Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

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@Cheesy , I agree ibrahimovic is a fantastic player and I rate him as one of the worlds best, but it just shows how Rooney is also up there given how he has comparable stats playing in so many different positions at united, rather then having teams always built around him like ibrahimovic. The point was entirely arguing his point that Rooney isn't as productive as the other best players in the world, because that's just wrong.

As for bale, I think it's definitely very arguable to say he was better then the others or deserved to win player of the year. Goal scoring wise, he didn't do anything remarkable, scored 25 goals which is very good but hardly unheard of. The side built around him finished in 5th place in the league behind a very sub par arsenal team and failed to do anything in the cups. Van Persie meanwhile carried united to the title scoring 30 goals, while Chelsea won the Europa league and finished in the top 4 with mata being by far their best player. You could definitely say he made a bigger impact then bale did. Anyways, I'm not saying he isn't a great player, but Rooney and Suarez, and mats for that matter are all at their best better and more talented players. Yet Madrid through €100 million to spurs for him. So because of that it is a bit stupid to claim Rooney isn't top class because Madrid didn't want to sign him in the summer. Suarez is obviously on current form one of the best but even Rooney has had runs like that before, something bale has never gotten even close to doing to. E completely fair.
 
bosnian_red said:
Take aguero for example. Many people consider him as one of the best forwards around currently, yet he's never scored more then 30 goals Ina. Season, and has only reached that total once. If he's world class, and amongst the best in the world, then surely Rooney is too given how much he impacts the rest of the game, as well as being more productive then aguero? Or how about ibrahimovic and him being very similar goal scoring wise, despite ibrahimovic being 4 years older, and playing in a much easier league throughout his whole career, having sides always built around him while Rooney always sacrificed his own reputation for the rest of the team? Any position Rooney has played in consistently, he has performed brilliantly in. When he was the main striker, he scored 34 goals both years. Playing behind the striker he usually managed around 20 goals but also go over 20 assists. That is great productivity, and shows that even when he has shite years like last year, he'll still make things happen for us.

Also the point you made on the last page about Madrid not being interested is irrelevant. The fact that they were willing to spend £100m for Bale is idiotic in the first place and shows that anything they do is usually pure stupidity and just going for big names in the media. Both Suarez and van Persie, and mata even were all better then bale last season but weren't British or media darlings. Rooney also had a pretty poor year with plenty of injuries, so of course clubs would be hesitant on bringing him in. You'll see this summer that almost every club around will be interested, just like there's already stories of Madrid looking into taking him for 20m in the summer because of the contract situation.
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Aguero is still developing as a player, mate. He scored 30 goals in his first season in England and won the title for City. That was some achievment. Wouldn't say he is better than Rooney though. Maybe he has it in him though to move to another level, dunno about that. I think you under rate Bale. He won many games for a mediocre Spurs side with scoring great goals. I think that he's going to surprise you.
 
QuackQuack said:
Rooney has the opportunity to beat Sir Bobby Charlton's goal scoring record and you don't think he will be classes as one of the greats if he accomplished that?
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He'll be one of the United greats, but he wouldn't make the top 50 of the greatest footballers, maybe wouldn't make even top 100. Charlton won the World Cup. If Rooney wins it next summer, he'll be an all-time great.
 
Plugsy said:
He's 25. Rooney was receiving regular nominations for FIFA World Player of the Year from the age of 19.
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And?

This fact only shows that Rooney matured earlier than Aguero, not that the latter couldn't become a better player than Rooney. Aguero's ceiling is very high, IMO. He could be like Romario.
 
Treble said:
And?

This fact only shows that Rooney matured earlier than Aguero, not that the latter couldn't become a better player than Rooney. Aguero's ceiling is very high, IMO. He could be like Romario.
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You're the one who made nomination for that particular award the hallmark of consistency bollock-chops
 
Plugsy said:
You're the one who made nomination for that particular award the hallmark of consistency bollock-chops
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That response would be valid if they were the same age. Maybe we'll know better in 3 years when Aguero is going to be in his prime.
 
