Yeah but again, Fergie seemed to think that as well, and it's practically a rule with being selected in midfield for England these days
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter gooDevil
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I don't really have any problems with what Rooney said, if he thought he wouldn't be enjoying his football at the club then I can't blame him for considering leaving. As it is, Moyes decided he was worth keeping and he stayed, and is playing brilliantly.
I didn't say he made him a good footballer. He'd have done well to win 5 league titles and play in 3 Champions League finals under anyone else though.
How many games did he play in central midfield then? Why on earth would he tweet saying he enjoyed something so much and now say that was why he wanted to leave? I'm not sure Rooney is a reliable source on this one.
Fergie simply wanted the option of asking Rooney to do a job for the team in specific circumstances [primarily injuries or the need for his much lauded work rate and pressing of opponents] and for that player to raise his level to what it used to be, Rooney's present commitment to the club didn't allow him to accept that. He's happy now because he has scored a few goals, and despite being a No 10 and the side lacking in central areas, is all that is seemingly expected of him presently.
We'll be playing Arsenal next month, Moyes should be in a position where he can consider deploying Rooney in either a deeper role or the left side of the attack, however going by these remarks that particular avenue would be in doubt i think.
We'll be playing Arsenal next month, Moyes should be in a position where he can consider deploying Rooney in either a deeper role or the left side of the attack, however going by these remarks that particular avenue would be in doubt i think.
What are you talking about? He tweeted that straight after playing a game in midfield. In October. Doesn't mean we've gone and completely changed his role for the season. You're the only one here who thinks he played in midfield "a lot" last season.
Pretty much this. It wasn't an attempt to move Rooney into midfield permanently, but to cover our problems in that position at that time, something any of our players should do if asked to.
Phil Jones hasn't acted a twat nor Chris Smalling to my memory when asked to play a different role. Why should Rooney be different?
Polyvalence is a really valuable commodity and I agree that if you asked another player to play in another position, they would do it.
Because he isn't as professional as them. His own word was "selfish", which is pretty accurate. Still, we already knew that from his previous behaviour, didn't we?
It's a shame we need him so much, otherwise I'd have been quite happy to see him go. Pragmatism wins out though.
Add to that Carrick, Valencia, Welbeck, Giggs, Cleverley, Fletcher...and they are just those from current United vintage.
Rooney's stance basically dictates the formations David Moyes can and employ, and seeing as he has to play behind Robin it leaves Moyes with little room to manoeuvre from 4-4-1-1 / 4-2-3-1. Against Shakhtar (Rooney didn't play) Moyes tried out a 4-1-4-1 with RvP as the lone striker, suppose he wanted to try it out in the PL... Rooney might have another tantrum if asked to play deeper or wide. He has admitted he's being selfish and putting himself first, and imo the balance and harmony of the team is far more important than Wayne Rooney's precious little ego.
I spent the Summer defending him, and after the Swansea game I changed my stance. He's a brat.
Early days, I know, but I hope Adnan's development continues on the same trajectory over the course of this season, because #10 is his natural position and I'm convinced we already have Rooney's replacement.
I spent the Summer defending him, and after the Swansea game I changed my stance. He's a brat.
Early days, I know, but I hope Adnan's development continues on the same trajectory over the course of this season, because #10 is his natural position and I'm convinced we already have Rooney's replacement.
I don't think that's odd at all. With the right personel around you it's one of only a few positions you can play when you're "legs have gone."
Rooney is such a fecking dumb cnut.
Get rid of him and get someone who can and will play deeper than how he is playing at the moment. Its a win win win situation; get money for Rooney before hes over the top, get rid of a disruptive dressing room influence and lastly our shape would be so much better if our number 10 was playing deeper.
His smug fecking grin really pisses me off, thinking he can act and say whatever he wants now that SAF is gone.
Also, noodlehair's post above is an abomination, as is most of his posts in the United forums. Hes only tolerated because he is able to turn a phrase and articulate himself in a funny way, his actual arguments and opinions are shite.
Get rid of him and get someone who can and will play deeper than how he is playing at the moment. Its a win win win situation; get money for Rooney before hes over the top, get rid of a disruptive dressing room influence and lastly our shape would be so much better if our number 10 was playing deeper.
His smug fecking grin really pisses me off, thinking he can act and say whatever he wants now that SAF is gone.
Also, noodlehair's post above is an abomination, as is most of his posts in the United forums. Hes only tolerated because he is able to turn a phrase and articulate himself in a funny way, his actual arguments and opinions are shite.
