He's the best player in the league.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter gooDevil
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added in Joe Spence for completion.
All time Man Utd goalscorers:
Bobby Charlton 249
Denis Law 237
Jack Rowley 211
Wayne Rooney 194 (-55)
George Best & Dennis Viollet 179
Joe Spence 168
All time Man Utd league goalscorers
Bobby Charlton 199
Jack Rowley 182
Denis Law 171
Dennis Viollet 159
Joe Spence 158
Wayne Rooney 139 (-60)
George Best 137
I never thought that I'd see Charlton's record being beaten but if Rooney keeps this up, he will and at a much faster rate too.
All time Man Utd goalscorers:
Bobby Charlton 249
Denis Law 237
Jack Rowley 211
Wayne Rooney 194 (-55)
George Best & Dennis Viollet 179
Joe Spence 168
All time Man Utd league goalscorers
Bobby Charlton 199
Jack Rowley 182
Denis Law 171
Dennis Viollet 159
Joe Spence 158
Wayne Rooney 139 (-60)
George Best 137
I never thought that I'd see Charlton's record being beaten but if Rooney keeps this up, he will and at a much faster rate too.
Just as a follow up, when you look at the appearances and goal-scoring rates, Dennis Viollet's record is phenomenal. At the same rate of scoring, if he had 758 appearances, he'd have scored 463 goals!...redundant I know, but still.
Rooney show at the moment!
Brilliant to have
Brilliant to have
Same one but shows the games they would have needed to reach Charlton's records.
I remember when we had Ronaldo he and Rooney rarely scored in the same game and now it seems to be the same when it comes to Van Persie and Rooney. Weird.
You know I'd almost bought into the idea that Rooney was below-par before his injury because of comments like this:
Then I had a quick glance over his last 10 games. In his last 9 starts (stretching all the way back to 1/12/12 i.e. before the Swansea game), he has scored 10 goals and gotten 1 assist. 2 goals and an assist v Reading in a one-goal win, 2 goals against City in a one goal win, 1 goal against West Ham in a 1-0 win, 2 goals against Southampton in a 2-1 win and 1 goal against Fulham in a 1-0 win. In the 3 league games before the Swansea match he managed 5 goals and an assist. Yet some people are saying he's had an average season...
His best performance of the season so far. Hopefully the England came doesnt have anything nasty in store.
Yeah because stats are the be all and end all aren't they
In any case he's played well the last couple games.
Yeah because stats are the be all and end all aren't they
In any case he's played well the last couple games.
When the stats tell you that he alone has won us 15 points in the last 10 games on goals alone then yes, they're fairly important. And then you look into those stats and see that these goals are mixed in with some of the best individual performances we've seen this season from any player - i.e. City and Fulham - it makes it downright absurd what some gimps have said about him, IMO. It has nothing to do with people having different opinions and everything to do with people jumping at the chance to criticise a player that's going to down as probably the most important player in the most successful period in the club's history.
Rooney seems never comfortable having the spot light on him. He likes to play his way ie dropping deep, win the ball and do his magic. We should allow him to play his game.
Thought he looked a little quicker today than he did earlier in the season
If only it was so simple. Some of these goals have also been mixed with some pretty dreadful performances; plenty of useless touches and breaking down our own attacks, but don't let that get in the way of your argument.
That doesn't get in the way of the argument, they're just mild annoyances that people get hung up over. Rooney's made the difference over and over again this season, that's what matters. Throughout all of these "dreadful" performances (Swansea and...?) he's still contributing to us winning games and eventually winning the title. We can be below-par all season and still win the title simply because we have players like Rooney and van Persie who are consistent matchwinners. Compare that to Aguero who gives the ball away much less often, goes on much more impressive solo runs and generally looks a more accomplished footballer...but he contributes to them winning much less often. I know which one I value more.
I agree. I think bar the last couple of games where Rooney has looked at his best, he was having a very average season.
Name some of these 'dreadful' performances?
Only seems that way because RVP was on fire and getting all the attention.
Have we answered the 'should he walk back into the team' question then?
And yet he had more assists than anyone in the league. Quite a player our Wayne, even in average form he stands above most others in the league.
Wayne's touch and passing are always a bit ropey for a couple of games after he gets back from injury/suspension/close season. That's happened three times this season, counting the start.
After a run of games he looks amazing again. I don't know why fans are always surprised when this happens and decide he's got shit touch.
After a run of games he looks amazing again. I don't know why fans are always surprised when this happens and decide he's got shit touch.
I don't think I ever clicked on that thread.
Assist stats are misleading. Quite a few were corners. Rooney always does this... has a great period of 5,6 games where he's world class and then drops down a level or two again... then everyone's like, 'wtf was that' because his bottom level is so poor. Same cycle almost every season. The good thing is he has shown signs of being able to lift himself from his bottom level - such as against Fulham where he was dire for 30-40 minutes and then played really well for the rest of the match. I'm not even sure his form is down to coming back from an injury/match fitness. Partly yes, but it's mostly random. I don't even think he himself knows why.