Treble said:
That response would be valid if they were the same age. Maybe we'll know better in 3 years when Aguero is going to be in his prime.
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I'm pretty sure Aguero has once been aged 18-24. A period where Rooney at notched up five nominations
 
Zen86 said:
Tap-ins and deflections was the majority of Rooney's 'productivity' last season ;)
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Scored, maybe, one deflected goal last season and we could have used one of his tap-ins in the two legs against Madrid.

I think some of the criticism of last season is overly negative. He had a frustrating first half of the season with injuries but in that time was still man of the match and scored twice in our most important victory of the season which went some way to set up our title win.

In January he came back from injury and scored 8 goals in 8 starts which helped us to pull away from City in the league and progress in the cup. We were so comfortable in the league that the only success left to play for was in the cup competitions. He didn't start either the 2nd leg vs Madrid or the replay against Chelsea which ended our runs in those competitions.

After that the season was essentially dead for us and the whole team played badly for the remainder of the season - not just Rooney.

His general play over the season was well below what we expect from him but we are used to seeing that when he returns from injuries, of which he had numerous last season. If we were still in the cup competitions going into April-May I have no doubt he would have recovered his form and scored some important goals for us.
 
Treble said:
Aguero is still developing as a player, mate. He scored 30 goals in his first season in England and won the title for City. That was some achievment. Wouldn't say he is better than Rooney though. Maybe he has it in him though to move to another level, dunno about that. I think you under rate Bale. He won many games for a mediocre Spurs side with scoring great goals. I think that he's going to surprise you.
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Before this season though, you could say that aguero disappointed a little from early expectations though. He's a fantastic player but he's always had consistency problems and got various little niggles. Happened again recently. He's widely regarded as one if the best strikers in the world, as is ibrahimovic, as is Suarez, lewandowski, falcao, cavani, van Persie, etc., and Rooney has had seasons every bit as good as them. That's the point I'm making here. All well and good saying some of them are more talented players or at their very best have more potential, but why does it matter if they show that a handful of times a year, and then you have Rooney with his incredible work rate who does so much to the team overall and has done so much for the past 10 years.

I probably do underrate bale, but is was arguing the point you made about Madrid not wanting Rooney meaning he's not that great. Who Madrid is interested is irrelevant because they were willing to spend so much on bale when they had ozil at the club and di Maria there already, and brought in isco. That's just pure stupidity. He's a very good player but it's laughable to call him to most expensive player of all time. It'll be impossible for him to live up it that unless he starts out performing Ronaldo. Also, yes he scored some great goals, but for 85 minutes in those matches, he was very quiet,but popped up with great goals to give them a 1-0 win. He did that really well in the second half of last season, but that alone is hardly worthy of best player in the league, at least to me, when you compare van Persie, Suarez, and mata all making far bigger impacts on games regularly over the course of 90 minutes and in the case of rvp and mata, actually achieving something with the teams.
 
Treble said:
Maybe I didn't get the point in your previous post.
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The point of my previous post is to say you use being nominated as player of the year as a bench mark of consistency.

Rooney has been nominated 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012.

You then cited Aguero as an example of a better player. Yet Aguero has received fewer nominations for the award you point to as the pinnacle of consistency up to his current age of 25 than Rooney did when reaching that age.

Rooney is 28 and has received 7 nominations, Aguero is 25 and received 3. I don't buy the argument that nomination is any indication of what you suggest it is but seeing as you suggest what you do, to use Aguero as someone to compare to Rooney favourably is just a nonsense and shows you're making an argument without thinking about or understanding much of what you're saying.
 
bosnian_red said:
Before this season though, you could say that aguero disappointed a little from early expectations though. He's a fantastic player but he's always had consistency problems and got various little niggles. Happened again recently. He's widely regarded as one if the best strikers in the world, as is ibrahimovic, as is Suarez, lewandowski, falcao, cavani, van Persie, etc., and Rooney has had seasons every bit as good as them. That's the point I'm making here. All well and good saying some of them are more talented players or at their very best have more potential, but why does it matter if they show that a handful of times a year, and then you have Rooney with his incredible work rate who does so much to the team overall and has done so much for the past 10 years.

