Yup. Rooney signing a new contract means nothing tbh, not for me anyway. If he came out and talked about him wanting to stay and with us extending, then it will make me feel different, but I think Rooney signing is just a way of us protecting our asset.Rooney signs new contract. Chelsea then to make 'unrefusable' offer in the summer in what is a glorfied swap deal that ends looking a lot better for us than what could have happened last summer.
This may not be against the realms of possibility. Unlikely though.
You're crazy.Call me crazy but I'd prefer to keep Rooney here than RvP.
I fully expect one of them to leave in the summer and my money is still on Wayne, new contract or not.Call me crazy but I'd prefer to keep Rooney here than RvP.
Head in the sand
Call me crazy but I'd prefer to keep Rooney here than RvP.
Obviously the situation is different for both players as one seems far more intent of getting out of this club than the other, but I'd rather keep a 28 year old Rooney entering his prime than a 31 year old RvP who appears to be succumbing to his old injury ridden ways again.You're crazy.
If he signs a new contract we won't sell him to Chelsea, have we ever sold a 'star' player to a direct rival? Saying that if he refuses to sign a deal by the summer then I fear he will be sold to Chelsea and probably on the cheap.What happen to Ohhh Robin, then?
I agree with you that it lubricates the wheels. The only bit of this i dont agree with is that he will sign a contract even if he has no intention of staying. I know Ronaldo did that but I think that was quite unusual, wasnt it? (If this happens a lot then fair enough, Im not aware of it.) It would seem enormously self defeating for him to do that, given that the closer he is to being out of contract he is the more his market value goes down and the higher his expected wages would be. I cant imagine Stretford being so altruistic TBH. I imagine their position will be, if you wanted to maximise the money youd get for him you should have sold him last summer. If you want to make some money, let him go now or this summer. Or you can force him to wind down his contract all the way, which Rooney would probably not be too keen on but at least would be compensated with a bumper salary in his final contract.Like it or not the Mata deal lubricates the wheels for Rooney to Chelsea. The United and Chelsea representatives that complete the Mata deal will be the same ones working on a Rooney to Chelsea switch in the summer. We are signing the best replacement for Wayne Rooney that we could have got from the premier league and hes going to want to play where Rooney has always been number 1 for United and nobody else has had much of a look in, in the space behind the striker leading the line. And with us well out of the title race and realistically having a fight for 4th place, the same guy who was worried about the club achieving success a couple of years ago, asked to leave in the summer and has made a point of it not to say he's staying even after we changed manager, is only more likely than ever to push through a deal.
We could get him to sign a new contract, perhaps that will happen but that certainly wouldn't be an end to the situation in itself. Not without the player also stating what he's failed to do so far, that he has every intention of staying. Realistically all a new contract would do (alone) is give us more power in negotiating with Chelsea, probably a payday for Rooney and if we tell him we're okay with him going to Chelsea of course he'll sign it. Chelsea would have to pay a bit more and Rooney would get the move he wants.
However, if he signed a new contract and said he was staying then that would be a different story. Rooney and Mata could play in the same team and I'm sure we'll see that in the next few months. But given Rooney's actions in the past, what he's deliberately not saying, how uncompetitive we've been this season and now having the ideal replacement, all the omens are bad and its no use hiding from it. But stranger things have happened than Rooney changing his mind.
Yeah.Call me crazy but I'd prefer to keep Rooney here than RvP.
Well obviously we'd all (bar sparky) want to keep both our best players.I'd rather we keep them both and use Van Persie as we should: a luxury player rather than relying on him so heavily that we play him injured and lose him for most of the season.
All we have to do is change the formation a little bit and we can comfortably keep all our best players happy playing in positions theyll be perfectly comfortable in and will get the best out of them. We could probably use a really strong defensive midfielder to make it work optimally, but even using two of Carrick, Fletcher, Felliaini and Jones in those positions it can be made to work I reckon. we'll concede but we'll just have to outscore people.
I agree with you that it lubricates the wheels. The only bit of this i dont agree with is that he will sign a contract even if he has no intention of staying. I know Ronaldo did that but I think that was quite unusual, wasnt it? (If this happens a lot then fair enough, Im not aware of it.) It would seem enormously self defeating for him to do that, given that the closer he is to being out of contract he is the more his market value goes down and the higher his expected wages would be. I cant imagine Stretford being so altruistic TBH. I imagine their position will be, if you wanted to maximise the money youd get for him you should have sold him last summer. If you want to make some money, let him go now or this summer. Or you can force him to wind down his contract all the way, which Rooney would probably not be too keen on but at least would be compensated with a bumper salary in his final contract.