I don't think that'll be a huge problem. If he is told to drop deeper for a specific match, I'm sure he'll do that without throwing a tantrum. Rooney and Fergie weren't grand mates towards the end, that's the main thing here. If Rooney had been an immense, selfish primadonna all along he would have thrown far worse tantrums at a much earlier stage.
For whatever reason he was unsettled last season: Finding himself behind RVP in Fergie's eyes may have been a big one. Not very mature, sure. Do we really expect a star footballer to be meek and humble, though? Yes, he was performing below par. Yes, Fergie had every right to drop him and every right to play him as deep as he saw fit - none of that is up for debate. It's a clear signal, though: You're not the favourite child anymore, Wayne. Deal with it. And Rooney dealt with it as many top players would have. By considering leaving for greener pastures. It's nothing exceptional about this at all.
Had Fergie stayed on as manager one out of two would've happened: 1) He would've sorted it out with Rooney, still being of the opinion Rooney is too good for us to lose, especially to a PL rival. 2) He would've forced Rooney out, being of the opinion it would be better for us in the long run - something he did on several occasions in the past (Beckham, not least). It's not a soap opera in which Rooney is the villain - it's just business, or football, or a combination of the two.
The fact we had fit midfield players available when Rooney had to play in midfield - that doesn't help the anti-Rooney case. We shouldn't have needed to rely on Rooney to put a shift in midfield when we had players available there.
If we had an midfield crisis in which everyone was injured - then fine.
If we had an midfield crisis in which everyone was injured - then fine.
woah! Gloves are off!It was a couple of games ffs. It's like fergie stuck an iron rod up his bum.
Noodles is a good poster who usually makes good points, and in addition puts in a good bit of humor too. But on this, I completely disagree with him. Rooney and fecking victim card is laughable, as was his ambition stance a couple of yeads back. Basically, he's a bit of an idiot.
Also his role was one of the reasons we struggled agains Sunderland for me. Nani and Januzaj were nice and tidy on the ball but there was basically a complete lack of someone linking play in the central areas. We needs a number 10 giving them options and dropping into the space, but both he and rvp were simply too far forward a lot of the time with neither acting as the link.
quote from another board
"Rooney is being played in the trequartista or advanced playmaker role. This means he is the creative hub of the team. Everything should go through him and he should orchestrate all our attacks. But that’s where the problem lies. If there is one thing lacking from the squad, it’s creativity. But Rooney is supposed to be the one creating things and being RvP’s Mesut Ozil. But there’s no support because Rooney has a tendency of dropping to deep and likes passing wide and running towards goal awaiting a cross.
This makes our strategy very easy to stifle because it’s predictable. It also isolates the main striker. That’s why you could see more creativity in the second half particularly with Adnan taking things into his own hands. He and Nani were the more active players and spent the most time on the ball. Both like to drift infield and are highly unpredictable. They both had good games and created most of the chances and were involved in all our best plays. If you look at Adnan’s performance,that’s exactly what Rooney should have been doing. I don’t mean in quality, but in role. Adnan involved himself in every attack and was very dynamic. Switching flanks, going through the middle and attacking goal. Nani was also doing the same, but was a bit more disciplined positionally. What that shows is, we have the wrong man for the playmaker’s role.
Rooney is struggling to create things centrally and maybe we need to move him further up or wider and employ someone else through the middle. Someone with the right qualities for that role. A dribbler, a passer and someone with enough vision and creativity and guile to make our attacks three dimensional.
Don’t drop Rooney, but give a more goal centred role. That’s one of the reasons why Berbatov suffered. If you place creativity primarily on Rooney, the main striker will suffer. It’s his versatility that fools managers sometimes. Capello was the first to discipline Rooney in that regard and publicly stated that he is forcing Rooney to be disciplined in his striker’s role. Then the goals started flowing for England. Soon after, Ferguson also restricted him upfront alone in 2010 and also publicly stated this. The result, 34 goals.