I probably do underrate bale, but is was arguing the point you made about Madrid not wanting Rooney meaning he's not that great. Who Madrid is interested is irrelevant because they were willing to spend so much on bale when they had ozil at the club and di Maria there already, and brought in isco. That's just pure stupidity. He's a very good player but it's laughable to call him to most expensive player of all time. It'll be impossible for him to live up it that unless he starts out performing Ronaldo. Also, yes he scored some great goals, but for 85 minutes in those matches, he was very quiet,but popped up with great goals to give them a 1-0 win. He did that really well in the second half of last season, but that alone is hardly worthy of best player in the league, at least to me, when you compare van Persie, Suarez, and mata all making far bigger impacts on games regularly over the course of 90 minutes and in the case of rvp and mata, actually achieving something with the teams.
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I agree that Rooney is in that bracket of players, I haven't argued that he is worse than them. Some seasons he is worse, in other seasons he is better than them. Now, if Suarez goes on to play like that, he will be regarded as better than all of them.
 
Treble said:
I agree that Rooney is in that bracket of players, I haven't argued that he is worse than them. Some seasons he is worse, in other seasons he is better than them. Now, if Suarez goes on to play like that, he will be regarded as better than all of them.
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But Rooney is inconsistent and the others are not? Where's the logic in that?
 
Plugsy said:
The point of my previous post is to say you use being nominated as player of the year as a bench mark of consistency.

Rooney has been nominated 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012.

You then cited Aguero as an example of a better player. Yet Aguero has received fewer nominations for the award you point to as the pinnacle of consistency up to his current age of 25 than Rooney did when reaching that age.

Rooney is 28 and has received 7 nominations, Aguero is 25 and received 3. I don't buy the argument that nomination is any indication of what you suggest it is but seeing as you suggest what you do, to use Aguero as someone to compare to Rooney favourably is just a nonsense and shows you're making an argument without thinking about or understanding much of what you're saying.
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Well, I've already answered that point, Plugsy. Aguero has been less successful than Rooney but that fact doesn't imply that he won't be able to surpass Rooney in the next seasons, i.e. to play at a level at which Rooney hasn't been able to play.
 
Treble said:
He'll be one of the United greats, but he wouldn't make the top 50 of the greatest footballers, maybe wouldn't make even top 100. Charlton won the World Cup. If Rooney wins it next summer, he'll be an all-time great.
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Messi or Ronaldo have not won the WC so we can't use that as a measure of greatness.
 
Other than Zlatan (based on transfers and recently coexisting with cavani) is there a striker in the world as adaptable as Wayne Rooney?

Every season in a United shirt he's either added or changed something in his game for his team.

He might not score the most goals every season and he may be susceptible to the odd shocker, but he's changed his game to coexist with van Nistelrooy, Saha, Tevez, Ronaldo, Berbatov, Hernandez, Welbeck and now van Persie. Those players couldn't be more different yet Wayne Rooney has rarely struggled to play well with any of them. There aren't many other players out there who could go through constant change like that and maintain the high standards Rooney has.
 
QuackQuack said:
Messi or Ronaldo have not won the WC so we can't use that as a measure of greatness.
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On the contrary, it has always been used as a criterion of greatness. There are multiple criteria, success at international tournaments is one of them. Messi and Ronaldo haven't won the WC but they, unlike Rooney, have faired far better on the other criteria in comparison with Charlton.
 
I'm certain Rooney will be tied to the club by a bumper contract and we will see him installed as the captain until he retires. Moyes has done well managing him.

If we do end up winning the title...Rooney will be the player who would have had a the biggest influence.
 
Red Dreams said:
I'm certain Rooney will be tied to the club by a bumper contract and we will see him installed as the captain until he retires. Moyes has done well managing him.

If we do end up winning the title...Rooney will be the player who would have had a the biggest influence.
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I'm not sure about this. If we finish outside the top 4, does he want to spend possibly a couple of years not at the top during what could be his peak years?
 
amolbhatia100 said:
I'm not sure about this. If we finish outside the top 4, does he want to spend possibly a couple of years not at the top during what could be his peak years?
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No. Like Suarez, we'l only hold onto him if we finish in the CL places. Even then, there's a chance both wont be at their clubs next season.
 