He doesn't though, Mata, Podolski and Gerrard have more. And it's easier to rack up the assists with a RVP to feed instead of a Torres
But he's indeed been very productive, if not so impressive in his performances. He's also spread his statistical output very well over the games he's played; in his first 10 league games he only scored twice, but provided 6 assists; in his last 7 league games he's scored 8 and assisted only 1.
By absolute production he's at around the same level as the likes of Falcao and Cavani (they've had more pens, although they don't miss them to be fair); but his influence in the result is statistically and relatively far less then theirs, which is somewhat normal considering their positions and roles on the pitch, but not so normal considering the free-scoring nature of this season's Utd frontline... him+RVP don't even account for half the team's goals (not counting their assists because I don't have the details and this could lead to counting a goal "double", ie. when they assist each other)...
(league only)
Messi: 21 apps, 33 goals (3 pen.), 8 assists [scored/assisted in 18 of 21 games = 85.7%; involved in 41 of 71 team goals = 57.8%] -- 1.57 gpg
C. Ronaldo: 21 apps, 21 goals (5 pen.), 4 assists [scored/assisted in 12 of 21 games = 57.1%; involved in 25 of 54 team goals = 46.3%] -- 1.00 gpg
Falcao: 18 apps, 18 goals (7 pen.), 1 assist [scored/assisted in 12 of 18 games = 66.7%; involved in 19 of 42 team goals = 45.2%] -- 1.00 gpg
Cavani: 20 apps, 18 goals (4 pen.), 2 assists [scored/assisted in 14 of 20 games = 70.0%; involved in 20 of 45 team goals = 44.4%] -- 0.90 gpg
Van Persie: 25 apps, 18 goals (1 pen.), 6 assists [scored/assisted in 19 of 25 games = 76.0%; involved in 24 of 60 team goals = 40.0%] -- 0.72 gpg
Rooney: 17 apps, 10 goals (1 pen.), 7 assists [scored/assisted in 10 of 17 games = 58.9%; involved in 17 of 60 team goals = 28.3%] -- 0.59 gpg
It has probably been mentioned, but it was also another one Fergie got right. He moved him out to the left and scored from there.
He doesn't though, Mata, Podolski and Gerrard have more. And it's easier to rack up the assists with a RVP to feed instead of a Torres
But he's indeed been very productive, if not so impressive in his performances. He's also spread his statistical output very well over the games he's played; in his first 10 league games he only scored twice, but provided 6 assists; in his last 7 league games he's scored 8 and assisted only 1.
By absolute production he's at around the same level as the likes of Falcao and Cavani (they've had more pens, although they don't miss them to be fair); but his influence in the result is statistically and relatively far less then theirs, which is somewhat normal considering their positions and roles on the pitch, but not so normal considering the free-scoring nature of this season's Utd frontline... him+RVP don't even account for half the team's goals (not counting their assists because I don't have the details and this could lead to counting a goal "double", ie. when they assist each other)...
(league only)
Messi: 21 apps, 33 goals (3 pen.), 8 assists [scored/assisted in 18 of 21 games = 85.7%; involved in 41 of 71 team goals = 57.8%] -- 1.57 gpg
C. Ronaldo: 21 apps, 21 goals (5 pen.), 4 assists [scored/assisted in 12 of 21 games = 57.1%; involved in 25 of 54 team goals = 46.3%] -- 1.00 gpg
Falcao: 18 apps, 18 goals (7 pen.), 1 assist [scored/assisted in 12 of 18 games = 66.7%; involved in 19 of 42 team goals = 45.2%] -- 1.00 gpg
Cavani: 20 apps, 18 goals (4 pen.), 2 assists [scored/assisted in 14 of 20 games = 70.0%; involved in 20 of 45 team goals = 44.4%] -- 0.90 gpg
Van Persie: 25 apps, 18 goals (1 pen.), 6 assists [scored/assisted in 19 of 25 games = 76.0%; involved in 24 of 60 team goals = 40.0%] -- 0.72 gpg
Rooney: 17 apps, 10 goals (1 pen.), 7 assists [scored/assisted in 10 of 17 games = 58.9%; involved in 17 of 60 team goals = 28.3%] -- 0.59 gpg
To be fair Madrid scored around 30 more goals last season than us there league its not unusual to have quite a few high scoring routes. Look how many hattricks Ronaldo has scored since leaving us or his scoring rate with us since he left compared to his time here (last 3 seasons with us)
Yeah, but then that's why I included the "games scored/assisted in" stat, which negates these high-scoring routs and also the easily manipulated GPG ratio. You can see from this season's stats that Rooney and Ronaldo are clearly behind the others mentioned, in Rooney's case that's not so terrible because he's scored a lot of winning goals and he "only" has 10 league goals, in Ronaldo's case it could indicate that he's been racking up a lot of goals in less games, which curbs his influence over the season despite scoring so many goals.