We'll see. I always thought Ronaldo was an extraordinarily good bloke to sign that final contract, but his position was slightly different because money was no object to Madrid, they would pay him astronomical wages AND us a massive transfer fee, their pursuit of him was relentless. Rooney is not in quite the same boat, I imagine Chelsea will go to a certain point for him but they arent going to break any records to bring him, there is a line they are unlikely to cross. So more money for the transfer probably means less money for the salary.
Rooney on current form is undroppable. Would take a brave man to drop RvP too.Carrick and Fletcher mainly sitting, with Mata, Kagawa and Januzaj roaming in front of them and RvP up front, for instance. Then have Rafael/Evra provide width. Don't see why this shouldn't work.
It would require us to move away from the wide areas being our main attacking tactic.
For one reason or another I just can't see Rooney seamlessly integrating into a three behind the lone striker. I think he lacks a bit of flexibility and ability to drift wide and make space.
Rooney on current form is undroppable. Would take a brave man to drop RvP too.
We'll see. I just dont see what Rooney gains out of it. It seems like all the things you mention as incentives for Rooney are things he has anyway without signing a new contract. He wouldnt get more money signing, he'd get less. He would get a promise of being able to go to Chelsea, so what? He can go there anyway. He already holds all the cards. Did RVP sign a contract with Arsenal before signing for us? But anyway, we'll see soon enough.It happens more often than not in football, but we're rarely selling our best players when they arent past their sell by date. Ronaldo was one of the ones we did and we followed the same pattern the majority of teams do when they accept a player is leaving and want to ensure they get an acceptable amount for them. Get them to sign a new deal and force the buying club to put their money where their mouth is. For example Valencia got Mata to sign a new deal and he was off to Chelsea not long after.
Again we don't really do it because we dont really sell our best players while they're still sought after but Ronaldo is a good indication that we'd do the same thing if we are forced to move one of our best on because they have made up their mind to leave.
As for why Rooney would sign a new deal? More money in his pocket and the agreement he'd be allowed to sign for a rival club that he's chosen would surely do that. Wouldnt you take that deal in his position? I mean, if hes told we're willing to talk to a club we werent keen on doing business with before then thats Rooney and Stretford getting what they wanted so why wouldnt they play ball with how we want it to go?
Running the contract down and asking to leave are simply moves you make posturing for the agreement/deal you want. If you're being told you'll get that deal you wanted, then all the stuff with contracts, putting in official transfer requests and the rest of it don't matter much anymore, they've been used to secure what you wanted - unless you cant trust the people telling you they'll do what you want of course. Then you have issues like Suarez had in the summer where he felt he'd been told and had a clause for something when he didnt really. But usually a club like United wouldnt have a weird nonsense clause or tell a player they'll do something and then not see it through, so they wouldnt have to worry.
It could happen, but its unlikely.
I think Chelsea will actually go to any lengths to secure a player like Rooney when they have few Englishmen in their team. Even off the pitch think about how much it will affect sponsorship deals and their ability to grow the brand, let alone on the pitch. I just think Chelsea are being tight, knowing that we aren't in a good position to negotiate thanks to Rooney asking to leave and his contract running down. Why would they give us a penny more than they have to? A team which can be rivaling them in years to come? Especially when its just a matter of time and time is against us.
Lack of midfield players good enough (and not injured) to manage the transition?Also, it'll be interesting to see how Moyes handles the inevitable change of style that we would surely need to go through for Mata to shine - and in that case, why haven't that process started from the start of the season?
We'll see. I just dont see what Rooney gains out of it. It seems like all the things you mention as incentives for Rooney are things he has anyway without signing a new contract. He wouldnt get more money signing, he'd get less. He would get a promise of being able to go to Chelsea, so what? He can go there anyway. He already holds all the cards. Did RVP sign a contract with Arsenal before signing for us? But anyway, we'll see soon enough.
