Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

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Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Both LR7 and MoneyMay have gone into some depth in explaining the problems we are facing at present, have you not seen their posts?
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They basically imply that Rooney is to blame for our midfield because he's playing in his position, which is ridiculous.

He played in midfield last season, and he was shit, and everyone wanted us to sell him...including him.

Curiously last time I was in this thread I was being chastised for trying to claim he was being asked to play deeper last season, because apparently according to the resident caf experts, this was a lie told by Rooney to justify his actions...It's all over the place in here. People are literally just making stuff up as they go along so they can blame it on him
 
shaggy said:
Why because you have a different opinion? He wasn't particular great against City at all, just scored a brilliant goal at the end and was the best of a dreadful bunch.
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I'm still not getting the whole 'i'm moaning my tits off re-writing history for no reason other than to have a big moan it's not cause I'm being a twat it's cause we differ in opinion' shtick. It's not the first time it's been said either. It's almost as bizarre as the whole 'you're naive for not believing made up paper bullshit' and look where that got everyone.
noodlehair said:
It's all over the place in here. People are literally just making stuff up as they go along so they can blame it on him
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That ladies and gentlemen is the god darn truth.
 
Weird situation this. For years everyone has been criticising (rightfully) our shit midfield and predictably, pathetic, aimless zombie passing in those areas. However now it seems like we apparently never had those problems under SAF, they've only surfaced under Moyes, and our entire lack of midfield ability going forward is down to one of our strikers.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
Weird situation this. For years everyone has been criticising (rightfully) our shit midfield and predictably, pathetic, aimless zombie passing in those areas. However now it seems like we apparently never had those problems under SAF, they've only surfaced under Moyes, and our entire lack of midfield ability going forward is down to one of our strikers.
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Who apparently was never asked to play deeper or in midfield anyway...he just pretended he was to justify asking to leave.

He's caused Machester United's midfield to become rubbish by not pretending to be playing closer to it anymore, or something.
 
Sir A1ex said:
So how is he to blame for our woes? He's playing the role given to him very well, bar the last couple of matches.
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He's not to blame for our woes. But I would prefer someone else as our number 10.

And I wouldn't say he's playing very well. He had a couple of good performances and a couple where one was overrated due to some other players playing much worse than him and another where we expected him to be dogshit but he did decently.
 
Either play him as the lone striker, on the left or not at all. Don't want to see this 2 striker bullshit anymore. feck this 4-4-2 dinosaur formation just because the fecker doesnt want to play deeper.
 
Would him playing deeper on Saturday (and I'm not sure how much deeper you're expecting him to play since he spent much of the first half sodding around with the ball on the edge of his own box), suddenly have made Fellaini more capable of actually playing a pass to a team mate?

Was it his positioning against West Brom and Liverpool that enabled Rio Ferdinand to play like a clown?
 
ghaliboy said:
I'm still not getting the whole 'i'm moaning my tits off re-writing history for no reason other than to have a big moan it's not cause I'm being a twat it's cause we differ in opinion' shtick. It's not the first time it's been said either. It's almost as bizarre as the whole 'you're naive for not believing made up paper bullshit' and look where that got everyone.That ladies and gentlemen is the god darn truth.
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what the feck?
 
noodlehair said:
Would him playing deeper on Saturday (and I'm not sure how much deeper you're expecting him to play since he spent much of the first half sodding around with the ball on the edge of his own box), suddenly have made Fellaini more capable of actually playing a pass to a team mate?
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It's not only that he was mouthing off because of not wanting to play there but also that I don't think he is very good in a deeper role. So, play him up front, on the left or not at all. If he's not fine with that he can feck off.

But you are right Fellaini beeing a useless toilet brush has not much to do with Rooney, but I'm not sure how that's very relevant. I want to see Kagawa in the number 10 role for some time now. Not because he has been so impressive there, but because others have been neither and he deserves chances.
 
Godfather said:
It's not only that he was mouthing off because of not wanting to play there but also that I don't think he is very good in a deeper role. So, play him up front, on the left or not at all. If he's not fine with that he can feck off.

