Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

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Stretch said:
I agree with your post and the point your making however this myth that Rooney's not in the top 5-10 players in the league is driving me nuts. If you use some basic statistics like looking at Goals & Assists combined considering him being a 9 and 10 over the years then he's consistently been in the top 10 of the league for nigh on 6 years running now. Even last season when he had an absolute mare he was still in the top 10 for league goals + assists combined. That shows me he's consistently up there. The issue though is that he's not managed to be in the top 3/5 players season after season.
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My point was that if you are a good player and are given the central role in the team you will always produce good numbers. For someone like Rooney who takes most free kicks, corners, historically penalties and plays in the most statistically efficient role, of course he is going to get 40 goals+assists a season.

However we all know he had a poor season last year. This is as close to a fact as any opinion could be, despite him still being efficient. This doesn't mean he was one of the top 5-10 player's in the League. The likes of Mata, Hazard, RVP, Carrick, Bale, Benteke, Cazorla, Rafael, Zabaleta, De Gea, Suarez, Baines and probably a few others all had much better seasons. This year there has also been a similar number who are outshining him.

He should be consistently in the top 5 best player's if he wants to be paid as one of the best in the World (let alone the League).
 
From a footballing perspective he isn't worth anywhere near that amount, like others have said he isn't even in the top five players in the league, let alone the world. However, we simply can't afford to lose him right now, finishing seventh and selling Rooney sends an awful message to prospective players out there who we may want to join, like or not Rooney is a big deal worldwide, and for that reason we have to keep him. He's a vey lucky man though, the idea of us paying a 33 year old Rooney 300k a week is just mental, but that's the situation we find ourselves in.
 
Mickeza said:
From a footballing perspective he isn't worth anywhere near that amount, like others have said he isn't even in the top five players in the league, let alone the world. However, we simply can't afford to lose him right now, finishing seventh and selling Rooney sends an awful message to prospective players out there who we may want to join, like or not Rooney is a big deal worldwide, and for that reason we have to keep him. He's a vey lucky man though, the idea of us paying a 33 year old Rooney 300k a week is just mental, but that's the situation we find ourselves in.
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I'd certainly dispute that.

Its an incredibly difficult argument to make as each player is better for a club for different reasons, but he'd have a shout at being in top 5 in league surely
 
Mickeza said:
I think he's the fifth best player in Manchester.
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The only player i can think is better than rooney in manchester is Aguero.

Silva/Yaya/Mata/RVP are all on a par, not better or worse...at a stretch i'd say he is better than all those...at his best, and when we try think of these things we have to assume all the players 'at their best' and at his best rooney os better than everyone in manchester...except Ageuro
 
RvP and Yaya at their best are easily better than Rooney at his best.
 
Give it a week and he won't even be in the top 20 players in the league.
 
finneh said:
My point was that if you are a good player and are given the central role in the team you will always produce good numbers. For someone like Rooney who takes most free kicks, corners, historically penalties and plays in the most statistically efficient role, of course he is going to get 40 goals+assists a season.

However we all know he had a poor season last year. This is as close to a fact as any opinion could be, despite him still being efficient. This doesn't mean he was one of the top 5-10 player's in the League. The likes of Mata, Hazard, RVP, Carrick, Bale, Benteke, Cazorla, Rafael, Zabaleta, De Gea, Suarez, Baines and probably a few others all had much better seasons. This year there has also been a similar number who are outshining him.

He should be consistently in the top 5 best player's if he wants to be paid as one of the best in the World (let alone the League).
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True but then again, in his defense he started this season really well and WAS one of the best 5 in the league until he started getting injured this season. He was on a run of about 10 games or so in excellent form. He was basically running our team at the time. And that's recent, I'm talking Sept through November last year.
 
Amar__ said:
RvP and Yaya at their best are easily better than Rooney at his best.
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What?? Thats just....no, sorry, i cant even begin to.... Just no.

Pogue Mahone said:
Rooney "at his best" is arguably better than the lot of them.

The real debate is how often any of them are at their best.
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Absolutely, this may be the crux of it, but the point was 'at their best'.
 
Stretch said:
True but then again, in his defense he started this season really well and WAS one of the best 5 in the league until he started getting injured this season. He was on a run of about 10 games or so in excellent form. He was basically running our team at the time. And that's recent, I'm talking Sept through November last year.
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Even if he was as excellent as people say at the start of the season, 10 games a season isn't good enough.
 
Zen86 said:
Even if he was as excellent as people say at the start of the season, 10 games a season isn't good enough.
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The ten games stopped after getting injured.

The point about being 'topo 5' or whatever is actually more to do with getting the best out of rooney. If our team/manager/staff can get rooney to perform at his best then thats half the job of getting back into top 4 done. Look at Yaya Toure last year, he was distinctly average in comparison to this year,he wasnt happy, just like rooney has not been the last couple of years.
 
Zen86 said:
Even if he was as excellent as people say at the start of the season, 10 games a season isn't good enough.
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Again, as you seemed to conveniently leave out, he got injured.

