Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

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cesc's_mullet said:
Honest question - does the caf feel Rooney has underachieved on an individual level at United?

World Class player, no doubt. But I'm talking about after the early hype when he signed, I'm sure people expected him to reach a level similar to what Ronaldo was able to at United. Did people have higher expectations of what he'd be able to achieve on a personal level..
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Yeah, I'd say so. His problem was that he played second fiddle to Ronaldo for a long time, and then once Ronaldo left he's had too many injuries at particularly bad times. I think in particular that injury against Bayern did huge damage to his career. If that doesn't happen he probably has a 40 goal season, wins the title, gets us to a final of the CL (maybe wins it) and then goes into a World Cup in his best ever form for both club and country (top scorer in the qualifiers after all).

Every great player needs that one truly exceptional season to cement their reputation.
 
He's a class player that would walk into pretty much any team in the world (maybe bar 2 or 3, arguably), he's won 5 league titles, 2 league cups and the champions league, he's well on the way to becoming Manchester Uniteds leading goal scorer ever, he's been a star of team during one of the most successful periods of our entire history... and he's 28.

Underachieving - the Manchester United way :)
 
If Wenger had him in our squad now he'd make him into a world-beater again. A good three years of top-drawer performances. I'm not so sure that Moyes could do the same.
 
Someone earlier in the thread was saying he's crap because he's not done so well in the ballon d'or lately, but the reason for that is obvious, and it's the same reason his reputation isn't what it might be. He's gone from fifth in the world at the end of 2011 to fifteenth the next year to not really registering on that level, all without a particularly significant downturn in his form (although 2011 was certainly his zenith). It's this:



Or rather the fact that since then we've done nothing in Europe.
 
JP77 said:
How the feck do you know Rooney doesn't want to be here?

Genuinley sick of bullshit comments like this, no offence. Nonstop people on this forum who think they're some ITK that knows every in and out of what happened throughout the Rooney saga. It's almost as bad as the people in this thread actually failing to realise how brilliant he is as a player and why it's ridiculous to just discuss goal scoring stats when it comes to a player like Rooney who has been arguably our most important player for not that far off a decade. Players like Rooney are possibly the hardest to replace.
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A solitary bite. Too obvious I guess.
 
Grinner said:
If Wenger had him in our squad now he'd make him into a world-beater again. A good three years of top-drawer performances. I'm not so sure that Moyes could do the same.
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Rooney's form has been one of the few positives of Moyes' tenure thus far.
 
Grinner said:
If Wenger had him in our squad now he'd make him into a world-beater again..
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The Man Himself said:
See, there is difference between using phrase 'doing everything we(club) can to keep him' and 'bending backwards.' You are suggesting both are same, when they are not. At the moment it is a mutually beneficial thing between club and him so there isn't much wrong.
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They are both the same obviously. You can only do as much as is possible to do. Thats entirely different from whats comfortable and what you're happy to do.

We're going to new lengths with his contract and wages as he'll obviously be the top earner, he's predictably going to be made captain on top and thats without believing all the rumours of inside info transfers, 300k and the rest of it. Thats not comfortable thats us stretching beyond it. Bending over backwards and doing everything thats possible to keep him.
 
Chabon said:
Right then. Using these two links, I have quickly assembled this list of the top ten players for goals and assists over the last two seasons. It's not my favourite site and it uses the more limited understanding of 'assist', but it was a lot quicker than using any other source.

Suarez: 36 15 (51)
Van Persie: 36 12 (48)
Rooney: 21 20 (41)
Hazard: 21 18 (39)
Lukaku: 26 9 (35)
Walcott: 19 15 (34)
Aguero: 27 7 (34)
Lambert: 23 11 (34)
Sturridge: 27 6 (33)
Benteke: 26 6 (32)

Suarez and Van Persie out in front, and then a group which Rooney leads. Rooney however, like Ageuro, has missed a fair few more matches in that time compared to Van Persie and Suarez. Actually, I'm going to put the specific numbers of starts, because they say a lot.

