Let's wait for him to get his first senior cap for Spain before we talk about him being in the top 3 best keepers in the world.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter gooDevil
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Let's wait for him to get his first senior cap for Spain before we talk about him being in the top 3 best keepers in the world.
I'm happy with the Rooney deal but the length seems insane.
Unless we're gonna Pirlo him, and drop him back to a creative midfield position, he's gonna be an expensive bench option in a few years.
Unless we're gonna Pirlo him, and drop him back to a creative midfield position, he's gonna be an expensive bench option in a few years.
Hopefully we'll be able to sell him to a MLS team or something for a decent amount once he isnt first choice for us anymore. I imagine he would be up for that if he isnt getting enough games for his liking and Im sure there will be plenty of takers in the US, Qatar or wherever. I dont think the length of the contract will be a huge problem.
I'm happy with the contract. Don't know how I feel about him receiving the captaincy, although I'm unsure if anyone is more suited to it anyway.
I'll be happy enough if he signs the contract for a couple of reasons:
1. Anyone that can't see how valuable he is to us needs their eyes testing.
2. By increasing our wage cap to £300,000 it's a huge sign of intent and gives me confidence that we will have the wage structure to attract world class players in the summer.
1. Anyone that can't see how valuable he is to us needs their eyes testing.
2. By increasing our wage cap to £300,000 it's a huge sign of intent and gives me confidence that we will have the wage structure to attract world class players in the summer.
Just because we can afford to pay our players as if they are the best, doesn't mean they should be paid as much unless they perform like the best.
Rooney is a very good player but he is not one of the best player's in the world (or the league in my opinion). Suarez has just signed a £200k a week deal with Liverpool when he was performing as the best player in the league. RVP was signed on a similar figure when he was performing as one of the best players in the League. We signed Mata on c. £150k a week following 2 seasons where he was consistently one of the best player's in the league. There is a constant theme: perform like one of the best and be rewarded with a contract that remunerates you as such.
With Rooney he seems to feel like he has already done the work 4-5 years ago to justify rewards now. He talked a few months ago about "deserving to play in my position" and "everyone at the club knew where I wanted to play". You read the contrast with Mata for instance who is just happy to get on the pitch and talked (at Chelsea) about working harder in training to prove he is an asset to the team. Rooney on the other hand apparently deserves to play where he wants because of past glories. I always respected Fergie when he said "perform on the pitch and the money will come", with Rooney it seems the former is irrelevant.
The fact is Rooney isn't performing as a World Class player and shouldn't be remunerated as such. If at the end of the season he's won PoTY and lead a charge towards 4th, absolutely reward him. Until then in my mind he's just a very good attacking player, of which we have 3 or 4.
If I was Moyes I'd be putting him on a significant bonus related salary if we do renew. It seems Rooney concentrates more on his finances than his Football these last 3-4 years so why not combine the two? If he's fit enough to play 50 games and win us the League or a trophy (or even a personal accolade), pay him £3-4m as a bonus. I mean it's quite telling that he hasn't played 45+ games in a season for the last 4 years and hasn't played more than 48 since 06/07. This would also show him leading by example for a change, "pay me the salary when I win you trophies".
Bear in mind the last time Rooney won a player of the month award was January 2010. He really has had a quite spectacular fall from grace in my opinion, 2005-2007 at his best he won 4. Since then none in four years.
It's either we pay him £300 grand a week or Chelsea do. Simple as.
I sometimes feel as if I'm in purgatory when it comes to debates about Rooney. He's been 'not as good as he was a few years ago' since he was 21, according an endless parade of football geniuses.
Four years in which he averaged more goals/game than Van Nistelrooy did in his entire career at United. Along with racking up a tally of assists that Ruud could only dream of.
And this is a "spectacular fall from grace"?
Just goes to show how good a player he really is.
Seems a bit unfair to me to criticise Rooney for having an opinion about where he should play on the pitch. He has been shunted around the place more than anybody else in the squad over the years and always looks like he is giving his all - on the left, up front, behind the striker or in midfield. If when it is time to consider his future because his contract is running down he wants to factor in where he is being played, and move to a team where he will be played in his favourite position, that seems perfectly acceptable to me. It would be unprofessional for him to kick off about being played out of position, either refusing to do it or looking disinterested while out on the pitch. But he didnt do that.
In fact a few seasons before I seem to remember him saying the same as Mata, maybe when he was playing on the left, and he said he was happy playing anywhere as long as he was playing. Didnt he say something about how we played like Brazil and he loved it here? That was a long time ago now.
You won't attract big players by giving Rooney 300k, you will atract them by giving them 300k.
I don't see how us giving Rooney new contract will atract new players. We didn't want to offer more than 30 millions for Fabregas(I don't know how high wages we offered him), but we are giving 300k to Rooney. Yeah, Fabregas must be flattered when he makes the comparision, we didn't want to offer more than 30 millions for him, but we gave Rooney 300k and bought Fellaini for 27, he is probably the most flattered player in the world.
Btw, I don't care about the wages, I don't care if Rooney is worth 300k(he obviously isn't), I just find that argument about attracting big players with giving Rooney 300k contract ridiculous because the only message that we are sending is that Rooney is the player this team will be built around, and no one else, and most world class player we would want to buy I am sure would want the same, and with Rooney in the team they will not get it.
I don't see how us giving Rooney new contract will atract new players. We didn't want to offer more than 30 millions for Fabregas(I don't know how high wages we offered him), but we are giving 300k to Rooney. Yeah, Fabregas must be flattered when he makes the comparision, we didn't want to offer more than 30 millions for him, but we gave Rooney 300k and bought Fellaini for 27, he is probably the most flattered player in the world.
