Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

Status
Not open for further replies.
Red Shorts said:
So can we put to bed this thing that Rooney has a poor touch and short pass? Saw so much of that shit being spouted this summer as for reasons to sell him. Oh if I only had the patience to go back into this thread 5 months ago and pick out the drivel people were saying about his abilities.
Click to expand...


I still maintain that his first touch is often sloppy as is his short passing, which is weird considering his long passing is truly world class.

He has improved his first touch and short passing, but compare it to a player like Kagawa whose first touch and short passing are sublime. Obviously, at this time Rooney is the better player, but it is clearly parts of his game he must work on to improve even further.

I still want to sell him as I just dislike him as a character, and him playing great doesn't change that fact - I'm in no way disputing that he's been our best player this season though. I also think he's far from irreplacable. Sell him, play Kagawa behind RVP and add a world class midfielder and our team might even improve.
 
Hectic said:
I'm still thinking he will go this season, it's worked out pretty much perfect for him so far and he now holds all the cards he didn't before.
Click to expand...

He may have better cards so far as his own form and value to the team, yet if there is not enough general improvement right across the squad the jackpot at the end could be less than it was last summer. If Moyes has plans for significant renewal of the playing staff in the near term can the club accord to offer Rooney a deal which meets his expectations.

I would doubt that there will be the same acrimony as during the summer of 2013 although the exit could still be where we're heading next summer.
 
Rossa said:
I still want to sell him as I just dislike him as a character, and him playing great doesn't change that fact - I'm in no way disputing that he's been our best player this season though. I also think he's far from irreplacable. Sell him, play Kagawa behind RVP and add a world class midfielder and our team might even improve.
Click to expand...



So there are still people thinking that Kagawa can do a better job in the #10 at United than Rooney? Let me highlight the words at United. Kagawa was incredible at Dortmund at #10, playing better football in that position than Rooney is now I'd say. But he's not got the confidence here to do half as well, and Rooney has outperformed him behind the striker on average. He's not irreplaceable until he retires, but at the moment we seriously cannot afford to lose him, so yes he is irreplaceable at the moment.
 
I think Rooney is waiting to see who we sign before he'd commit and who can blame him

Money isn't the issue so I'm not bothered about Chelsea's billions - for Rooney, even when misguided, the issues seem to be the players we're bringing in (2010 issue) his role in the team (2013 issue)

If this is to be his last contract I'm sure he wants to be playing in a team that is comptetive for all trophies and contending for the League and Champions League

I've been impressed by the way he has handled himself this year and you couldn't say he hasn't given his all for the team this year...

should we go out and buy more players on a par with the current squad he'll be on his way I think

Kagawa isn't at Rooney's level (of effectiveness for us anyway) so should Wayne go we'll need to replace another key player
 
Red Dreams said:
that's what I think too.
Click to expand...

We can only go on his past... people thinking he's worried about this and that ... The man wants to get a nice contract and know's he is playing particularly well right now so he has the power, even more so when the rest of our team are making him look even better.
 
Can't really blame him if he wants to leave if we don't make the top 4.

I think he'll be with us next season regardless though.
 
Red Shorts said:
So there are still people thinking that Kagawa can do a better job in the #10 at United than Rooney? Let me highlight the words at United. Kagawa was incredible at Dortmund at #10, playing better football in that position than Rooney is now I'd say. But he's not got the confidence here to do half as well, and Rooney has outperformed him behind the striker on average. He's not irreplaceable until he retires, but at the moment we seriously cannot afford to lose him, so yes he is irreplaceable at the moment.
Click to expand...


As you say, Kagawa has performed better than Rooney in the number ten position. I also agreed that Rooney is better at the moment, so I don't see us disagreeing here. Where I do disagree is that he is somehow irreplaceable - almost no players are. RVP as a striker is, for me, better than Rooney. In the number ten position, I still have hopes that Kagawa can replicate his form at Dortmund; if he can, and RVP can regain his form of last year, Rooney is far from being irreplaceable. We need to get someone in, preferably a world class midfielder, but if we do, he can leave for what I care.
 