Either way, I don't think he's worth 300k a week, however he is a very important player for us which we can ill afford to lose right now considering our dire situation.
 









I don't think Rooney at his best is good as this, no way.

As for Yaya, he won so many games from CM it's ridiculous, I don't think he is consistent enough, but at his best he is easily one of the best players in the world(at his best!).
 
Dracula said:
The only player i can think is better than rooney in manchester is Aguero.

Silva/Yaya/Mata/RVP are all on a par, not better or worse...at a stretch i'd say he is better than all those...at his best, and when we try think of these things we have to assume all the players 'at their best' and at his best rooney os better than everyone in manchester...except Ageuro
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Well my personal opinion is Wayne Rooney hasn't been at his best for quite some time now, using the "at their best" formula Torres, Giggs and Gerrard come into the equation. Judging players now, in my eyes RVP and Silva are definitely better than him, so maybe I was harsh, he's the fourth best attacking player in Manchester. And before anyone says it, no, Rooney the first six months of this season wasn't him at his best, with the possible exception of the Leverkusen home game, he was tremendous that night, I never thought we'd see a performance with that physicality from him again. The rest of the time he was good, maybe even very good in relation to the rest of our squad, but back to his best? Not for me. I guess the Leverkusen game shows he could get back to his best, hopefully that's the case, I don't dislike the man, I just don't think from a purely footballing perspective he's worth anywhere near the third highest wage in world football.
 
Rooney is just as good if not slightly better than RVP at his best.

But I suppose a couple of youtube videos is enough to refute that...And Toure plays a different position so it's hard to compare
 
So what is enough to prove that he is better than him then? There was thread earlier where around 80% of people said van Persie is better striker, even now when he is in shit form and Rooney is playing one of his best seasons, is that good enough?
 
Amar__ said:
So what is enough to prove that he is better than him then? There was thread earlier where around 80% of people said van Persie is better striker, even now when he is in shit form and Rooney is playing one of his best seasons, is that good enough?
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We're talking about them as players not strikers.

Secondly, on league goals alone, Rooney's best scoring rate is better Van Persie best. So statistically RVP isn't even the better scorer.

To say Van Persie is easily better is monumentally stupid to say the least.
 
Amar__ said:
RvP and Yaya at their best are easily better than Rooney at his best.
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The only 2 players I have seen in recent years that were better at their best than Rooney are Messi and Ronaldo. In 2009/2010 he was an unstoppable beast, simple as that. Unfortunatley we haven't seen that form anymore since then, so he isn't really consistent.
 
NoArroJusBeta said:
The only 2 players I have seen in recent years that were better at their best than Rooney are Messi and Ronaldo. In 2009/2010 he was an unstoppable beast, simple as that. Unfortunatley we haven't seen that form anymore since then, so he isn't really consistent.
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I'd add the likes of Iniesta, Xavi and Ibra to that as well.
 
NoArroJusBeta said:
The only 2 players I have seen in recent years that were better at their best than Rooney are Messi and Ronaldo. In 2009/2010 he was an unstoppable beast, simple as that. Unfortunatley we haven't seen that form anymore since then, so he isn't really consistent.
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Suarez, Iniesta, Xavi, Iniesta, Ibra, Ribery, Lahm and RvP have all been as good too.
 
BarneyLFC said:
Suarez, Iniesta, Xavi, Iniesta, Ibra, Ribery, Lahm and RvP have all been as good too.
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No they haven't.

Ienesta, Ribery and definitely Xavi are players that you can't compare as they play totally different positions

Including Lahm is even too ridiculous to comment on
 
Dracula said:
I'd certainly dispute that.

Its an incredibly difficult argument to make as each player is better for a club for different reasons, but he'd have a shout at being in top 5 in league surely
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These four better players being whom in your opinion?


Zen86 said:
Even if he was as excellent as people say at the start of the season, 10 games a season isn't good enough.
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Even during the Rooney's hot streak there were three consecutive matches in the league in which his form dipped markedly, West Brom in September through to Sunderland halfway through October.


Stretch said:
Again, as you seemed to conveniently leave out, he got injured.
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That is a fairly common occurrence with Wayne is it not? The prevalence of which can reasonably be expected to increase as he ages.


akash02 said:
And Toure plays a different position so it's hard to compare
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Is it so very difficult? You judge a player by the standards expected for one in his position, his past performances and the quality of his peers.

This is why i struggle with the scorn poured upon the notion that De Gea has performed equal to if not better than Rooney.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
These four better players being whom in your opinion?




Even during the Rooney's hot streak there were three consecutive matches in the league in which his form dipped markedly, West Brom in September through to Sunderland halfway through October.




That is a fairly common occurrence with Wayne is it not? The prevalence of which can reasonably be expected to increase as he ages.




Is it so very difficult? You judge a player by the standards expected for one in his position, his past performances and the quality of his peers.