Moyes needs to realise that Rooney has to be shackled in order to get the best out of him. This is exactly what Benitez did with Gerrard. There was an outcry and controversy when he shifted Gerrard wide in order to have Mascherano and Alonso central. That season they finished 2nd place. It’s that kind of small detail that can change everything. Last season, Gerrard was deployed through the middle and he scored many goals but the team suffered creatively, until they acquired Coutinho for that role. You can see easily the huge difference. Gerrard and Rooney are the kind of streetwise footballer that will get MotM after MotM because of their industry,but they need to be played in positions that don’t demand too much soohistication. Usually wide or up top. In the days of Ronaldo and Rooney, we relied on a very effective Giggs to play that role. Rooney and Ronaldo were there to score and run around from wide positions, Giggs created everything and was always in support of Saha. During the Tevez era, it was a highly interchangeable frontline with Scholes playmaking from midfield in a Pirlo like role. Ronaldo was the key factor in his wierd inside left forward role. These were our most productive years. Rooney was not the creator in chief. Everytime we made him that, the results were unspectacular from a team perspective. Remember the partnership with Ruud, yielded very little from a team angle but Rooney was “on fire”. The same fate befell Berbatov. So the truth is Rooney in that position does more harm than good and the solution is simple. Don’t play him there."
"Rooney is being played in the trequartista or advanced playmaker role. This means he is the creative hub of the team. Everything should go through him and he should orchestrate all our attacks. But that’s where the problem lies. If there is one thing lacking from the squad, it’s creativity. But Rooney is supposed to be the one creating things and being RvP’s Mesut Ozil. But there’s no support because Rooney has a tendency of dropping to deep and likes passing wide and running towards goal awaiting a cross.
This makes our strategy very easy to stifle because it’s predictable. It also isolates the main striker. That’s why you could see more creativity in the second half particularly with Adnan taking things into his own hands. He and Nani were the more active players and spent the most time on the ball. Both like to drift infield and are highly unpredictable. They both had good games and created most of the chances and were involved in all our best plays. If you look at Adnan’s performance,that’s exactly what Rooney should have been doing. I don’t mean in quality, but in role. Adnan involved himself in every attack and was very dynamic. Switching flanks, going through the middle and attacking goal. Nani was also doing the same, but was a bit more disciplined positionally. What that shows is, we have the wrong man for the playmaker’s role.
Rooney is struggling to create things centrally and maybe we need to move him further up or wider and employ someone else through the middle. Someone with the right qualities for that role. A dribbler, a passer and someone with enough vision and creativity and guile to make our attacks three dimensional.
Don’t drop Rooney, but give a more goal centred role. That’s one of the reasons why Berbatov suffered. If you place creativity primarily on Rooney, the main striker will suffer. It’s his versatility that fools managers sometimes. Capello was the first to discipline Rooney in that regard and publicly stated that he is forcing Rooney to be disciplined in his striker’s role. Then the goals started flowing for England. Soon after, Ferguson also restricted him upfront alone in 2010 and also publicly stated this. The result, 34 goals.
Moyes needs to realise that Rooney has to be shackled in order to get the best out of him. This is exactly what Benitez did with Gerrard. There was an outcry and controversy when he shifted Gerrard wide in order to have Mascherano and Alonso central. That season they finished 2nd place. It’s that kind of small detail that can change everything. Last season, Gerrard was deployed through the middle and he scored many goals but the team suffered creatively, until they acquired Coutinho for that role. You can see easily the huge difference. Gerrard and Rooney are the kind of streetwise footballer that will get MotM after MotM because of their industry,but they need to be played in positions that don’t demand too much soohistication. Usually wide or up top. In the days of Ronaldo and Rooney, we relied on a very effective Giggs to play that role. Rooney and Ronaldo were there to score and run around from wide positions, Giggs created everything and was always in support of Saha. During the Tevez era, it was a highly interchangeable frontline with Scholes playmaking from midfield in a Pirlo like role. Ronaldo was the key factor in his wierd inside left forward role. These were our most productive years. Rooney was not the creator in chief. Everytime we made him that, the results were unspectacular from a team perspective. Remember the partnership with Ruud, yielded very little from a team angle but Rooney was “on fire”. The same fate befell Berbatov. So the truth is Rooney in that position does more harm than good and the solution is simple. Don’t play him there."
I wonder if we'd be better off as a team with a more conventional number 10. Might be the next step in the team's transformation, a bit like in 2006 when we lost Ruud but became a better team.
I think so.
It's a legitimate question. I don't have the answer. But I will say this: There are more ways than one to make your offensive players click. You don't necessarily need a specialized No10 playmaker in a set up like ours. If the wide players perform to a higher standard than we have seen of late, the picture looks very different - and much brighter. Add an on-form Rooney to a set-up with two creative, tucked-in wingers - and presto.
Do we have a better alternative IF we want to go for a specialized No10? Possibly, yes - Kagawa. But he is still unproven for us. And Rooney has been our best player thus far. In theory we could push him up front, drop RVP and let Kagawa run things in the hole. It could certainly work in theory. But that means dropping RVP. We could drop Rooney too - of course. But, again, whether one loathes him or not for his so-called antics, his performances so far hasn't merited this.