Luis Suarez started 54 PL games and contributed to 51 goals.
Robin Van Persie started 49 PL games and contributed to 48 goals.
Wayne Rooney started 41 games and contributed to 41 goals.
Sergio Aguero started 37 games and contributed to 34 goals.

Do you, perhaps, see a pattern there? Something that might set these players out as the best attackers in the league?

So yeah, I'm going to ask you for a list of your own. Who are all these players better than Wayne Rooney? I know for a fecking fact you're not going to name any CBs, cause the league has no world class ones, and any attacking players is just going to make you seem a little dim after the above. So...midfielders, I guess?
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First you were surprised how he wasn't best player in premiership over last few seasons, and then you said that he is between 2nd and 4th best player in last 18 months, which is ridiculous.
He wasn't even best player in his team, let alone in premiership in that 18 month time. Carrick was better player for us last season(over whole season), so was van Persie, and that is without stretching it since de Gea was excellent over whole last season and a half, but I am not even counting him.
And then you have pretty much whole Sniper's breath list:

Snipers Breath said:
Aguero, Suarez, RVP, Mata, Silva, Toure, Hazard i would have all of them above Rooney.
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You could argue over Silva maybe, but then lot of people(me included, even though I don't rate him that high) would put Bale there too, and there is Ramsey also. That's around 10(!) players who were better than him over that 18 month period, and I am sure some would have some other players ahead of him too.

How you rate him between 2nd and 4th best premiership player in last 2 seasons is really baffling, I thought even his fanboys would be at least bit objective.
 
Amar__ said:
How you rate him between 2nd and 4th best premiership player in last 2 seasons is really baffling, I thought even his fanboys would be at least bit objective.
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I gave you a fecking explanation as to why, in response to the question "Where would you rank him then, amongst the Top 5 players in the PL?" I answered as I did. All you've done is be a lazy prick in response.

I personally believe that until summer 2012 Wayne Rooney was the best player in the league, and I was explaining why I think he's gone from that to merely somewhere in that elite group behind Suarez. All you've done in return is engage with claims I never made and act like a petulant, know-it-all child. Christ, but you're precisely the reason this forum has become such a waste of time.

How about we actually have a discussion, who are the players in the Premier League you believe are better than Wayne Rooney, and, crucially, please justify your claims.
 
Elliott said:
It might be an unpopular opinion but I think they'd be great together. Real old school little 'n large. Individually they might not be as good as Rooney and RvP but if you look at their skill sets they just might form a better duo. Cole and Yorke were inferior players to Rooney and RvP yet they were a much more potent partnership. If we could get Lambert and Defoe for 25 million we could off-load a Rooney who doesn't want to be here and the Dutch sick-note and use the cash and wages freed up to sign a proper midfielder.
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Surely a wind up.... Plus your username reminds me of ET

Elliooot!!!!
 
Chabon said:
I gave you a fecking explanation as to why, in response to the question "Where would you rank him then, amongst the Top 5 players in the PL?" I answered as I did. All you've done is be a lazy prick in response.

I personally believe that until summer 2012 Wayne Rooney was the best player in the league, and I was explaining why I think he's gone from that to merely somewhere in that elite group behind Suarez. All you've done in return is engage with claims I never made and act like a petulant, know-it-all child. Christ, but you're precisely the reason this forum has become such a waste of time.

How about we actually have a discussion, who are the players in the Premier League you believe are better than Wayne Rooney, and, crucially, please justify your claims.
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Yeah, I am lazy, and your explanation was that he is better statistically than the likes of Lambert and Benteke, while ignoring the likes of Mata, Ramsey, Toure, Hazard, Carrick...

I don't feel like having to explain myself why I think these players I mentioned have been better than Rooney in the past two seasons because it's quite obvious to everyone who followed premierleague that the players I mentioned were better players in last two seasons than Rooney, were more important to their team and played better football than him. If you don't think they are, than you're the one who needs to justify your claims, and not just by putting meaningless stats which prove that Rooney is better at scoring goals than Walcott.

