against Bayern.
His stats in terms of goals/assists per 90 were actually among the best of his career last season: http://www.statsbomb.com/2014/01/statsbomb-mythbusting-five-years-of-wayne-rooney/
He very much did play second fiddle to RvP, but still popped up with some important goals. It's often overlooked that in the period between December '12 and March '13, he scored 13 goals in 16 games, not all of them starts.
Those goals included a winner against West Ham, the only two goals against Southampton, two at the Etihad, a winner against Fulham, and a winner against Reading. A very decent contribution, in other words.
His season started badly and ended badly (mainly because he wasn't playing), but he was never as bad as what's been made out.
But for a lot of fans, RvP was the shiny new toy in 2012/13, and so the perfectly good toy they already owned was obviously going to be cast aside and neglected for a bit.
So? Plus he was playing injured in the second game, not to mention Welbecks miss.
Yeah, pretty much this. It wasn't a great season as it was peppered with injuries and a lot of speculation/hostility going on, but he did contribute a lot in the season, with very vital goals and assists in scrappy matches.
Welbeck was better than RVP in both games against Madrid last season. What's your point?
For people who mentioned Bayern's game. Obviously he's unfit against Bayern. But it's a very important game and we need a goal. We lose RVP. So we need Rooney and we need to take a risk. That's what Moyes did. I understand that.
But I would sub off Rooney instead of Fletcher for Hernandez since Rooney played poor.
And for overall his performance this season. I think Rooney should done better. I would be really pleased with Rooney's current performance if he's being paid as much as Hernandez or Welbeck. But we paid him almost 4 times of Hernandez or Welbeck wage. "250k per week". So I'm expecting a better performance from him and obviously try to be more consistent.
But I would sub off Rooney instead of Fletcher for Hernandez since Rooney played poor.
And for overall his performance this season. I think Rooney should done better. I would be really pleased with Rooney's current performance if he's being paid as much as Hernandez or Welbeck. But we paid him almost 4 times of Hernandez or Welbeck wage. "250k per week". So I'm expecting a better performance from him and obviously try to be more consistent.
Agree with all but the last few lines. Therefore there was nothing wrong with Rooney's game last season, we/he was wrong to change it this year and go stand in RVP's space in the box when we need Rooney in the buildup
Great post.
I hope you've not referring to when Welbeck blocked a Van Persie shot against Olympiakos, but then everyone willfully interpreted Van Persie's comments after the game to be about Rooney, despite Rooney playing deep all game?
He wasnt talking about a single game
Yeah, he was obviously talking about Welbeck
That one block is the biggest reason for his poor form.Shocking game from him so far. Doesn't make the runs. Doesn't play the right pass (why ignore Nani??). Not on the same wavelength as Mata and Kagawa...and what do we do? Pay him £300k and make him captain. Moyes is a joke.
And always with that diagonal that Baines can read like a book. So frustrating.
Everyone but Moyes could see starting him was an awful decision.
He is killing any chance we have by continually dropping deep.
He needs a fecking rocket up his arse.
He needs a fecking rocket up his arse.
He needs to be subbed because he's not contributing to our tactical set up
I want him gone more than I want Moyes gone.
That Mirallas goal came from a...yes, you've guessed it, a diagonal slide rule pass from Rooney that didn't make it (the 4th today).
Can we rename this to Wayne Rooney 2013 performances? Can't remember one this year.
Absolutely dire so far. Expect Fletch to go off and him to move to CM in the 60th minute though. Far too "VITAL" to be taken off.
Same.
I cant fecking stand him, like physically makes me ill, knowing that we're pretty much building our team around this sack of shit.
He's not good enough anymore, he's so slow on the turn its embarrassing, ugly first touch, constantly picking the wrong passes.
Sick of his shit, slow, dinosaur off the ball movement. He plays as a number 9 he drops too deep and drops into a number 10 role. He plays as a number 10, he completely fails to influence the game because he's too fecking stupid to understand the mechanics of the role.
What's the point? Give me Welbeck or Hernandez any day, they'll make runs, they'll stretch defences and you know what even if they don't, they're not on 300k a week and they don't believe they're gods gift to football.
People don't really understand how badly he makes us play at times. They think because his stats(largely attributed to free kicks and corners) are good that automatically means he's doing some sort of super job.
What? The goal came from Mata passing it straight to an Everton player.
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