You're clearly fawning over the stats now.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
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You're clearly fawning over the stats now.
I've been quite critical of Rooney playing high this season but can appreciate that he's contributing with good goals and assists this year.
Would you have preferred that scenario?
If we take it that he has 18 assists so far, that's 28 goals/assists in 21 starts. I'd say that's pretty good.
The main reason he only has 10 goals while Suarez has 19 is obviously because they're playing completely different roles. Rooney's had 47 shots in 14 games. Suarez has had 77 in 12. When Rooney was given the freedom to play Suarez's role and concentrate solely on his end product, he went on a run of 18 goals in 13 games in early 2010. This of course included the winning goal in the CC final, the 90th minute winner against City in the CC semi, 4 goals against Milan, the opening goal against Bayern and goals against Liverpool and Arsenal.
What has been so impressive about Rooney is his ability to produce in a variety of roles in an underperforming side playing with no fluency whatsoever. Given what he's produced in these conditions, there's every reason to believe he would be performing at unbelievable levels if given the right platform to play off. He was obviously sacrificing his own game and personal productivity goals for the team yesterday, for example. Suarez has not had to do this once. Bale last year did not have to do this once.
The main reason he only has 10 goals while Suarez has 19 is obviously because they're playing completely different roles. Rooney's had 47 shots in 14 games. Suarez has had 77 in 12. When Rooney was given the freedom to play Suarez's role and concentrate solely on his end product, he went on a run of 18 goals in 13 games in early 2010. This of course included the winning goal in the CC final, the 90th minute winner against City in the CC semi, 4 goals against Milan, the opening goal against Bayern and goals against Liverpool and Arsenal.
What has been so impressive about Rooney is his ability to produce in a variety of roles in an underperforming side playing with no fluency whatsoever. Given what he's produced in these conditions, there's every reason to believe he would be performing at unbelievable levels if given the right platform to play off. He was obviously sacrificing his own game and personal productivity goals for the team yesterday, for example. Suarez has not had to do this once. Bale last year did not have to do this once.
I agree with all of that.
I much prefer the way he is playing now though, even taking into account his goal tally in 09-10 when he was furthest forward. Wherever you play him you're always going to sacrifice something with Rooney, whether its deep and you lose some of his goalscoring or as a number 9 in which case you miss his passing and ability to dictate the game.
Rooney is brilliant, no less than, say, Suarez, but United are not able to give him the right platform to play off.
Well, I think that only some Rooney fans would agree with you.
Rooney made it quite clear in the summer that he wanted to move and no big club offered even half the money Real paid for Bale. Only Chelsea wanted him but they were reluctant to pay big money. If Rooney were that brilliant and capable of playing at "unbelievable levels" the best clubs would have been keen to sign him. Now, maybe they don't know how good he is. And Fergie didn't know too for he didn't start him against Real when it really really mattered, given that Fergie was about to leave the club in the summer and badly wanted to win the CL again. I guess you know better though.
Strange. I could've sworn that Suárez made it clear he wanted to leave this summer and the only club that made an offer for him valued him at half the money Real paid for Bale. We'll ignore that though.
What I'm saying is he's already shown in the past he can be as productive as Suárez has been over the past few weeks (against a higher calibre of opposition and on a bigger stage), and since Suárez has been in Liverpool he's been more productive than him. From January 2011 Rooney has gotten 70 goals and 46 assists in 115 starts. And that's without ever having had the team built around him the way it's been built around Suárez. Suárez has gotten 70 goals and 21 assists in 92 starts in that time. And yet it's somehow preposterous to suggest that he's even on the same level.
Why would clubs pay big money for Rooney given his contract situation?
His contract situation? It works both ways though. Exactly because we wouldn't want to lose him for half of his actual prise, we would be interested to sell him if a really good offer came in. There were two years left in the summer, that's not the same as 1 year left till the contract expires. The contract situation wasn't nice though and if some big club from abroad offered a lot of money we would have probably accepted it. I guess that Real or Bayern weren't interested exactly because they didn't find Rooney so much better than what they already have. If Real regarded Rooney as being in the same class as Bale, they would have went for Rooney because of his contract situation and would have saved 40 mil. pounds.
Suarez is playing better this season than Rooney ever has, and I'm no fan of Suarez.
Yes, for 13 games. In those first six games of 11/12 Rooney was playing better than he ever had done before, and that was following his run in the second half of 10/11 where he was our best player by a margin in our run to the CL final and league title. Forgive me for being a little sceptical that Suárez is going to keep up this form throughout the season.
That's all well and good, but either way, Suarez has played better this season than Rooney ever has.
Suarez didn't show before the summer the form he shows now though. That changes a lot. Whereas Rooney is 2 years older and has been already in his prime, Suarez is still developing as a player. Therefore the stats you cite tell only half of the truth for they don't reflect Suarez's improvement this season. I think you acknowledged yesterday that Suarez is playing better than Rooney ever has. There was a period several years ago when Rooney was nearly as prolific over 13 games as Suarez has been this season. But Rooney did take pens and the qualitiy of his goals was obviously inferior to the qualitiy of Suarez's goals. And when Rooney was that prolific in that period, he wasn't very creative, if I'm not mistaken. It seems to me that you were perfectly right when what you wrote yesterday. Of course, it's a bit early to draw firm conclusions. If Suarez goes through a dire period in the next months, the praise he gets now will seem to have been premature. Time will tell whether he has a purple patch or has quite improved as a player. Maybe it's a combination of the both, time will show the proportion.
Firstly, you're assuming Rooney is willing to go abroad which I dont think is the case. Isnt his wife's sister or someone in the family very sick and hence she needs to stay around?