It's not my fault that you're going over the top and stating ridiculous things like:

Chabon said:
Hard one to call, but these days probably somewhere between 2nd and 4th on the basis that over the last 18 months he's been largely fantastic when playing, but has missed a lot of football.
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But yeah, I am the reason why this forum has become such a waste of time, but people like you who are imagineing things like Rooney's exceptional form over last two seasons(while ignoring that just last season was one of his worst since he is here) are great addition, I am surprised no one made you admin.
 
Amar__ said:
Yeah, I am lazy, and your explanation was that he is better statistically than the likes of Lambert and Benteke, while ignoring the likes of Mata, Ramsey, Toure, Hazard, Carrick...

I don't feel like having to explain myself why I think these players I mentioned have been better than Rooney in the past two seasons because it's quite obvious to everyone who followed premierleague that the players I mentioned were better players in last two seasons than Rooney, were more important to their team and played better football than him. If you don't think they are, than you're the one who needs to justify your claims, and not just by putting meaningless stats which prove that Rooney is better at scoring goals than Walcott.

It's not my fault that you're going over the top and stating ridiculous things like:



But yeah, I am the reason why this forum has become such a waste of time, but people like you who are imagineing things like Rooney's exceptional form over last two seasons(while ignoring that just last season was one of his worst since he is here) are great addition, I am surprised no one made you admin.
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:lol: seriously?
 
Chabon said:
Luis Suarez started 54 PL games and contributed to 51 goals.
Robin Van Persie started 49 PL games and contributed to 48 goals.
Wayne Rooney started 41 games and contributed to 41 goals.
Sergio Aguero started 37 games and contributed to 34 goals.
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Misleading statistics IMO.

Rooney is like Gerrard in that his stats are better than how he actually performs. Like Gerrard he does possess very good delivery from set pieces and this makes it look very good on paper, when you look at goals and assists.
But like Gerrard, Rooneys best form is behind him, the tenacity that made them the players they were have gone, Gerrard through age, Rooney because he believes he has done it all and has nothing to prove (and with another ridiculous payrise in the making, cant blame him) Like Gerrard though, whilst he's capable of making a great cross field long ball here and there, his short passing is wayward, his first touch can be very ugly and like Gerrard he moves with the ease of a disabled horse.
 
We have to keep him simple as. Like some have said it is between 50,000-100,000 wage increase which is 2-5 million more a year, quite a few players are leaving and considering the money he brings us in i'm fine with it. Fans these days are too concerned with being accountants and worrying abiut the clubs books their is a price for top talent and this is it.

Is he world class? He flickers in and out of that quality for me. Regardless he is among the top 5-10 players in this league depending on who you ask. He has his annoying traits but what you get is from huim is the quitessential English player when we talk about effort and heart. He contributes goals and assists at a very good rate and he has been here for 10 years almost now, that should count for something.

Fans haven't forgiven him for 2010 which is understandable, he never dedicated himself 100% like Ronaldo and since they came up together they will forever be compared. But he has been a great player for us, one of the best 5 I have seen. Honestly Ronaldo was worst than Rooney but because he was a better player a lot of fans have forgotten what he did. Personally I say sell Van Persie and stick Rooney up front, he can get 30-40 goals a season with Mata in behind him.

I'm glad we are keeping him seeing him line up for another team would have hurt. He has us by the balls the same way Ronaldo has Madrid Messi has Barcelona, Hazard will have Chelsea Suarez had Liverpool etc. Great players get special treatment there are not many around when you have one you do your best to keep them happy.
 
Gazza said:
Surprised you're even asking the question mate. The one thing most people agree on about Rooney is that he could have hit a higher level, and it's all over this thread. It's the question of why that people differ on - for me, his bone breaks in 2006, 2007 and 2010 were pretty influential in that.
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To be honest I haven't read through the thread properly, it's far too large for me to catch up.