Spot on
I'm not a fan of Rooney's "I should play whenever or wherever I want and if I don't I'll kick up a fuss" attitude at all, but at the same time it was inevitable it was going to happen. From tha age of 16 everybody indulged him because he was England's brightest hope and when that hope dwindled nationaly, United were the ones indulging him because he became one of our most important players after Ronaldo left. When he wasn't being treated as the most important player at United last season, he couldn't stand it and his form and attitude went downhill. This season Moyes has started the We Love Rooney Foundation and his effort and form have improved.
On a side note,aside from being made to feel like he's number 1 again under Moyes, I do think a big reason why Rooney has rededicated himself has alot to do with what happened this summer. Either it' because of a bruised ego or an eye on next summer, but considering he's one of the biggest names in world football and still under 30, nobody really went in for him when his camp couldn't of made it more clear he was available. Only Chelsea were serious, PSG were interested but chose to get Cavani instead. There was zero interest from the likes of Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern.
On a side note,aside from being made to feel like he's number 1 again under Moyes, I do think a big reason why Rooney has rededicated himself has alot to do with what happened this summer. Either it' because of a bruised ego or an eye on next summer, but considering he's one of the biggest names in world football and still under 30, nobody really went in for him when his camp couldn't of made it more clear he was available. Only Chelsea were serious, PSG were interested but chose to get Cavani instead. There was zero interest from the likes of Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern.
To be honest, this boring shite is exactly why people were laughing at the slavering cafsters who wanted him to come out and explain himself. So having read/seen all of his reasoning it's time to move on and stop analysing it. It can be spun any which way anyone wants to spin it. What is done is done and he's at United playing football.
I think it's time to move on and just watch football and if you can't handle his shite then just ignore it.
I think people wanted him to tell the truth not give us more bullshit. You can't tell people to stop giving an opinion on a subject because it goes against your own.
It's irrelevant how many games he played in midfield or whether he excelled there. He's lying.
It doesn't go against my own opinion. I don't care either way as long as he stays and plays well then the club themselves will continue to stick by him and manage him accordingly.
Most of the shite on here is just wildly specualting and using phrases like 'quite clearly', 'well obviously', 'it's pretty obvious', 'lieing', 'spouting bullshit' when they don't have the slightest clue about it in truth.
Case and point the notion during the 'saga' of "If he comes out and explains himself people will just say that it's 'bullshit' and he is 'obviously meaning something else'." If anything in the last few pages is to go by then 'bingo', it's happened.
Welbeck. He is/was perfect for the 'Rooney Role' holds play up and stays on the line and links up play. RVP is more of a 'peel off and slip in' style striker and makes darting runs more than genuinely holds the ball up.
Why are you here ghaliboy, in this thread and on this forum in general? The way you talk about the users as a body it is a wonder that you choose to spend your time reading their contributions.
People are watching the football, they are seeing changes in Rooney as regards his work rate and the tactics fo the manager, naturally they and their wider impact are worthy of discussion in this thread.
What changes in tactics have taken place?
If Rooney made an ounce of sense more people would consider that he might be being honest, however daft his comments are. But they don't make sense. If he didn't like playing in midfield he could easily have said he doesn't like playing in midfield in the summer. Everyone would understand that. Asking to leave again, trying to push a move through to Chelsea and at no point over the summer mentioning that he doesn't want to be playing in midfield again, doesnt make sense.
It is quite clearly well obviously its pretty obvious he is lying and spouting bullshit
It is quite clearly well obviously its pretty obvious he is lying and spouting bullshit
'Well obviously quite clearly it's bullshit lies and so obvious that it's clearly well obvious'.
It's obvious he's not telling the truth when it has taken him this long to say anything and when he does it contradicts something he has previously said. Bury your head in the sand all you want.
I feel like he will for sure leave next summer (or even in January), and this season he's showing that he's still a world class player.
I won't hold anything against him like most people on here though if he leaves. He's in his 10th season now I think, and he's been brilliant for 9 of them, giving us his all, hardly kicking up a fuss ever about being shifted around for other players (until recently of course, and that time in 2010). He's almost our leading goalscorer of all time as well, so it would be pretty selfish and short sighted if fans started booing him for wanting out after the 9 years he's given us.
He wasn't raised as a United supporter so I don't understand why so many people feel betrayed at him wanting a new challenge after winning everything there is to win with United. Pretty sure the only thing he hasn't won so far is the FA cup, which I doubt he cares too much about. I'd understand him wanted to go to Madrid or Barca if he felt they have more of a chance to win the champions league then we do, so fair enough.