Btw, I don't care about the wages, I don't care if Rooney is worth 300k(he obviously isn't), I just find that argument about attracting big players with giving Rooney 300k contract ridiculous because the only message that we are sending is that Rooney is the player this team will be built around, and no one else, and most world class player we would want to buy I am sure would want the same, and with Rooney in the team they will not get it.
97 goals in 210 starts in his first five years, 111 goals in 175 starts in the next five, with probably a dozen more games this season.
You seem to be confused about the difference between transfer fees and wages.
Goes to show how great a talent he was. How he isn't consistently one of the best player's in the League really is a let down. Just goes to show the difference between a Ronaldo level of dedication and a mercenary. Two players with similar natural talent, one deserving of 300k a week because of on field performances, one apparently deserving because of opportunism and an aggressive agent.
Not sure those are the only two options.
Since the start of last season Rooney has played in 64 games and scored 27 goals. Hardly a good return for a supposedly world class striker. He has been used in midfield in some games. Still, not a good excuse, IMO, given that players who play only in CM still manage to score as many as Rooney or even more.
Of course he bloody is.
I can't think of any centre midfield player averaging nearly a goal every other game?
Guys, we must be wrong.
Wayne Rooney is clearly the worst player we've ever had. He's never done a thing for us and just gets carried by his teammates week in week out.
Wayne Rooney is clearly the worst player we've ever had. He's never done a thing for us and just gets carried by his teammates week in week out.
Fat Frank did quite well at Chelski I think?
He's started 56 games. Just below 1 in 2 for the time period you're talking about. Which would be excellent return for a number 9, never mind someone who was often picked to play much deeper. There's not a CM in the world who can average that kind of strike-rate, so I've no idea where you got that idea from.
Also, he got 27 assists over the same period of time. You conveniently forgot to mention this statistic.
He's averaging one every three or four games according to his wiki. 27 goals in 64 games would be an amazing return for a centre midfield, even an attacking midfielder.
Of the fifty six games Rooney has started in the last two seasons only six have seen him play as a number 9. He's assisted 34 goals while scoring a mere 27 in that time. Compare this to the one season in his entire career where he's consistently played as a number nine, wherein he managed just 5 assists all year, but scored 34 goals in forty two games.
It saddens me to have to point this out routinely in these debates about Rooney, but the role he is given makes a huge difference to the nature of his contribution. It's up to his manager to decide which role is a better use of his talents, but wherever he plays he contributes constantly.
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Surely it's not hard to assume that I used our offer to Barcelona like indication how much we valued him?
You would think that if we offered 30millions for a player in his best years in today's market that we haven't sent the best message to him, aren't we? As I said, we bought Fellaini for that kind of money, and you could bet that we weren't going to give him(Fabregas) ridiculous wages if we didn't want to offer more than 30 millions, when he is in today's crazy market worth easily over 50.
Fair enough, quite pleased with how close I was, not bad for a punt.
In 7th place, facing a player exodus in the summer, with David Moyes as manager, and a big question mark over our ability to recruit what's needed, we can't afford to let Wayne go. If he walks, we face the real prospect of starting next season with a weaker team than this season, under the same manager. And we know what happened this season.
Maybe, if we could be sure of keeping Robin van Persie, injury free, and fully committed..? That looks a long shot though. It makes sense to hold on to Wayne at all costs.
Maybe, if we could be sure of keeping Robin van Persie, injury free, and fully committed..? That looks a long shot though. It makes sense to hold on to Wayne at all costs.
Don't be silly, of course those aren't our only two options at this point.
You realise there doesn't have to be a direct correlation between transfer fee offered to a club and the wages offered to a player, right?
You see any other possible scenario?
I must have missed all those Ballon D'Or close finishes, PL player of the year awards/nominations and golden boot wins over the last few seasons.
Currently he's not one of the best 5 players in the league or 20 in the World. Why pay him like he is?
Yeah, it doesn't have to be when we are talking about players team want to get rid because they are old, or they are in last year of their contract, but when we are talking about player in his best football years whose team is very happy with him, and is he is happy with them, and he is one of the best players in the world in his position, of course we are connecting those two. If we didn't want to offer more than 30 millions for Fabregas, then we:
a) thought he wasn't worth more than 30 million pounds,
b) didn't have money to offer more,
and considering that we "sent the message" with giving Rooney new contract that we have money to spend, then I think it's quite obvious what was the case with Fabregas.
Certainly, we could choose to wait for at least a season's worth of improved performances for one. The club might explore what foreign options are available, perhaps with Rooney as part of a bid for another players. Alternatively we could hold him to his present contract as suits United's immediate needs or offer him a shorter deal of lesser salary in the same vane.
Toure, Vidal and Ramsey have outscored Rooney this season. Vidal has scored more goals than Rooney since the start of last season. Toure has scored only 3 goals less than Rooney over the same period.
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Where would you rank him then, amongst the Top 5 players in the PL?
It's apparent to me that Rooney has no interest in going abroad, I don't think any of Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern would be interested in him anyway. From what I gather he either signs a contract here or with one of our domestic rivals.
Just below 1 in 2 is a very good return for a striker, though not for one who pretends to be among the best in the world, IMO. He hasn't been great for a whole season since 09/10.
Compare Suarez stats for the same period: 53 goals in 69 games. Now, that's a world class return.
Yeah and Luis Suarez will be on the same wage in 2 years.....with like 1/5th of the marketability. So do your own math.
But twice the ability.
Also glad to know we have a psychic on here.
Unless he ends up playing Norwich every week then he hasnt twice the ability.
Come back to us when Suarez proves himself in the CL.
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