And you're kidding yourself if you think Rooney wouldnt be first choice striker at Real or Bayern. There are various other reasons that determine whether or not a club comes in for a player or what they eventually pay for him, it cannot be determined by the bid value alone. Real sold Ozil for 40mil and bought Bale for 100, you think they think Bale's more than twice the player? No right?
She died at the start of the year.
Correct
That's all well and good, but either way, Suarez has played better this season than Rooney ever has.
Do you just like saying that or was there some reason for repeating yourself?
Maybe Rooney doesn't want to go abroad indeed, I don't know. The facts are that no one of the big boys on the continent bid for him. But why haven't Chelsea bid 50 + mill.? Because they want to sign him on the cheap?Or maybe because he isn't worth the money after all?
Rooney wasn't listed for Ballon d'Or, nor did he make the list of the best attacking players in the world for the calendar 2013. There is some reason for that, don't you think?
That's because he was out of form last season. That's not very difficult to grasp surely
Rooney is the most complete player in the league...
That is, because he can be quite inconsistent, unlke the very best players in the world.
But very productive nonetheless, more so than some of the 'very best players in the world'.
Ofcourse there was, he wasnt on form, was clearly unsetted at the club, so much so that had we not seen a managerial change, he wouldnt be a United player this season.
Why did chelsea not big 50mil? I dont know. Probably because of the outright manner in which we rejected their 2 bids and our clear stance on the matter. Any concrete info on what the 2nd bid actually was?
Many years ago I believed that Rooney was a very special player and dubbing him "the white Pele" didn't seem hilarious to me at all, on the contrary, I thought that he was destined to do great things. He had disappointed me though, he has become world class player but not even remotely close to being one of the truly great players in the history of the game. He is still 28 and has time to become even better. I wouldn't hold my breath but who knows, it's Christmas time Wish him all the best.
Wish him all the best.Would you tell me about those players.
Tap-ins and deflections was the majority of Rooney's 'productivity' last season
Sensible post.
I'd have expected you to stay in the shadows with Rooney doing so well but seems like a little Rooney hating proved too inviting to resist. Ah well...
Which players? You are one who brought up the 'very best players in the world'
You said that Rooney was more prolific than some of the very best players in the world. I'm asking about their names for I'm not sure you are right.
I just know how much it hurts for you to hear it
That is so, so sad for so many reasons.
I'm happy to acknowledge he's playing well this season, better than I expected and better than he has for a good while. But do carry on with the Rooney hater tag.
Rooney has the opportunity to beat Sir Bobby Charlton's goal scoring record and you don't think he will be classes as one of the greats if he accomplished that?Many years ago I believed that Rooney was a very special player and dubbing him "the white Pele" didn't seem hilarious to me at all, on the contrary, I thought that he was destined to do great things. He had disappointed me though, he has become world class player but not even remotely close to being one of the truly great players in the history of the game. He is still 28 and has time to become even better. I wouldn't hold my breath but who knows, it's Christmas time
Such as third favourite Ribery who wasn't on the shortlist for the last two years? Or maybe someone like Muller who wasn't in list last year but is this.
It's an interesting inconsistent interpretation of consistency being shown here.
It's an interesting inconsistent interpretation of consistency being shown here.
Take aguero for example. Many people consider him as one of the best forwards around currently, yet he's never scored more then 30 goals Ina. Season, and has only reached that total once. If he's world class, and amongst the best in the world, then surely Rooney is too given how much he impacts the rest of the game, as well as being more productive then aguero? Or how about ibrahimovic and him being very similar goal scoring wise, despite ibrahimovic being 4 years older, and playing in a much easier league throughout his whole career, having sides always built around him while Rooney always sacrificed his own reputation for the rest of the team? Any position Rooney has played in consistently, he has performed brilliantly in. When he was the main striker, he scored 34 goals both years. Playing behind the striker he usually managed around 20 goals but also go over 20 assists. That is great productivity, and shows that even when he has shite years like last year, he'll still make things happen for us.
Also the point you made on the last page about Madrid not being interested is irrelevant. The fact that they were willing to spend £100m for Bale is idiotic in the first place and shows that anything they do is usually pure stupidity and just going for big names in the media. Both Suarez and van Persie, and mata even were all better then bale last season but weren't British or media darlings. Rooney also had a pretty poor year with plenty of injuries, so of course clubs would be hesitant on bringing him in. You'll see this summer that almost every club around will be interested, just like there's already stories of Madrid looking into taking him for 20m in the summer because of the contract situation.
He was out of form last season. The season before that his scoring rate was similar or better than most of the strikers who are generally considered the best (Lewandowski, Falcao, Cavani). That's without even considering the other things he brings to United that all of those don't, assists and that all of them play as the central striker . Last season despite playing in different positions, being out of form and having injuries his productivity rate was almost as good as Mata's who everyone was wanking of to.
Ronaldo, Messi and Ibra are in a different league of course.
Well the tag is well deserved if last summer was anything to go by
bosnian_red said:
You make a lot of good points but noticed these two which are quite inaccurate. Ibrahimovic has played in a number of leagues, and the Dutch and French leagues are obviously a lot poorer than the Premier League, but he's also played in La Liga and Serie A. If you're using leagues as an argument, Ibrahimovic probably has the advantage since he's proven himself in a number of different leagues and has shown he's capable of adapting. Not that Rooney wouldn't be able to cut it abroad, but Ibrahimovic has proven he can go to a number of different teams with different styles and different countries with different cultures and still perform.
On the Bale one, he was comfortably as good as the other players you mentioned, if not better. The British media thing had always helped him and obviously caused him to be overrated, but it happened to the point where he almost became underrated because of it. He was excellent last season and the players mentioned there were hardly a lot better than him, if at all.
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