I think those injuries early on were the greatest factorm
 
Doesn't he get a testimonial having been here ten years? If I recall correctly, Giggs had his quite some time ago around 2001/02.
 
Just for my understanding, how do these things work if big players are on big wage contracts taking them into ages 33 or 34, and by 31/32 they decline and are nowhere near worth it? What is the contingent action for the club? Because the player will only be too happy to take home a huge pay at that age.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Just for my understanding, how do these things work if big players are on big wage contracts taking them into ages 33 or 34, and by 31/32 they decline and are nowhere near worth it? What is the contingent action for the club? Because the player will only be too happy to take home a huge pay at that age.
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I don't think the player would be happy to taking a pay cut due to age. I think it's up to the club to make the big decision to reward a contract or not. It's massive risk for a club, however some risks do pay off. If a player does decline, it's up to the club to either look for a buyer elsewhere, or to attempt to make the player a worthwhile adition to the squad.

I suppose that's why a lot of clubs only offer 1 year extentions after a certain age, I know Arsenal have a policy of only offering year extentions after the age of 30. Again, this is risky baring in mind that these days players are able to play into their 30's with relitively no decline. Only a year contract could cause a player to be poached by another club.
 
Chabon said:
Right then. Using these two links, I have quickly assembled this list of the top ten players for goals and assists over the last two seasons. It's not my favourite site and it uses the more limited understanding of 'assist', but it was a lot quicker than using any other source.

Suarez: 36 15 (51)
Van Persie: 36 12 (48)
Rooney: 21 20 (41)
Hazard: 21 18 (39)
Lukaku: 26 9 (35)
Walcott: 19 15 (34)
Aguero: 27 7 (34)
Lambert: 23 11 (34)
Sturridge: 27 6 (33)
Benteke: 26 6 (32)

Suarez and Van Persie out in front, and then a group which Rooney leads. Rooney however, like Ageuro, has missed a fair few more matches in that time compared to Van Persie and Suarez. Actually, I'm going to put the specific numbers of starts, because they say a lot.

Luis Suarez started 54 PL games and contributed to 51 goals.
Robin Van Persie started 49 PL games and contributed to 48 goals.
Wayne Rooney started 41 games and contributed to 41 goals.
Sergio Aguero started 37 games and contributed to 34 goals.

Do you, perhaps, see a pattern there? Something that might set these players out as the best attackers in the league?

So yeah, I'm going to ask you for a list of your own. Who are all these players better than Wayne Rooney? I know for a fecking fact you're not going to name any CBs, cause the league has no world class ones, and any attacking players is just going to make you seem a little dim after the above. So...midfielders, I guess?
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You've made a mistake already with the stats of the first player in that list: Suarez has scored 46, not 36 goals in the PL since the start of last season. For the record, Suarez has contributed to 61 goals, Rooney to 41. That's quite a difference.

Last season Rooney wasn't in top 5 of the best players in the PL. RvP, Suarez, Bale, Mata, Carrick were all better than him. This season it's the same: Suarez, Aguero, Ramsey, Toure, Hazard have been better than Rooney. And then there are players like David de Gea, Oscar, Sturridge, Fernandinho, Negredo, to name a few, who haven't been worse than Rooney. This is a second season in a row in which he struggles to make the top 5 of the best performers in the PL.

I'm sure he will have his brilliant months of football in the next 2-3 years. The problem is that they will be just that - months. It seems to me that he won't be able to maintain a good form over the course of a whole season. His physical shape and lack of sufficient professionalism won't allow him to do so.
 
theyneverlearn said:
I don't think the player would be happy to taking a pay cut due to age. I think it's up to the club to make the big decision to reward a contract or not. It's massive risk for a club, however some risks do pay off. If a player does decline, it's up to the club to either look for a buyer elsewhere, or to attempt to make the player a worthwhile adition to the squad.