Rossa said:
As you say, Kagawa has performed better than Rooney in the number ten position. I also agreed that Rooney is better at the moment, so I don't see us disagreeing here. Where I do disagree is that he is somehow irreplaceable - almost no players are. RVP as a striker is, for me, better than Rooney. In the number ten position, I still have hopes that Kagawa can replicate his form at Dortmund; if he can, and RVP can regain his form of last year, Rooney is far from being irreplaceable. We need to get someone in, preferably a world class midfielder, but if we do, he can leave for what I care.
Click to expand...

No he hasnt.
 
Kagawa hasn't performed better than Rooney in the #10 and even then I'd prefer Kagawa as our #10. The reason being Rooney being pushed anywhere else even at 80% of what he does in the #10 role is probably better than most anyone else in that same position on current form. Kagawa on the left is just not happening and overall I think Kagawa in a 10 and Rooney moving either up top, left or even in CM would give us a lot more as a team.

Anyway, I do wonder if based on Rooney's position of power, if Moyes has refrained from moving him around and making him unhappy. Based on the issues we've had with our more forward CM (Cleverley, Giggs etc) - till we can at least get some momentum back moving Rooney into CM might actually really help us out a lot. He is capable of dribbling the ball forward, he has that hunger to tackle and definitely is able to spray the ball around. Not that I want Rooney as the answer to our CM but, he could be in the short term.
 
Rooney has been fantastic for the past few months, but if he's really letting Stretford drive this agenda again, I'd be more than happy to see the back of him. I have to think the club are in a similar position to most of the fans - we've been jerked around enough. Let him go, or let him run down his contract. I certainly wouldn't offer him a raise given what he's on, what he's put us through and his age/fitness concerns.

If Chelsea want to take a gamble on a 29 year old Wayne Rooney and pay him 350k a week that's good for them. We shouldn't.
 
Rossa said:
Not for United, perhaps, but for Dortmund he was better as a number ten - not saying he's a better player, but imo he's better suited in that position.
Click to expand...

The team suits Rooney more than it suits Kagawa, that's the difference really.
 
Brophs said:
Tbh so would I, but the point I was making was that of all the potential reasons mentioned last summer for his possible departure, not being in the CL wasn't especially high up.
Click to expand...

IF Rooney is looking to leave, then not making top 4 will be all he needs to say "I'm out!". However, I feel like the club want to do everything to keep him.
 
As it stands, I'd say he's more likely to go.. really does depend on how we look post transfer window and our performances by the end of the season. All I know is letting him go in January would be suicidal.
 
Rossa said:
As you say, Kagawa has performed better than Rooney in the number ten position. I also agreed that Rooney is better at the moment, so I don't see us disagreeing here. Where I do disagree is that he is somehow irreplaceable - almost no players are. RVP as a striker is, for me, better than Rooney. In the number ten position, I still have hopes that Kagawa can replicate his form at Dortmund; if he can, and RVP can regain his form of last year, Rooney is far from being irreplaceable. We need to get someone in, preferably a world class midfielder, but if we do, he can leave for what I care.
Click to expand...

You are taking it too literally. I think RS post just means that it will be too high a price to try replacing him now. Taking him out in hope of Kagawa regaining his form is a gamble I don't want to take. I don't think Kagawa will be better even if he replaced Rooney. With useless wingers and non-exitant midfield, Kagawa will be hard pressed to do any creation on his own. Provided we strenghten the rest of the team then we can look at Kagawa replacing Rooney. Currently no.
 
It's more than strengthening the team though. Our tactics have to change imo. We're just too easy to play through. I dont see how adding Sneijder/Koke is going to solve our problems of "useless wingers"
 
Absolute Fruit Cake said:
You are taking it too literally. I think RS post just means that it will be too high a price to try replacing him now. Taking him out in hope of Kagawa regaining his form is a gamble I don't want to take. I don't think Kagawa will be better even if he replaced Rooney. With useless wingers and non-exitant midfield, Kagawa will be hard pressed to do any creation on his own. Provided we strenghten the rest of the team then we can look at Kagawa replacing Rooney. Currently no.
Click to expand...


