Good Lord, I've got my doubts about Moyes tenure, but you lot are like the tabloids with your ridiculous sensationalism. Being told by his players where they will and won't play... right.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
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Good Lord, I've got my doubts about Moyes tenure, but you lot are like the tabloids with your ridiculous sensationalism. Being told by his players where they will and won't play... right.
This thread is just making my head hurt now... the rest of your post reads like you mean it (and I fully agree with the 2nd paragraph), but this part is somehow ironic, right?
Right???
Its not a position map. Its an average position map. And whoscored doesn't have one. They have their best guess at the lineup. Its just their idea of what the lineup is, whereas average position dots down every position a player takes up over the game and finds the average.
Team >>> One player being "the best"
Obviously, but that doesn't mean your best player is the problem.
Umm yeah, I figured that out all on my own. And Whoscored do have one.
He really, really hasn't though.
Of course he has. Rooney has had several matches in which he's been excellent, albeit maybe not in the last couple. RVP hasn't been as bad as some people are saying, but he's yet to hit anything like his best form.
Rooney was shockingly bad.
Have we really got to the stage where we can only say he was great or awful. People need to realise it's a gme of football, sometimes you have off days. We don't kick our players to the curb when they don't have a blinder.
People are not asking for that are they? There is a wish for him to serve the team as well as his own ambition to be sure, and for three consecutive performances of a low standard to be recognised.
Over the summer there was much debate concerning Rooney's general play how present standards contrast with those of previous seasons, for some the arguments remain and the historical comparison is not a favourable one to the player.
Whilst yes a case can be made regarding the share of culpability between Wayne and Moyes, the player of a few years ago would never need to be told to help out his midfield as he ought.
August through early September saw set-piee accuracy and work rate, welcome sights though these may have been neither were the justification for the plaudits received nor continued faith of the manager since. You speak of player being kicked the curb and this being wrong, yet Rooney's position being sacrosanct is forcing that very condition upon other forwards, and those who could have been of some help.
Rooney's self-confessed selfishness is harming the team imo.
We are basically having to play with two out and out centre forwards. Take Giggs out of that picture above and it's so fecking obvious that the distance between Carrick-Fellaini and Rooney and Robin is far far too big.
Rooney should be operating in that space in behind, linking the play between the midfield and the striker, when for his own selfish reasons he's playing pretty much as high up as Robin. It's hardly like we have an impenetrable midfield behind the strikers who are solid and don't need any support. It's quite the opposite, our midfield is susceptible to being overrun and Rooney isn't willing to drop enough. It's so frustrating to watch.
Rooney is basically dictating where he will and won't play which isn't fair on Moyes. We can't change the team shape because we have to play two strikers. When Moyes took Rooney off we switched to a 4-3-3, he can't do that with Rooney on the pitch because he would probably throw a tantrum if he had to play on the wing.
His first touch yesterday was horrific and I thought he should have been subbed off earlier than he was but I'm sure Moyes doesn't want to risk upsetting him.
Rubbish. Fellaini was next to useless and apart from a couple of long passes, Carrick was hard pressed stopping opponents from overrunning us in the area. Unless you expect Rooney to replace Fellaini, there is no way your proposed 'support' can be any good. A little more deeper and he will be a midfielder and not a 'link'. Look at how deep RvP plays. The only route out of defence was through Nani/Januzaj and a couple of Carrick long balls) and that's it. He is a striker playing in a No.10 position for the match. Are you expecting him to play 2 positions at the same time?
Midfield is shite, but it is Rooney's problem. we are not scoring enough and it is Rooney's problem. Irrational hatred, I say!
I don't think it's rubbish at all. Both Rooney's and van Persie's relatively deep average position against Southampton probably has something to do with them trying, in vain, to get involved in a game where we had no foothold.
The most interesting aspect of that graphic is the near identical position of Fellaini and Carrick. Neither of them bridges the gap between midfield and attack.
Give Rooney tactical instructions to play as a no. 10 and replace Fellaini with Cleverley, and we'll see a more cohesive unit.
I spent the majority of summer arguing in this very thread that we should keep him, and I was in the minority with that view.
Very few teams in Europe play with two strikers up top these days, partly because the onus is on winning the midfield battle by having more bodies in midfield to help control the game. It's common knowledge that we don't have a strong midfield so it's more important for the number 10 to drop and offer an outlet to the CMs but Rooney is mostly as high up as RvP.
It's also pretty much impossible to change our formation with Rooney on the pitch given that he wants to play as a striker and if Moyes wanted to play 3 in the middle for example, he would have to shift Rooney to the wing or play him in midfield. Rooney stated himself the other day that: "I'm not saying I wouldn't [go into midfield] for instance if it was the last 10 to 15 minutes of a game, if we were holding on a bit and I got asked to drop to the left, or drop back, to help see out the game".
So that leaves Moyes hands tied a fair bit. It's unsurprising that the two times Moyes had shifted us to different formations (4-3-3 and 4-1-4-1) were when Rooney wasn't on the pitch.