I suppose that's why a lot of clubs only offer 1 year extentions after a certain age, I know Arsenal have a policy of only offering year extentions after the age of 30. Again, this is risky baring in mind that these days players are able to play into their 30's with relitively no decline. Only a year contract could cause a player to be poached by another club.
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In that case maybe a 3 year contract would be more apt? I don't know if clubs would be willing to pay Rooney anywhere near 300K if he's dropped off a level or two at 32/33.
 
Leroy The Red said:
Misleading statistics IMO.

Rooney is like Gerrard in that his stats are better than how he actually performs. Like Gerrard he does possess very good delivery from set pieces and this makes it look very good on paper, when you look at goals and assists.
But like Gerrard, Rooneys best form is behind him, the tenacity that made them the players they were have gone, Gerrard through age, Rooney because he believes he has done it all and has nothing to prove (and with another ridiculous payrise in the making, cant blame him) Like Gerrard though, whilst he's capable of making a great cross field long ball here and there, his short passing is wayward, his first touch can be very ugly and like Gerrard he moves with the ease of a disabled horse.
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That's a very good point. Rooney's assists stats portray him as a great creator of chances. The truth is that he isn't even in top 5 of the creators of "big chances", i.e. of clear cut chances. He isn't particularly creative from open paly.

He is still a great player mind. If I'm not mistaken, no one is against him signing a new contract. The question is that the conditions in that contract could make it quite difficult to (re)sign top performers on less than half of what Rooney is supposed to get, particularly if Rooney failed to improve on his performances over the last 2 years. Imagine that Januzaj, DDG, Mata, Rafael, Jones and other of our players develop into some of the worlds best performers in their positions. Or that we attempt to sign world class players. (Re)negotiating their contracts would be very difficult.
 
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amolbhatia100 said:
Just for my understanding, how do these things work if big players are on big wage contracts taking them into ages 33 or 34, and by 31/32 they decline and are nowhere near worth it? What is the contingent action for the club? Because the player will only be too happy to take home a huge pay at that age.
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Nothing really. Which is precisely why Rooney has insisted on such a long contract if the reports of the 5.5 yr long deal are true. He's ensuring he gets paid 300k a week till the end of his career. Ideally, we wouldnt want to give him more than 3 yrs but he holds all the cards.
 
It's funny the way opinion shifts on here. I always think there's a theme about whatever we did in the past was better. This intensifies when we're having a poor season. Most recently there's been a theme of 2008 being some sort of divine tiki taka glory, with Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez out-Barca'ing Iniesta and co. In reality, Tevez massively split opinions, lots wrote him off as a work horse with a heavy touch and a poor return in front of goal. Our midfield was a source of constant woe and people used to hark back to how much more exciting Ronaldo was as a winger and wonder why Fergie inisisted on playing Rooney wide left with Ronaldo up top. Not to mention Carlos Querozzzz having a few extra 'z's added to his name because of our incredibly conservative approach in Europe.

Which brings me back to Rooney. I remember when Fergie started playing him as a number 9 and there was outrage at forcing him to play a position that didn't make best use of his talents. People said it was a waste of his ability to score from range, to create goals and orchestrate play from deep. Besides, he was a crap finisher anyway. Thus said the caf.

Now there's an almost unanimous consensus that playing him as a 10 is a complete disaster. That he's a natural as a number 9 and it's ludicrous to ask him to play deeper. The reality, as always, is more complicated. Rooney started this season as a 10 and was sensational in that role. Rolling back the years to his very best performances in that position. Of course, most of the rest of the team was miles off the pace, results didn't go our way and the rot set in throughout the team. Not long after, Rooney got injured and is taking a few weeks to get up to speed (which is usually the case, when he's out for any length of time)