But you are right Fellaini beeing a useless toilet brush has not much to do with Rooney, but I'm not sure how that's very relevant. I want to see Kagawa in the number 10 role for some time now. Not because he has been so impressive there, but because others have been neither and he deserves chances.
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Rooney's been one of Manchester United's best players in that role for many years, allowing us to win many trophies and generally be among the most succesful teams on the planet. Van Persie is also quite good.

I would suggest the problems with current form most probably lie elsewhere.

I'd like to see Kagawa play more but when he has been in the team he's done nothing to convince anyone who's not sure that he'd be worth a gamble there.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
He's not to blame for our woes. But I would prefer someone else as our number 10.
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Fair enough, you're singing from a different hymn sheet to these guys...

LR7 said:
Do the people who say 'the problem is not Rooney it's the midfield' not see that the two are directly connected?
Rooney selfishly playing so high (pretty much as high as RvP) means that the two central midfielders are cut off from the two centre forwards. That leaves them more susceptible to being overrun.
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MoneyMay said:
From a footballing point of view, Rooney is to blame partially for our attacks lacking fluidity. You seem to have ignored that he's essentially pressured Moyes into playing him further ahead, next to Van Persie, almost in the style of a centre-forward.
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noodlehair said:
Rooney's been one of Manchester United's best players in that role for many years, allowing us to win many trophies and generally be among the most succesful teams on the planet. Van Persie is also quite good.

I would suggest the problems with current form most probably lie elsewhere.

I'd like to see Kagawa play more but when he has been in the team he's done nothing to convince anyone who's not sure that he'd be worth a gamble there.
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I don't think he's the perfect fit for that role. Not in the last few seasons and obviously doesnt seem to want to play there neither judging from his own comments. Kagawa actually has done more than fine in many games for us. It's a myth that he's a fecking gamble there or never done anyhitng to convince anyone to deserve chances there.
Rooney's been underwhelming the last couple of games and I'm not sure the partnership with RvP is as good as it should be. Let others try their luck, especially a guy like Kagawa.

And if you've watched United closely this season you must have realised that Rooney's actually been playing further up front than usually which makes the whole discussion a bit needless whether or not you think he's a great number 10 or not when he's much more playing like a second striker this season and I don't really like seeing that.
 
Godfather said:
And if you've watched United closely this season you must have realised that Rooney's actually been playing further up front than usually which makes the whole discussion a bit needless whether or not you think he's a great number 10 or not when he's much more playing like a second striker this season and I don't really like seeing that.
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Moyes is not only managing players and systems, he's managing the ego's from the post SAF leaving fallout. You don't just come in and stripe off a bunch of influential players and hope everything goes ok.

Rooney has been playing extremely deep so I am not really sure what you're going on about there. MoneyMay posted a compilation a dozen or so pages back which highlighted that. Except for when RVP was out he played up front.
 
He will leave in the summer anyway, we just needed to make a point just like Ronaldo. He'll go and I will not give a damn about Wayne Rooney leaving Manchester United.
 
ghaliboy said:
Moyes is not only managing players and systems, he's managing the ego's from the post SAF leaving fallout. You don't just come in and stripe off a bunch of influential players and hope everything goes ok.

Rooney has been playing extremely deep so I am not really sure what you're going on about there. MoneyMay posted a compilation a dozen or so pages back which highlighted that. Except for when RVP was out he played up front.
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Oh you can stripe off players very well, especially ones that asked to leave twice and mouth off publically about their role in the team. Of course you have to get in great replacements but I'm not going to talk about Moyes in the Rooney thread, there's enough of other threads for that.

Where I agree with Noodles is that the main problem remains CM. Can't really expect wonders from your number 10 when you have static feckers like Carrick and Fellaini behind him. (Not a dig at Carrick but I'm not sure Fellaini and him should be starting together). Doesnt change the fact I'd like to see Kagawa given a try as Rooney's been a bit dire the last games.

When you watch Dortmund play their whole centre is constantly on the move. I really love their fast paced football. Our off the ball movement is wank and Fellaini technically inept.
 
Godfather said:
I don't think he's the perfect fit for that role. Not in the last few seasons and obviously doesnt seem to want to play there neither judging from his own comments. Kagawa actually has done more than fine in many games for us. It's a myth that he's a fecking gamble there or never done anyhitng to convince anyone to deserve chances there.
Rooney's been underwhelming the last couple of games and I'm not sure the partnership with RvP is as good as it should be. Let others try their luck, especially a guy like Kagawa.