Albeit with a different angle, I think you are saying what I'm saying. Selling Rooney would require us to buy a world class midfielder who can remove some of the defensive duties of the number ten. Also, we should probably be looking at a world class winger to improve further. However, I still feel that with an attacking four of RVP, Kagawa and Januzaj Nani on the wings is a fairly good attacking force.
 
Gladiator said:
It's more than strengthening the team though. Our tactics have to change imo. We're just too easy to play through. I dont see how adding Sneijder/Koke is going to solve our problems of "useless wingers"
Click to expand...

I would say strengthtening is more important than formation/tactics. We need players who can adapt to differing tactics and still perform. Once we get them on board then Moyes can tailor his tactics to fit the opposition. Without players any formation would be useless.
 
Absolute Fruit Cake said:
I would say strengthtening is more important than formation/tactics. We need players who can adapt to differing tactics and still perform. Once we get them on board then Moyes can tailor his tactics to fit the opposition. Without players any formation would be useless.
Click to expand...

Good point. When i talk about tactics i'm not really talk about formations. I'm talking about our patterns of play, how we transition offensively and defensively, how we exploit spaces, where we look to hurt the opposition, all the things that play a part in the overall strategy of a team.

I'm saying this because we've played something like a modern 4-4-2 against Swansea and won 4-1 with Welbeck, Rooney, van Persie, and Valencia as our front 4. 5-0 against a leverkusen who gave us way too much space. Then we struggle against the likes of West Brom, Newcastle, Everton, Cardiff with a similar formation but a different set of players each time. In the newcastle game alone, none of the substitutions we made really had much of an impact on the game let alone the team's performance. In a lot of our performances we've struggled to break on the counterattack effectively. Struggled to keep the tempo up. Struggled to get the balance right in midfield. Struggled to link play through the middle. Struggled to defend/attack as a team.

That's where I'm coming from. If we can't get a lift just by switching players around then perhaps are deeply-rooted issues which for me, wont be solved by just strengthening. Strengthening might paper over the cracks or it may bring all the pieces in whatever style we're trying to implement together. I couldn tell ya. Just saying strengthening is only half of it imo.
 
Absolute Fruit Cake said:
You are taking it too literally. I think RS post just means that it will be too high a price to try replacing him now. Taking him out in hope of Kagawa regaining his form is a gamble I don't want to take. I don't think Kagawa will be better even if he replaced Rooney. With useless wingers and non-exitant midfield, Kagawa will be hard pressed to do any creation on his own. Provided we strenghten the rest of the team then we can look at Kagawa replacing Rooney. Currently no.
Click to expand...


Nail on head, glad someone else saw my angle.
 
"We all have to step up," he said. "It hasn't been good enough of late and we all have to come forward and show why we were champions last year and do better. We have a good run of games now and hopefully we can do that"

"It's not about me, it's about the team. If the team isn't doing well then my form is not important - we have to do well as a team and roll our sleeves up and really pull ourselves together," he added.
Click to expand...

Selfish, let's sell him.


Seriously. Give him a new contract and the captaincy.
 
Irwhine said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that an interview with a journo who made up a Rooney story? What a load of shite.
Click to expand...


Lipton is the one who was squirming on Chelsea TV when the presenter called him up on his bullshit stories in the papers. He doesn't know anything.
 
Way too deep to get the best out of him imo but if it benefits the team I'm all for it. Some excellent passes:drool:
 
I think his dropping back into a deeper position really helped out Cleverley and Giggs today. Gave them another option, and his passing to Valencia was excellent. Him dropping deep works well with Welbeck up front as well, as he can dink balls over the defense for Welbeck to chase onto.
 
That was exactly what I've been wanting for now - Rooney from that deep gives so much. At least for now hope we stick with it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.