I'm rambling now but my main point is that Rooney is quite capable of playing in either of the two roles up top. And playing very well. It's far too simplistic to imply that he must play in one position or the other. As you will all see when he gets back into his stride and starts hitting some form again.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's funny the way opinion shifts on here. I always think there's a theme about whatever we did in the past was better. This intensifies when we're having a poor season. Most recently there's been a theme of 2008 being some sort of divine tiki taka glory, with Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez out-Barca'ing Iniesta and co. In reality, Tevez massively split opinions, lots wrote him off as a work horse with a heavy touch and a poor return in front of goal. Our midfield was a source of constant woe and people used to hark back to how much more exciting Ronaldo was as a winger and wonder why Fergie inisisted on playing Rooney wide left with Ronaldo up top.

Which brings me back to Rooney. I remember when Fergie started playing him as a number 9 and there was outrage at forcing him to play a position that didn't make best use of his talents. People said it was a waste of his ability to score from range, to create goals and orchestrate play from deep. Besides, he was a crap finisher anyway. Thus said the caf.

Now there's an almost unanimous consensus that playing him as a 10 is a complete disaster. That he's a natural as a number 9 and it's ludicrous to ask him to play deeper. The reality, as always, is more complicated. Rooney started this season as a 10 and was sensational in that role. Rolling back the years to his very best performances in that position. Of course, most of the rest of the team was miles off the pace, results didn't go our way and the rot set in throughout the team. Not long after, Rooney got injured and is taking a few weeks to get up to speed (which is usually the case, when he's out for any length of time)

I'm rambling now but my main point is that Rooney is quite capable of playing in either of the two roles up top. And playing very well. It's far too simplistic to imply that he must play in one position or the other. As you will all see when he gets back into his stride and starts hitting some form again.
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Agreed.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's funny the way opinion shifts on here. I always think there's a theme about whatever we did in the past was better. This intensifies when we're having a poor season. Most recently there's been a theme of 2008 being some sort of divine tiki taka glory, with Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez out-Barca'ing Iniesta and co. In reality, Tevez massively split opinions, lots wrote him off as a work horse with a heavy touch and a poor return in front of goal. Our midfield was a source of constant woe and people used to hark back to how much more exciting Ronaldo was as a winger and wonder why Fergie inisisted on playing Rooney wide left with Ronaldo up top.

Which brings me back to Rooney. I remember when Fergie started playing him as a number 9 and there was outrage at forcing him to play a position that didn't make best use of his talents. People said it was a waste of his ability to score from range, to create goals and orchestrate play from deep. Besides, he was a crap finisher anyway. Thus said the caf.

Now there's an almost unanimous consensus that playing him as a 10 is a complete disaster. That he's a natural as a number 9 and it's ludicrous to ask him to play deeper. The reality, as always, is more complicated. Rooney started this season as a 10 and was sensational in that role. Rolling back the years to his very best performances in that position. Of course, most of the rest of the team was miles off the pace, results didn't go our way and the rot set in throughout the team. Not long after, Rooney got injured and is taking a few weeks to get up to speed (which is usually the case, when he's out for any length of time)

I'm rambling now but my main point is that Rooney is quite capable of playing in either of the two roles up top. And playing very well. It's far too simplistic to imply that he must play in one position or the other. As you will all see when he gets back into his stride and starts hitting some form again.
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When Rooney is not playing well or is frustrated, he starts dropping deeper and deeper to get the ball. He sometimes needs to let the players around him do their job and for him to keep finding the space between their midfield and defence to exploit. Him coming deep results in the midfield being too crowded and no one in the '10' role. This entails us putting the ball out wide more often than not.

Overall I agree with your post, but my opinion still stands that we now have better players in the '10' role than Rooney, he should be played further forward as the main striker.
 
theyneverlearn said:
When Rooney is not playing well or is frustrated, he starts dropping deeper and deeper to get the ball. He sometimes needs to let the players around him do their job and for him to keep finding the space between their midfield and defence to exploit. Him coming deep results in the midfield being too crowded and no one in the '10' role. This entails us putting the ball out wide more often than not.