And if you've watched United closely this season you must have realised that Rooney's actually been playing further up front than usually which makes the whole discussion a bit needless whether or not you think he's a great number 10 or not when he's much more playing like a second striker this season and I don't really like seeing that.
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He's happy playing as a second striker I think. Last season he was playing off the midfield more than he was the attack, and a number of times was just in midfield. It was a noticably deeper role than he'd been asked to play in the previous seasons and he looked uninterested in fulfilling it.

Kagawa hasn't done "more than fine" all that often at all. I think he's been decent in some games, but even then the general consensus from fans tended to be less complementary than mine. He hasn't done anything to suggest he's worth dropping or shunting Rooney around for.

Rooney's been playing further up, but he's still playing off Van Persie. One of the big frustrations of last season was seeing us lump balls into the bx for Van Persie to try and win on his own against 3 or 4 defenders, so it's not the dumbest thing to try. Both also have a good goal return this season.

The games we've played worst in, it's been our defence and defensive/base midfield play that's been awful. We've had horrible problems with playing the ball out from the back and winning back possession before it's inside our penalty area, as well as basic duties like marking the only opposition player in the box. You can play Rooney as deep as you like, he's not going to help any of these things. Neither will playing Kagawa instead of him, regardless of how well Kagawa might play. Also, two of our worst performances involved Rooney and Van Persie not playing together anyway. While our better performances have been with them both on the pitch.
 
ghaliboy said:
Moyes is not only managing players and systems, he's managing the ego's from the post SAF leaving fallout. You don't just come in and stripe off a bunch of influential players and hope everything goes ok.

Rooney has been playing extremely deep so I am not really sure what you're going on about there. MoneyMay posted a compilation a dozen or so pages back which highlighted that. Except for when RVP was out he played up front.
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He certainly hasn't been playing 'extremely deep'

see MoneyMay's latest breakdown in the Tactics thread: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/david-moyes-the-tactician.373998/page-6#post-14394173
 
Godfather said:
Oh you can stripe off players very well, especially ones that asked to leave twice and mouth off publically about their role in the team. Of course you have to get in great replacements but I'm not going to talk about Moyes in the Rooney thread, there's enough of other threads for that.

Where I agree with Noodles is that the main problem remains CM. Can't really expect wonders from your number 10 when you have static feckers like Carrick and Fellaini behind him. (Not a dig at Carrick but I'm not sure Fellaini and him should be starting together). Doesnt change the fact I'd like to see Kagawa given a try as Rooney's been a bit dire the last games.

When you watch Dortmund play their whole centre is constantly on the move. I really love their fast paced football. Our off the ball movement is wank and Fellaini technically inept.
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Like you said when Dortmund play their whole center is constantly on the move, Rooney is one of our few players that is constantly on the move all over the pitch, its Carrick that never moves with the ball and practically spends 90 minutes in one part of the pitch yet somehow again Rooney gets the blame.
 
noodlehair said:
He's happy playing as a second striker I think. Last season he was playing off the midfield more than he was the attack, and a number of times was just in midfield. It was a noticably deeper role than he'd been asked to play in the previous seasons and he looked uninterested in fulfilling it.

Kagawa hasn't done "more than fine" all that often at all. I think he's been decent in some games, but even then the general consensus from fans tended to be less complementary than mine. He hasn't done anything to suggest he's worth dropping or shunting Rooney around for.

Rooney's been playing further up, but he's still playing off Van Persie. One of the big frustrations of last season was seeing us lump balls into the bx for Van Persie to try and win on his own against 3 or 4 defenders, so it's not the dumbest thing to try. Both also have a good goal return this season.