This is why i struggle with the scorn poured upon the notion that De Gea has performed equal to if not better than Rooney.
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Dont think ive read a post that confuses me so much. I'm not sure what your point is overall

But, in reply to the first one (which was asking me the question)...a quick think would be (and this is with rooney at his best...the amount he does that is not my point):

Aguero
Hazard (maybe)
Silva (just)
Suarez

There will be many others who have already been mentioned who i dont think deserve to be said to be 'better' than rooney, but may be his equal

but was your point that i shouldnt be able to think of 4 or what?
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Is it so very difficult? You judge a player by the standards expected for one in his position, his past performances and the quality of his peers.

This is why i struggle with the scorn poured upon the notion that De Gea has performed equal to if not better than Rooney.
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IMO, yes it is. It get's even tougher when both players are playing very well. It's very easy to say De Gea has been better than Valencia for instance because the latter has been shite while the former has been largely very good. But when both Rooney and De Gea have had very good seasons how do you say who's had the better season? My argument is that Rooney has been more influential and hence has had the better season.
 
NoArroJusBeta said:
No they haven't.

Ienesta, Ribery and definitely Xavi are players that you can't compare as they play totally different positions

Including Lahm is even too ridiculous to comment on
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NoArroJusBeta said:
The only 2 players I have seen in recent years that were better at their best than Rooney are Messi and Ronaldo. In 2009/2010 he was an unstoppable beast, simple as that. Unfortunatley we haven't seen that form anymore since then, so he isn't really consistent.
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?
 
Dracula said:
Dont think ive read a post that confuses me so much. I'm not sure what your point is overall

But, in reply to the first one (which was asking me the question)...a quick think would be (and this is with rooney at his best...the amount he does that is not my point):

Aguero
Hazard (maybe)
Silva (just)
Suarez

There will be many others who have already been mentioned who i dont think deserve to be said to be 'better' than rooney, but may be his equal

but was your point that i shouldnt be able to think of 4 or what?
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Well the other three responses pertained to three other posters but we'll leave that there.

No I was curious to see who you'd place above Rooney. Thinking of those players who also started the season at a gallop, was Ramsey's influence or peak performance inferior? Would he be one you see as on a similar level during 13/14?


akash02 said:
IMO, yes it is. It get's even tougher when both players are playing very well. It's very easy to say De Gea has been better than Valencia for instance because the latter has been shite while the former has been largely very good. But when both Rooney and De Gea have had very good seasons how do you say who's had the better season? My argument is that Rooney has been more influential and hence has had the better season.
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Your initial reaction was to describe the very idea as being bizarre. If the two are on a similar level then i think consistency over a longer period along with few match defining errors, should give DDG the edge.

Well have to agree to disagree of course. lol
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Well the other three responses pertained to three other posters but we'll leave that there.

No I was curious to see who you'd place above Rooney. Thinking of those players who also started the season at a gallop, was Ramsey's influence or peak performance inferior? Would he be one you see as on a similar level during 13/14?
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No. I think, at THIS moment, rooney 100% is better than Ramsey 100%. But that's not to say Ramsey wont improve...because im certain he will. There will be a point at which Ramsey will take over rooney in these 'rankings' and that time may be close, but not yet.

As ive said, the problem isnt rooney at his best, is getting rooney to play his best. Which doesnt happen enough, however, i'm confident that now SAF has retired, we will see that best much more than we did before.

If you see my previous posts you'll see i was dead for getting rid of rooney in the summer. His performances this year have changed my mind. He still has a few years left in him (until 32? no, certainly not).
 
adexkola said:
Your opinion is trash, uninformed, and seeps of Rooney's semen
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And your comment consists of nothing but trashtalk and is therefore completley irrelevant in any discussion based on the exchange of sensible intellectual fair arguments.

You may not like my opnion, which is your goddamn right, but if you call it trash, uninformed and biased then you beter back that up with some arguments which leave room for discussion or else its beter to just not comment at all.
 
OK, this is definitely me out from this thread, to say that only Ronaldo and Messi were better than Rooney at his best in recent years is just too much even for football forum where you can read everything.
 
NoArroJusBeta said:
The only 2 players I have seen in recent years that were better at their best than Rooney are Messi and Ronaldo. In 2009/2010 he was an unstoppable beast, simple as that. Unfortunatley we haven't seen that form anymore since then, so he isn't really consistent.
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um
 
I don't think he's the Top 3 strikers at United either. Just lucky to be on 210 odd goals.
 
Stretch said:
True but then again, in his defense he started this season really well and WAS one of the best 5 in the league until he started getting injured this season. He was on a run of about 10 games or so in excellent form. He was basically running our team at the time. And that's recent, I'm talking Sept through November last year.
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That's the problem.

35% a top 5 player, 35% not at top form (not top 10 player), 30% injured/"coming back" (poor).

That's the reason that he has rarely been a candidate for PoTY recently. Out of form, inconsistent amd injured far too often.
 
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