Where Rooney is playing now and where SAF played him at times last season had nothing to do with one another. Last season he was at times played as a true CM, what we're seeing now is different.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
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Where Rooney is playing now and where SAF played him at times last season had nothing to do with one another. Last season he was at times played as a true CM, what we're seeing now is different.
yeah..that's what I said....'albeit differently'..but it's still not the position he wants right?
Yes, check them. His PL page says 13 assists and 8 goals. His CL page says 6 assists and 2 goals. COC stats say 2 assists 0 goals.
Anyway, this isn't even my argument
I'm sorry if I misunderstood, we only know he doesn't wanna play as a proper CM. This being different, I don't know if he is hating it or loving it. FWIW he sure isn't playing like a player who's not enjoying his football. Another great performance by him.
It's his best position though and where he's spent most of his career playing, I never understood the argument coming from the Rooney camp in the summer about him wanting to play as an out and out number nine, it just seemed like an excuse to me. We have to play him deeper, we can't play 4-4-2, our CM isn't good enough, thankfully Moyes has realised this now.
yes a great performance and I really hope Moyes has persuaded him over several matters. For some stupid reason, I almost feel that RVP's slight removal as top dog has re-invigorated him mentally....he's back up there again and perhaps that is a reason why he's playing better and enjoying his football here so much more.
Yes, check them. His PL page says 13 assists and 8 goals. His CL page says 6 assists and 2 goals. COC stats say 2 assists 0 goals.
Anyway, this isn't even my argument
You have misread the stats.
It says 13 assists but it isn't just counting Premier League games. So if you click on the assist stat where it says 13 it comes up with '0.59 per game' - which obviously isn't the ratio of 13 assists in 14 games.
He has 8 Premier League assists and if you choose to give the two against Leverkusen then it would be 16 altogether.
He was already playing well with RVP fit but I get what you mean, he's the "main" man now and he has stepped up this season.
I don't think he ever had an issue with dropping deep and orchestrating the play as a number 10. He doesn't like 1) playing out wide, something he had to do at the Bernabeu for example and 2) in central midfield. And to be honest he's at best decent in those positions, "can do a job" but not much more. Though he had some brilliant games as a wide forward so it might just depend on his mood.
Just had a look back. I only make it 10 league assists
He had 3 assists against Leverkusen undisputedly. They don't count assists for own goals on who scored but they are most definitely still assists, just like normal ones. The other one that is debatable is a shot. The assists in the premier league that might be debated are whenever he won a penalty that RVP scored, if it happened ever (don't remember). They don't give out assists for anything else that's debatable though. Whatever it is, 18, 21, he's got loads so far.
The number of assists he has is 18, from my collection of clips.
Premier League assists:
Two assists vs. Swansea: one assist to Van Persie and one assist to Welbeck.
One assist vs. Southampton: one assist to Van Persie. Rooney's shot saved by goalkeeper which came back to Van Persie.
One assist vs. Stoke: one assist to Van Persie. Header saved by goalkeeper into the path of Van Persie. Similar to SOTON assist.
One assist vs. Fulham: pass to Valencia.
One assist vs. Arsenal: assist from corner to Van Persie.
One assist vs. Cardiff: assist from corner to Evra.
One assist vs. Aston Villa: assist to Cleverley.
Two assist vs. West Ham: one assist to Welbeck and one assist to Young.
That's 10 Premier League assists.
Champions League assists:
One assist vs. Bayer Leverkusen (H): assist to Valencia on the counter.
One assist vs. Real Sociedad: assisted an own goal - shot rebounded off post.
Four assists vs. Bayer Leverkusen (A): assisted Valencia, an own goal, Evans, and Smalling.
That's 6 Champions League assists.
Capital One Cup:
One assist vs. Liverpool: assist from corner to Hernández.
One assist vs. Norwich: assisted Fabío's goal.
That's 2 Capital One Cup assists.
And that's 18 assists altogether.
Premier League assists:
Two assists vs. Swansea: one assist to Van Persie and one assist to Welbeck.
One assist vs. Southampton: one assist to Van Persie. Rooney's shot saved by goalkeeper which came back to Van Persie.
One assist vs. Stoke: one assist to Van Persie. Header saved by goalkeeper into the path of Van Persie. Similar to SOTON assist.
One assist vs. Fulham: pass to Valencia.
One assist vs. Arsenal: assist from corner to Van Persie.
One assist vs. Cardiff: assist from corner to Evra.
One assist vs. Aston Villa: assist to Cleverley.
Two assist vs. West Ham: one assist to Welbeck and one assist to Young.
That's 10 Premier League assists.
Champions League assists:
One assist vs. Bayer Leverkusen (H): assist to Valencia on the counter.
One assist vs. Real Sociedad: assisted an own goal - shot rebounded off post.
Four assists vs. Bayer Leverkusen (A): assisted Valencia, an own goal, Evans, and Smalling.
That's 6 Champions League assists.
Capital One Cup:
One assist vs. Liverpool: assist from corner to Hernández.
One assist vs. Norwich: assisted Fabío's goal.
That's 2 Capital One Cup assists.
And that's 18 assists altogether.
Impressive stats from Rooney!
Right well this is obviously where the issue is, the keeper spilling or saving a shot has never been counted as an assist. Whether you want to use transfermarkt, whoscored, ESPN whatever.
So counting all of those, he's got 14 actual assists as plenty of people don't really count it if it's a shot that the keeper saved and bounced to somebody (Southampton, Stoke, Sociedad, Evans' goal v Leverkusen). 14 assists, then 4 "potential" assists. Still a remarkable amount for only half a season, and half a season where we have been so poor for the most part.