The games we've played worst in, it's been our defence and defensive/base midfield play that's been awful. We've had horrible problems with playing the ball out from the back and winning back possession before it's inside our penalty area, as well as basic duties like marking the only opposition player in the box. You can play Rooney as deep as you like, he's not going to help any of these things. Neither will playing Kagawa instead of him, regardless of how well Kagawa might play. Also, two of our worst performances involved Rooney and Van Persie not playing together anyway. While our better performances have been with them both on the pitch.
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Not much to disagree with there and as I've posted, of course our main problem is CM. I still think that trying to play Kagawa as the number 10 maybe Rooney up top with Adam and Nani on the flanks would be worth a try. Put Clev instead of Fellaini into the side and we should have a line up that is able to keep the ball and play it quick out of defence and midfield. Or try and play Rooney on the left with Persie up front. Not sure, I think it would be worth a try. When Kagawa fecks up then fine enough he should be dropped bit looking at the current season there's so much room for improvement in every aspect of our game I'm not sure why we shouldn't give it a try especially as Rooney and RVP haven't looked the best lately.
What I certainly hope that we finally sort out our CM issue and after that try and implement some sort of pressing game and stop sit so deep, but that's a totally different matter
 
LR7 said:
He certainly hasn't been playing 'extremely deep'

see MoneyMay's latest breakdown in the Tactics thread: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/david-moyes-the-tactician.373998/page-6#post-14394173
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Rooney has been dropping deep to get the ball no matter what Moneymays glowing blobs show. And why is he being compared to Ozi? We are playing a 442 and Ozil is playing in a 451 formation.

Nobody expected York or Cole to drop deep, or Sheringham or Soljkaer or any of our other strikers when we played 442 in the past it was the midfields job to get the ball forward, he should just stay up front score goals and put pressure on defences and instead let our midfield do what its supposed to do.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Like you said when Dortmund play their whole center is constantly on the move, Rooney is one of our few players that is constantly on the move all over the pitch, its Carrick that never moves with the ball and practically spends 90 minutes in one part of the pitch yet somehow again Rooney gets the blame.
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Yeah but Rooney on the other hand is a guy that can be blamed for being prone to concede possession in very dangerous areas. Which wouldn't be as much of a problem if we played him further up front. But not with a second striker. But you are right he's off the ball movement is good. And I agree Carrick's and Fellaini's really isn't.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Rooney has been dropping deep to get the ball no matter what Moneymays glowing blobs show. And why is he being compared to Ozi? We are playing a 442 and Ozil is playing in a 451 formation.

Nobody expected York or Cole to drop deep, or Sheringham or Soljkaer or any of our other strikers when we played 442 in the past it was the midfields job to get the ball forward, he should just stay up front score goals and put pressure on defences and instead let our midfield do what its supposed to do.
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Our midfield is hardly strong enough to play two out and out strikers high up the pitch. There isn't a Keane and Scholes anchoring us now. I can show you some blobs that are less bright if you have a problem with those ones.
 
LR7 said:
Our midfield is hardly strong enough to play two out and out strikers high up the pitch. There isn't a Keane and Scholes anchoring us now. I can show you some blobs that are less bright if you have a problem with those ones.
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Well that's not Rooney's fault just as it isn't RVP's or any other strikers fault, Rooney is not a midfielder, and its not due to any injury crisis either, we had a whole summer to sort that out yet he we are blaming who? Rooney..
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Well that's not Rooney's fault just as it isn't RVP's or any other strikers fault, Rooney is not a midfielder, and its not due to any injury crisis either, we had a whole summer to sort that out yet he we are blaming who? Rooney..
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Rooney has previously played that position differently, sometimes dropping too deep to collect the ball that his influence up front was somewhat nullified. No one is expecting him to drop into a midfield two like he did at times last season. It's that space in behind Robin that is vacant at times which the number 10 usually drops into bridging the gap between the CMs and the striker, giving them an outlet and not leaving them so isolated.
 
Godfather said:
Oh you can stripe off players very well, especially ones that asked to leave twice and mouth off publically about their role in the team. Of course you have to get in great replacements but I'm not going to talk about Moyes in the Rooney thread, there's enough of other threads for that.
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Judging by the summers events and the eventual retention of Rooney... No you can't. Hypothetically from the arm chair you can (on paper with no consequences) but again, this is just a silly notion from the fans who think they know it all above managers who have been managing for years.