Rooney said he had to be more selfish, and he is, and it's affecting the team as a whole.
Still wish we'd sold him
Bench him for the rest of the season Moysey! Only play players who are 100% committed to the Manchester United cause, rather than their own personal glory/wages.
Would he play the No. 10 role for Barca/Madrid/Bayern? Would he feck
Bench him for the rest of the season Moysey! Only play players who are 100% committed to the Manchester United cause, rather than their own personal glory/wages.
Would he play the No. 10 role for Barca/Madrid/Bayern? Would he feck
He's been our best performer this season.
Not that that says much.
Not that that says much.
I wonder how much longer this is going to carry on for, he could be shite for another 2 months and people will still be throwing this line out in January.
Could be days, could be weeks, could be years. Rest assured.. The sun will rise tomorrow.
Sorry, but what about that is selfish? Considering he's said he'll perform different roles if needed? Genuinely curious.
Moyes loves him doesn't he. His game against Leverkusen was one of his best performances in a Utd shirt, but that is all. His last couple of games for us were terrible. Needs to improve drastically and combine better with RvP.
He'll be gone in the summer anyway, so I hope he just behaves professionally during the course of the season.
He'll be gone in the summer anyway, so I hope he just behaves professionally during the course of the season.
It's true though, you could argue maybe De Gea. That's not to say Rooney's been consistently brilliant or even performing at his best, it's just to say he's been better than the rest of our under-performing squad and that he's looked more interested and threatening than he did last year.
No they'll say it when Wayne goes through one of his good patches. It's pretty funny that when he goes through one of his good spells people are quick to label him our best player, one of the best in the world, irreplaceable, our heart beat etc and then when he goes through a bad spell the exact opposite happens and he's shit and useless. I can't think of any other top player like this. Sure every player has bad days but not to the extent Rooney does where he struggles to complete the most basic of things on the pitch. His performance against Leverkusen is the exception not the norm. He very rarely plays like that these days, which is a shame as for all his talent he should be playing like that regularly. But there's just little point praising him to the high heavens when it's completely inevitable he won't maintain it. Against City his all-round game was generally rubbish yet he scores an outrageous free kick. His form is an absolute mystery.
It's true though.
I don't like Rooney. I don't think he's been amazing. But I do think he's been out best performer this season.
There is even less point flying off the handle and trying to rewrite history in order to have a negative moan.
He has been brilliant this season up until the last three games where he has had a dip. He managed two superb games for England in between this dip of form. Van Persie who was also in form for his country has struggled for form with us this season. The problem isn't our strikers (we have two of the best), our problem is supplying them and giving them an actual platform. Our central midfield is too immobile and in Fellaini we have purchased an immobile midfielder who cannot even weight a pass for 27.5m. Our striker's form is being questioned but there's other issues that really should be questioned instead. Imagine Rooney and Van Persie with a platform and better service.
We can't just keep relying on him or Van Persie. The rest of the team needs to step up and take some responsibility. Whether they're capable is another issue.
I'd say Carrick and Vidic have been just as good as Rooney
Think everyone knows that, but they're not exactly what you'd call match winners. Everyone looks to Rooney and RVP to score goals and win us games but that becomes quite difficult when the team in general is lacking in creativity and a general spark.
Stick Rooney in that Arsenal side the last couple of weeks and he would be on fire.
Vidic is a match winner and who cares? performances matter
Yes, they do, and for the most part this season Rooney's have been very good. Much better most of our squad.
The point re Arsenal just shows that the problem isn't Rooney, it's our team. Rooney has been playing well in spite of most of our other players not because of them.
In the "Rooney hasn't been all that great" kind of line of thinking? Or genuinely speaking? Carrick has had his usual poor/slow start to the season and has not been up there at all.
In the Rooney was really good, but his last couple of hours for us havent been at all. And Overall Vidic and Carrick have been more consistant and end up the same, kind of way
I dont think Arsenal would have done as well with Rooney as their 10 instead of Ozil. Rooney would have scored but less goals going around in all. Thats where the problem has been compared to last season's Rooney. He's scoring but not creating as much.
Completely disagree. But thanks for clarifying.
edit: Re-read that and though it sounded a bit cnuty, but was speaking genuinely, was just curious.
Rooney did spend much time deeper than a normal No.10, didn't he? He may have aid that, but I do recall him being more in the middle that actually forward in the match.
This. I agree. People just assume that the midfield cannot be fixed and RvP is beyond blame, so Rooney has to be blamed for the whole thing.
As long as it is true, I don't see any reason it can't continue!
Why because you have a different opinion? He wasn't particular great against City at all, just scored a brilliant goal at the end and was the best of a dreadful bunch.
I like the idea he went to Ferguson to demand to know why we hadn't signed Ozil. He could easily be posting on this forum if he could operate the keyboard
What a twat.
"He would rage in the dressing room when I picked him out for criticism. His eyes would burn, as if he wanted to knock my lights out." - SAF on Rooney
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