It's all about perception and what the word "assist" means when on a football field. Transfermarkt uses the same system. I don't see why they shouldn't count as assists, as an assist is helping a player out. The goals Van Persie scored vs. Southampton and Stoke both should count as assists because Rooney has helped Van Persie out by giving him an open goal to aim at. WhoScored use a flawed system. Their definition - or Opta's definition - of an assist is a final pass that leads to a goal, yet they blatantly forget that a final pass isn't the only way that a team-mate can help create goals. Ultimately, 18 assists isn't "ridiculous" in any way.
However you look at it Rooney's goals/assists are incredible for this season. He adds so much to the team basically playing as a third midfielder like he is atm, but how long before it makes him sad again? Hopefully not before Carrick returns. Rooney was playing well on a personal level earlier in the season but having him and RvP both so high up the pitch was to the detriment of the team, and it wasn't translating into good overall team performances. Him playing deeper means we have penetration and range from midfield and a good link between midfield and the forwards. Now there isn't a big wide open space between two deep midfielders and two forwards both running behind the opposition defence at the same time. Rooney attacks that space from deep now.
I think he's needed there until we strengthen the midfield really. We're so week there and Rooney knows that we as a team will struggle if we do a midfield 2 with jones and cleverley, so he drops back. He's still better off further up the pitch to me, and once we get a proper midfielder and Carrick comes back it can free him a little to move up the pitch.
Also I think he's fine as long as he's seen as the main man and not being moved around because rvp has his spot taken like last season. Under moyes it's obvious who is the main man to united.
He's been the difference and showed how improved we are with a creative CM. We've missed Carrick greatly in that role.
Rooney playing in the gap that's been there all season in our PL run. He just gets what's required in that position for our system. It becomes an issue when the opposition congest the space and make it difficult to play through the middle but the extra help enables Jones and Cleverley more time on the ball. He's enjoying his football and long may it continue.
It was nice to see him combine with Welbz too. A great player having a great season.
It was nice to see him combine with Welbz too. A great player having a great season.
He's got 36 assists in the last 5 seasons.That's more than anyone in the PL.
Imagine: If Fergie had stayed he'd be gone and Ozil would be in his place...
Incredible are Ramsey's stats who has scored more goals in all compets than Rooney, despite playing in central midfield, not to mention the stats of that Liverpool's forward. Rooney's goals/assists are perfectly normal for a top player. Look at the stats of other top forwards like Zlatan or Aguero and you'll get what I mean. If he didn't have such stats he would have been underperforming, as he was last season.
A bit of a shame that he stopped playing in the second half yesterday, did his best to effectively kill the game.
I think they're great stats in an underperforming side, which we are. We've hardly given him great service, played lots of forward balls or even accurate crosses to feed our strikers. Added to that he's spent a lot of time in midfield these past few games and is still getting lots of assists. Feel free to disagree with it but I'll stick with my opinion.
Since most of what we do is being channeled through him, you would expect him to grab plenty of assists, even more so in an under-performing side which is relying on him.
Rooney is partly responsible for our underwhelming performances though. He was poor/average vs Brom, Soton, Everton, Sunderland. If he was really incredible, we wouldn't have struggled in the league so much. Don't tell me that without Rooney we would have been battling relegation. He has made some difference, not a big one though.
If you look back in this thread I was making that point months ago. Really good goals assists stats whichever way you look at it though.
Everything was actually going via the flanks actually. We play the smallest % of our attacks through the middle in the entire league actually so I'm not sure that's fair. It's just that Rooney and RvP are more likely to affect a game with a bit of magic even when they've been starved of service than anyone else.
Not a big difference ? Impossible to agree with that.
I'm not quite sure where your stats are coming from, but we're attacking down the wings less than we did last season.
Really good yes, incredible - no. Incredible is something rarely seen, whereas what Rooney has done so far is pretty normal for top players. 10 goals in all compets is a bit average for top forwards but he has compensated with many assists. He's been really good indeed.
In my opinion the reasons he wanted to leave last season weren't because he was played deeper - I think it was purely an ego thing as he wasn't in great form and was unhappy missing big games and lost his untouchable status to RVP. I'd be surprised if he is unhappy playing deeper just now as he is still playing well and getting plenty of praise and very much our main man.
I think he will sign a new contract as well.
I think he will sign a new contract as well.
Where would we have been without Rooney this season? I guess still not below Hull in the table and not many points behind Newcastle. Surely, we wouldn't have been with less points than Hull? Moyes isn't brilliant by any stretch of the imagination but he couldn't make us worse than the midtable teams. We have got an excellent squad, Kagawa and Januzaj could have played as No 10 if Rooney wasn't available.
Rooney made a real difference in the CL though. He was crucial vs Leverkusen.
No we aren't. 25% of our attacks this season go through the middle. 19th in the league with only Hull below us on 25% also. Last season we were in the middle.
Check whoscored.com.
So you're being pedantic over the word incredible?
Well I'm glad you find 'really good' more acceptable.
So you're being pedantic over the word incredible?
Pedantic? There's quite a difference between being incredible and being really good, e.g. between being like Ronaldo and being like Rooney.
Worth checking figures for our entire season not just the league. Some of our best games and those when we've been most creative through the middle (thanks to being able to combine in-form Rooney and Kagawa a few times) have been in the CL, and I think overall you'd be looking at something a little less unbalanced.
Yeah because I said he was the best in the world didn't I? People would be fawning over the stats if it was Özil. He could have 18-21 assists in all comps depending on which stats you look at. It's pretty damn good.
Feel free to do that with those stats.
Edit: 24 % of our attacks go through the middle in the CL which is 29th out of the 32 group stage teams.
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