There is no point really talking about Moyes. He made the decision and he's been good enough to hold down a spot in our team so I think it's best to just suck it up and let it unfold. None of us can change the way it goes. But it would serve better to curb the handbag personal feelings over Rooney. It'll make you feel a lot better if you just ignore all the pointless shite that goes along with having him in the team.
LR7 said:
He certainly hasn't been playing 'extremely deep'
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I was going to reply soon in that thread but the heatmap is boggling my mind.. Rarely is he on the ball even close to the box there...... Which leads my to my original point. "He's playing extremely deep". I am really struggling to see how you can say otherwise.

pfkk.png

In fact there are no touches/movements/positioning anywhere near the box. Again I ask.. How on earth is that not a representation of Rooney playing extremely deep...? I am genuinely not understanding that at all.


edit: Okay I may be an idiot :lol: Running right to left I assume? I don't know why I thought it was running left to right. Actually I know why because there are more touches on Ozil's sheet in defense.

So fair play I concede that.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Rooney has been dropping deep to get the ball no matter what Moneymays glowing blobs show. And why is he being compared to Ozi? We are playing a 442 and Ozil is playing in a 451 formation.

Nobody expected York or Cole to drop deep, or Sheringham or Soljkaer or any of our other strikers when we played 442 in the past it was the midfields job to get the ball forward, he should just stay up front score goals and put pressure on defences and instead let our midfield do what its supposed to do.
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Yorke dropped off just as much as Rooney this season :wenger: Rooney is the 3rd most offside player this season, was the 1st in the whole league a few weeks ago. He's clearly playing far further forward, that doesn't mean he hasnt dropped back now and again to get on the ball
 
Ekeke said:
Yorke dropped off just as much as Rooney this season :wenger: Rooney is the 3rd most offside player this season, was the 1st in the whole league a few weeks ago. He's clearly playing far further forward, that doesn't mean he hasnt dropped back now and again to get on the ball
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But but but... It could mean his runs from deep are winding up so slowly that when the ball is played he's offside a lot? :lol:.
 
Godfather said:
Not much to disagree with there and as I've posted, of course our main problem is CM. I still think that trying to play Kagawa as the number 10 maybe Rooney up top with Adam and Nani on the flanks would be worth a try. Put Clev instead of Fellaini into the side and we should have a line up that is able to keep the ball and play it quick out of defence and midfield. Or try and play Rooney on the left with Persie up front. Not sure, I think it would be worth a try. When Kagawa fecks up then fine enough he should be dropped bit looking at the current season there's so much room for improvement in every aspect of our game I'm not sure why we shouldn't give it a try especially as Rooney and RVP haven't looked the best lately.
What I certainly hope that we finally sort out our CM issue and after that try and implement some sort of pressing game and stop sit so deep, but that's a totally different matter
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Kagawa's frustrating for me because I rate him a lot as a player, but when he does play, he just doesn't do enough to force himself into the side for the following game. He's too talented to sit around on the bench but when I look at the team and try to figure out who he can play instead of, it's not obvious really. Even if you stick him in behind the striker, you have to move Van Persie or Rooney, or drop one of them. He can play from wide and I don't think has done badly when doing so, but then you sacrifice width, plus Janujaz and Nani have done more to justify being there at the moment. Then you have Valencia and Zaha who are more natural wingers and can't get a game...Ashley Young also needs to be played from time to time otherwise we lack the ability to cross the ball directly off the pitch for a goal kick.

The only other place you can stick him is next to Carrick, which I would be tempted to try but there's a chance it could result in us losing about 8-0.

If it did come to playing one of Rooney or RVP up top I'm gessing it would be RVP because he's a lot better with his back to goal and at playing off the opposition centrebacks...but I don't really think there's a problem playing both of them with Rooney off Van Persie. In certain games maybe not but for others it's fine.

I really want us to press more as well, and play with a higher tempo (the tempo we try to play at is pathetic, to be honest). I was hoping Moyes would bring that since Everton were very good at it, but it may take time to implement, and I dont think Carrick likes pressing because he's scared of being caught ahead of the ball...he's been a mainstay in our midfield that long now that the team has kind of adapted around this and it'd be hard to just change.
 
What some of you seem to be missing, is that it is not a question of how good Rooney was personally [for all of 3 or at the most 4 matches] but rather are his ambitions and current use the best thing for the team?

Are the effects of him playing higher up the pitch and bearing less of the burden in central areas more beneficial or costly?

Wayne may or may not share some culpability for where he is playing, however going by his words and Fergie's it is in line with his demands. We're not about to see the player walk up to Moyes and ask to play a more selfless role.