I dont believe he cares two shits what stick he gets off fans, he's been there and done it with Everton fans and frankly I imagine he cares more about them, he is one of them after all. And he already has his rapidly deteriorating market value to encourage United to sell. Its the same situation as with RVP and us, we can be pig headed and keep him around, it is obviously an option but then we get nothing for him at all. Whereas if we sell him in the summer we get £20m or whatever it is. I imagine the bean-counters at United will be making the case for doing that, just as they did at Arsenal, despite Wenger's protestations. And we also have the Curious Incident of the Mata Transfer, which suggests to me some kind of agreement, whether it is formal or of a more gentlemanly variety, has already been agreed with Chelsea. Why would Rooney need to sign a contract to pay United off to do something that Mourinho has already paid for with the Mata transfer?Well he could go there anyway, but only after his contract is finished. And then its up to Rooney whether he wants to wait another season when he doesnt want to be here.
Why wouldnt he sign the contract if he gets what he wants this summer? A lot faster and wouldnt have the negative situation of having to run his contract right to the end only to sign for a rival club. I'm sure the fans would give him less grief if we get a good fee for him instead of having to see him leave for free.
I know. Which makes this whole Mata-signing a bit of a bitch for Moyes to accomodate, me thinks. I don't think Mata is at his best from a wide position although he'll be free-roaming enough.
Also, it'll be interesting to see how Moyes handles the inevitable change of style that we would surely need to go through for Mata to shine - and in that case, why haven't that process started from the start of the season?
Next time he would be 33 or something? Id he happy to sell him to a MLS club then.Would people press him close to their hearts once again if he gets a contract renewal with an even bigger pay check? What about next time...
There won't be a next time, this will be his last big contract.Would people press him close to their hearts once again if he gets a contract renewal with an even bigger pay check? What about next time...
I dont believe he cares two shits what stick he gets off fans, he's been there and done it with Everton fans and frankly I imagine he cares more about them, he is one of them after all. And he already has his rapidly deteriorating market value to encourage United to sell. Its the same situation as with RVP and us, we can be pig headed and keep him around, it is obviously an option but then we get nothing for him at all. Whereas if we sell him in the summer we get £20m or whatever it is. I imagine the bean-counters at United will be making the case for doing that, just as they did at Arsenal, despite Wenger's protestations. And we also have the Curious Incident of the Mata Transfer, which suggests to me some kind of agreement, whether it is formal or of a more gentlemanly variety, has already been agreed with Chelsea. Why would Rooney need to sign a contract to pay United off to do something that Mourinho has already paid for with the Mata transfer?
Like I said, maybe you are right, Im no expert. I just see no logic to Rooney signing a new contract with us unless he wants to stay. I cant see Stretford doing it, even if I could see Rooney being up for it.
The closer a player is to being out of contract the lower his market value. And the less a club has to pay another club for a player the more money it has to pay in wages. Chelsea might think, right, we are happy to pay £30m for Rooney and then whatever, say £10m for the sake of argument, in wages over a 3 year contract. That is £40m in all. If they can get Rooney for £10m they might be willing to pay him higher wages, say £20m - double his salary - over the same period, and still be paying £10m less for him overall. This is why people leaving on frees after the Bosman ruling were paid disproportionately high wages, because clubs werent paying transfer fees and could afford to pay more wages while still being quids in. didnt that happen with Sol Campbell when he left Spurs on a free, he was paid a King's Ransom by Arsenal if I remember rightly.I dont understand why you think Rooney will be paid less if we get a higher fee for him. Whether he leaves with a year on his deal, or we get him to sign for 3 more years and he's sold in the summer, Chelsea will still be getting him at a cut price. We wont be getting £50-60 million like some people would want for Rooney in a perfect world. And after all their effort, as if they'll let wages decide whether or not they eventually get him. They'll give him whatever he wants
Hang on, reading your post again now Im lost. If we would still be selling Rooney for a cut price, what was the point in getting him to sign the contract in the first place?Whether he leaves with a year on his deal, or we get him to sign for 3 more years and he's sold in the summer, Chelsea will still be getting him at a cut price.
I've seen a lot of places mention buying out his contract. Isn't it the the case that clubs have agreed not to use the Webster rule?
The problem was reading his post. Stp doing that and you'll be fine.Hang on, reading your post again now Im lost. If we would still be selling Rooney for a cut price, what was the point in getting him to sign the contract in the first place?
Im going to take Irwin's advice on this one Ekeke, there's only so long I can be bothered to argue about what will or wont happen in the future. Time will clear all this up for us.