Messi and RVP are at insanely high levels, over the past few seasons I haven't seen anyone over 70% at any point.
Messi: scored or assisted in 18 of 21 games, which means that he will realistically score/assist 1 goal every 1.17 games
RVP: scores/assists 1 goal every 1.32 games
Cavani: scores/assists 1 goal every 1.43 games
Falcao: scores/assists 1 goal every 1.50 games
Rooney: scores/assists 1 goal every 1.70 games
C. Ronaldo: scores/assists 1 goal every 1.75 games
This is an excellent way to determine who influences games most frequently, far better than the generic GPG stat (of course it won't tell you the importance or difficulty of the goals, but in combination with the "% of team goals" stat you could determine which player has been most influential for their team)
My main point is that Rooney has been good this season but he isn't in any way, shape or form carrying Utd, if anything it's more the other way around.
I keep reading "he's had many dreadful games". So can people who say that please let us know which were these "dreadful" games apart from Swansea?
He was just as bad against Everton on the opening day. That's without stretching the mind too much. He was superb yesterday I thought. From very early on you could see he was going to have a good game. His touch was superb throughout. Lets hope he can stay fit so he can keep this going.
Tends to play well consecutively for 2 or 3 matches then either gets injured or goes through a bad run of form. I hope he stays injury free from now till the end though. I just feel like him and RVP haven't even begun to strike up a partnership yet because they haven't played together enough.
try stretching it a bit
Your numbers are wrong. For Messi it would be (41/18=) 2.3 goals every 1.17 games, for Rooney 1.7 goals every 1.7 games, etc.
I don't quite see the point of all this. Take Rooney's numbers. They would be better if he, for instance, didn't get a brace in the 2-1 win over S'oton but instead got that second goal against West Ham at OT, even though that leaves the team 2 points short.
The team is carrying Rooney?!? Absolute balls to suggest that he is a passenger, wind your neck in.
Performance-wise I'd say it's been above average. He's had some top class moments mixed with in some mediocre performances and inconsistency in his overall play.
That's why I think he's an interesting player. His stats are quite good even when his performances in general may not be so good. You take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.
If he gets into a run of good form after this Fulham match, then I'm sure my position will change. Consistency in his performances is the only thing he's missing for me.
That's not what I said though; I meant if only given 2 options to choose from ("Rooney is carrying the team" or "the team is carrying Rooney"), then I think that the latter one more accurately describes his overall performances. The truth is that it's somewhere in between; Rooney hasn't been the reason that Utd are performing the way they are, but he's of course influenced the outcomes of several games, just not consistently all season.
What? He's been consistently scoring goals in big games or important games when he's played and goals that have been directly affecting the game and result.
Um... no they're not.
I don't have a clue what you're talking about in the 2nd paragraph...
The point is to influence as many possible games, this helps calculate that far more realistically than GPG average...
57% of his league games to be exact, which is great, but nothing compared to RVP or key players on other sides. I've not talked about the importance of his goals yet, so yes I concede that in this department he's been brilliant.. I'm merely arguing that this Utd side has made it possible, and that if he really had been on a consistently good level as he's at times been in previous seasons that he should have had more goals/assists by now.
I've at no point said that he's been terrible, just that he hasn't even been as good as he should be IMO.
This.
On another note, does anyone feel like his finishing (and his confidence to shoot) has recovered a bit recently? Mostly since he's been with us he's steadily become more influential but less of a natural, confident striker of the ball, especially from range (possibly excluding the 09/10 season). Goals like the one against Fulham, for example, were his bread and butter when he first came here. But it doesn't feel like the sort of strike he's opted for much recently.
Possibly this is all in my head. It's good to see, anyway.
I must have been watching a different game to everyone else, because I really didn't think anyone had a game to write home about bar Rio, Evans and De Gea.
Rooney scored a good goal though, but the overall performance was just par for the course to my mind.
Rooney scored a good goal though, but the overall performance was just par for the course to my mind.
He scored quite a lot of long range goals last season with the Bilbao and Fulham ones immediately coming to mind. I thought his finishing last year was very good and this year he's hardly played high up the pitch but when he has, he's gotten goals. 3 of his last 4 goals have been brilliant finishes though, especially the one against Fulham last weekend.
Yes, they are. Rooney doesn't score or assist 1 goal every 1.7 games, he scores or assists 1.7 goals every 1.7 games. It's not a difficult mathematical concept to grasp, mate. He has scored or assisted in 10 out of 17 league games this season and has 17 goals/assist to his name. Get it?
The point of the second paragraph is equally simple to fathom. By your system, Rooney's numbers would be better if he scored against West Ham at home but only once against Southampton the other week. Agreed? He'd still be on 10 goals/7 assists, but he would by your terminology have "influenced" 11 games as opposed to ten. Yet United would have 2 points less as it would've caused us to draw against Southampton and win bigger against West Ham. So the whole system is bullshit to begin with.
Did I dumb it down enough for you?
IMO Rooney has been bloody superb this season and it has been one that has been disrupted by injury.
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