Admittedly the central midfield requires some attention although where we are now is only exacerbating that pre-existing vulnerability. If Rooney is no longer willing to do what is best for the team then we have more than capable replacements willing to play for their chance as regulars.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
What some of you seem to be missing, is that it is not a question of how good Rooney was personally [for all of 3 or at the most 4 matches] but rather are his ambitions and current use the best thing for the team?

Are the effects of him playing higher up the pitch and bearing less of the burden in central areas more beneficial or costly?

Wayme may or may not share some culpability for where he is playing, however going by his words and Fergie's it is in line with his demands. We're not about to see the player walk up to Moyes and ask to play a more selfless role.

Admittedly the central midfield requires some attention although where we are now is only exacerbating that pre-existing vulnerability. If Rooney is no longer willing to do what is best for the team then we have more than capable replacements willing to play for their chance as regulars.
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Yeah, but again, all of the problems we have in midfield this season, we had last season just the same. They wont go away by playing Rooney deeper or not playing him...all that will happen is Rooney will leave and then we'll still have to try and sort out the midfield anyway.

It's a feeble scapegoat excuse for our poor results, designed so that people can blame them on Rooney. Rooney's positioning didn't cause Rio Ferdinand or Ashley Young to consistently fail to play to a basic competent level. Rooney's positioning didn't cause our defence to keep trying to play out from the back at a slower tempo than any other team on earth.

Our two worst performances have been at Anfield and the Etihad...Rooney didn't play in one and didn't play with Van Persie in the other, so whatever's going on it's pretty clear it's not a product of Wayne Rooney not wanting to play in a position he's rubbish in anyway, and which he never played in to begin with until last season. I would say it's a lot more to do with just a general continuation of our lacklustre performances from last season (particularly towards the end), and other teams not being so forgiving when it comes to punishing them this season.
 
Is Rooney playing further up top harming the side? Yes, but it's Moyes who has deployed him there.

Now, is that just to keep Rooney happy? More than likely, yes.

Here's a question for you all though? If you knew we had Rooney's loyalty and happiness if he were to be played further up top, would you sacrifice the older van Persie? As to facilitate Kagawa?
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
What some of you seem to be missing, is that it is not a question of how good Rooney was personally [for all of 3 or at the most 4 matches] but rather are his ambitions and current use the best thing for the team?

Are the effects of him playing higher up the pitch and bearing less of the burden in central areas more beneficial or costly?

Wayme may or may not share some culpability for where he is playing, however going by his words and Fergie's it is in line with his demands. We're not about to see the player walk up to Moyes and ask to play a more selfless role.

Admittedly the central midfield requires some attention although where we are now is only exacerbating that pre-existing vulnerability. If Rooney is no longer willing to do what is best for the team then we have more than capable replacements willing to play for their chance as regulars.
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I don't strongly disagree with any of this. But there are a few things to keep in mind. Firstly, he is still here. He won't be going anywhere until June. So what his ambitions and/or attitude are may be relevant if we're talking about extending his contract - but not really when it comes to using him here and now on the pitch.

Secondly his detrimental influence, not being a proper No10 in a system that would normally benefit from having one, will be tremendously overplayed whenever he has a poor match. Not least when his poor performance coincides with a generally poor team effort - and an absolute stinker in the CM department.

He doesn't play alongside RVP in this new "selfish" role of his - that's a great exaggeration. He still operates more or less in the room occupied by a conventional playmaking No10 - albeit clearly in a different role as such. Whether this works or not depends on several factors besides Rooney himself. And whether it's a great disadvantage to field a player in the "Rooney role" compared to a player in the "No10" role may be debated - given that we clearly do not play as you normally would in a 4-2-3-1 formation. We look great when we are able to counter attack, for instance. But we look stagnant and lost for ideas when we have to build up play from scratch. Whether a conventional No10 would be any better when we enter zombie mode is not evident to me. The lack of movement we often see wouldn't give, say, Kagawa a great deal to work with. And Rooney, whatever else he may be, is a greater goal threat than Kagawa.

I think we should alter our approach - obviously. But right here and now I don't think anything would be magically solved by replacing Rooney with someone like Kagawa.

What Moyes should do, though, everything else notwithstanding - is to drop Rooney or sub him off early when he isn't on song. Same goes for RVP. I see nothing wrong in trying to play Kagawa in the hole and Rooney up front, for instance.
 
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