Overall I agree with your post, but my opinion still stands that we now have better players in the '10' role than Rooney, he should be played further forward as the main striker.
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Hmmm... I kind of think the opposite is true. He's not been dropping deep enough.

The main point is that, earlier in the season, when he was at his best nobody had any complaints about how he plays the role or whether he should be playing it at all. It's unfortunate that both our strikers were out so long at the same time and both of them are struggling for form since their return. Throw in a Juan Mata who's played feck all football this season and it's not a huge surprise that we lack invention and penetration up front. Which is all the more frustrating because we do seem to be finally getting a grip in midfield.

Basically, I think people are doing what they always do. Trying to "fix" a problem by shifting our best players to different positions or dropping them to the bench. I don't think chopping and changing will help them find their mojo. The opposite, if anything.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Hmmm... I kind of think the opposite is true. He's not been dropping deep enough.

The main point is that, earlier in the season, when he was at his best nobody had any complaints about how he plays the role or whether he should be playing it at all. It's unfortunate that both our strikers were out so long at the same time and both of them are struggling for form since their return. Throw in a Juan Mata who's played feck all football this season and it's not a huge surprise that we lack invention and penetration up front. Which is all the more frustrating because we do seem to be finally getting a grip in midfield.

Basically, I think people are doing what they always do. Trying to "fix" a problem by shifting our best players to different positions or dropping them to the bench. I don't think chopping and changing will help them find their mojo. The opposite, if anything.
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The three of them aren't compatible, that is quite clear. People had misgiving BEFORE Mata came in and it has only proven to be true since. A better manager may be able to have it working, but the main problem is a lack of pace/quality around them. Playing all three the game of one or two of them suffers. We may have been able to manage it if they were surrounded with better players, but they're not. Suggesting we play Rooney upfront (where he has shone previously) and letting one of the best no.10's in Europe play in his first decision is not bad thinking. The only problem is we have Van Persie a world class striker who still needs to get into the team. Like I said I would have no problem with us selling Van Persie and making Rooney-Mata are front two. Time will tell if we actually do it, but it isn't a bad idea.
 
JaffyJoe said:
The three of them aren't compatible, that is quite clear. People had misgiving BEFORE Mata came in and it has only proven to be true since. A better manager may be able to have it working, but the main problem is a lack of pace/quality around them. Playing all three the game of one or two of them suffers. We may have been able to manage it if they were surrounded with better players, but they're not. Suggesting we play Rooney upfront (where he has shone previously) and letting one of the best no.10's in Europe play in his first decision is not bad thinking. The only problem is we have Van Persie a world class striker who still needs to get into the team. Like I said I would have no problem with us selling Van Persie and making Rooney-Mata are front two. Time will tell if we actually do it, but it isn't a bad idea.
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I think we can fit them all in. Good players know how to play with one another. It's not ideal as one of them will likely to suffer as a result of being shunted from their favourite position but I'd still rather have all of them.
 
JaffyJoe said:
The three of them aren't compatible, that is quite clear. People had misgiving BEFORE Mata came in and it has only proven to be true since. A better manager may be able to have it working, but the main problem is a lack of pace/quality around them. Playing all three the game of one or two of them suffers. We may have been able to manage it if they were surrounded with better players, but they're not. Suggesting we play Rooney upfront (where he has shone previously) and letting one of the best no.10's in Europe play in his first decision is not bad thinking. The only problem is we have Van Persie a world class striker who still needs to get into the team. Like I said I would have no problem with us selling Van Persie and making Rooney-Mata are front two. Time will tell if we actually do it, but it isn't a bad idea.
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You're not seriously claiming that this is some sort of established fact after watching them play together for three games?

Sorry but that's mental.

You can argue the toss about how well RvP and Rooney work as a partnership because we've more games to analyse. I think it's fair to have doubts about this but our record with both of them in the team, compared to one or other of them missing speaks volumes.
 
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