He seems to be turning into a Paul Scholes type player. Where Scholes converted from striker to midfielder early on, Rooney seems to have started the transition during his peak years. Some of those cross-field passes he's been pinging are nothing short of Scholeseque, not to mention his reading of the game and his control of the tempo when he drops deep to collect the ball. Fergie tried to force it last season, but Moyes seems to have let it come to him naturally.
As a striker, I doubt he will ever be regarded as a great, as strikers are mostly valued based on their goal tallies. But as an AM he will be recognized for all the other things he brings to the game plus his goals.
Or maybe I'm just experiencing Scholes withdrawal.
 
Nah, nowhere near Scholes' class in midfield. He has a great cross field pass, but Scholes was technically something else.
 
Fergie's gum said:
He seems to be turning into a Paul Scholes type player. Where Scholes converted from striker to midfielder early on, Rooney seems to have started the transition during his peak years. Some of those cross-field passes he's been pinging are nothing short of Scholeseque, not to mention his reading of the game and his control of the tempo when he drops deep to collect the ball. Fergie tried to force it last season, but Moyes seems to have let it come to him naturally.
As a striker, I doubt he will ever be regarded as a great, as strikers are mostly valued based on their goal tallies. But as an AM he will be recognized for all the other things he brings to the game plus his goals.
Or maybe I'm just experiencing Scholes withdrawal.
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Rooney cannot be a great midfielder, doesn't have the technical ability to do well against top sides. Against the likes of Villa and Wham he looks good but he will be out of his depth against the best teams in the league should he play in midfield. Rooney is a forward. Full stop.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Nah, nowhere near Scholes' class in midfield. He has a great cross field pass, but Scholes was technically something else.
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yeah I agree, Scholes was technically better and also more talented. Rooney is a great player, but in both positions I don't think you would call him world class, although one might amongst the team we have at the moment!!
 
I've heard Clevs call him that during one of the Google hangouts that they did.
 
He's been having a great season personally and the team is hopefully starting to get a little run going. If we were to get two midfielders one who is an 'all rounder' and a more creative midfielder I would only see his goals tally increasing.

Comparing him with Ronaldo and Messi will always go against him but neither does the defensive work Rooney does (during barca's peak Messi was closing opponents down like a dog after a bone) and Ronaldo cannot come deep and dictate like Rooney does. He's a unique player, fans may say he is not as good as the others because he is not as skillful or polished, but it is what he does differently that makes him standout out from almost every player in the world. I hope he signs and a new contract here. Frustrating person but fantastic player.
 
Damien said:
He calls Phil Jones "Jonah"?
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Giggs did that as well recently - I think after the away game in Germany he said something about it being easier to play at his age if you have someone like "Jonah" doing the running for him. Hearing it always reminds me of Rodney in Only Fools and Horses going on about Uncle Albert being bad luck, which obviously isn't the case with The Phil Jones.
 
I thought he was brilliant at the weekend, just as he has been for the majority of the season to be fair. Whenever we are on a bit of a downer he has a habit of keeping things together to a certain extent, and he has done that recently for me. We all know the problems we have in the middle, but it's great to have a player who has the confidence to get on the ball and attempt to control the game, and that is what he did on Saturday for me. With Rooney dropping deeper, the likes of Cleverley in particular have been relieved a bit of pressure, and have been allowed to express themselves a bit more than they would have done otherwise. He's been pivotal to us recently in my opinion.

I still prefer to see him playing off the front man where he can link up higher up the field, but also has the opportunity to drop into midfield and spread and dictate the game a bit more. As people have pointed out, he has a terrific range of passing wherever he plays, and if nothing else, you know you are going to get complete and utter commitment from him when he pulls on the shirt. His defensive positioning in particular would have to improve before he made the switch completely, but that can be taught and improved to a certain extent.

At the end of the day though, he was brilliant once again.
 
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