For anyone who thinks he's a cnut for wanting to leave or whatever, just put yourself in his shoes. You're 27, turning 28 in a few weeks, one of the best players in the world, and you're at a club that is going through a transition phase right now. You've won everything there is to win with that club, but weren't a supporter of them growing up. I'm sure most people out there would want to transfer to a club in a nicer city (no offence, I just don't think Manchester is really a dream city when he can choose anywhere pretty much), and at a club with more of a chance to win the champions league then we do currently. Who cares if he's being 'selfish'? He's got his own career and family to think about, which is always going to be more important than a football club.
Also as for his 'midfield' comments, maybe he meant more like he didn't like being just another player playing out of position in midfield, instead of being like the main man up top. Last season, Van Persie was quite clearly the main man, and so Rooney was pretty obviously second choice to him, and even in midfield Carrick was the main man. Back when he said he enjoyed his new midfield position, it was probably after he had a really good game there where everything went through him so he liked it.
I won't hold anything against him like most people on here though if he leaves. He's in his 10th season now I think, and he's been brilliant for 9 of them, giving us his all, hardly kicking up a fuss ever about being shifted around for other players (until recently of course, and that time in 2010). He's almost our leading goalscorer of all time as well, so it would be pretty selfish and short sighted if fans started booing him for wanting out after the 9 years he's given us.
He wasn't raised as a United supporter so I don't understand why so many people feel betrayed at him wanting a new challenge after winning everything there is to win with United. Pretty sure the only thing he hasn't won so far is the FA cup, which I doubt he cares too much about. I'd understand him wanted to go to Madrid or Barca if he felt they have more of a chance to win the champions league then we do, so fair enough.
For anyone who thinks he's a cnut for wanting to leave or whatever, just put yourself in his shoes. You're 27, turning 28 in a few weeks, one of the best players in the world, and you're at a club that is going through a transition phase right now. You've won everything there is to win with that club, but weren't a supporter of them growing up. I'm sure most people out there would want to transfer to a club in a nicer city (no offence, I just don't think Manchester is really a dream city when he can choose anywhere pretty much), and at a club with more of a chance to win the champions league then we do currently. Who cares if he's being 'selfish'? He's got his own career and family to think about, which is always going to be more important than a football club.
Also as for his 'midfield' comments, maybe he meant more like he didn't like being just another player playing out of position in midfield, instead of being like the main man up top. Last season, Van Persie was quite clearly the main man, and so Rooney was pretty obviously second choice to him, and even in midfield Carrick was the main man. Back when he said he enjoyed his new midfield position, it was probably after he had a really good game there where everything went through him so he liked it.
For Rooney personally i meant.
He has been used higher up the pitch than i recall last season and in the 'dreaded' midfield not at all, i would call that a change from the recent past. Admittedly we are but halfway through October yet going by that time period it is not a replica of what the SAF and co may have opted for.
Random caf poster in 'its obvious' shocker. So he's lying. Who cares? Like the rest of the uproar it's all mostly stemming from speculation on his character and not really his persona as a footballer. All wild speculation that we don't have a clue about.
It's obvious he's lying.
In fairness I'd say it's more likely he was lying in the previous instance just so he was seen as not rocking the boat and playing the happy chappy card in public in case he left.
Rooney isn't very clever, we know this. We also know he's got a knobend for an agent. It's quite likely everything that was said by Rooney's "camp" was his agent. He's the one who chose the agent of course but it's an important distinction. How would coming out and saying he wants a new challenge be a clever thing to do if he's being told by his manager(s) that they're not going to sell him? It weakens his position for the contract renewal. Do people really think it's remotely realistic to expect him to throw away a couple of million just to tell the fans what they want to hear? When Cantona wanted to leave England did he tell the fans?
I don't think there's much to support the idea he's playing any higher up the pitch - particularly if you watch that video of him v Sunderland spending 90% of his time in midfield or getting involved defensively - but the idea that he's playing less in midfield is quite blatantly bollocks. Before last season he must've played there a couple of times at most, the only time I can remember was back in 2006 v Blackburn alongside Rio. It's fairly obvious that he played more in midfield last year - whether that's in a diamond or a midfield three or a midfield two - and it's not at all outrageous that he didn't want to be played there. Van Persie wouldn't be happy if he was dropped back into centre mid.
A lot of people do clearly. No doubt your medal is in the post for not caring.Random caf poster in 'its obvious' shocker. So he's lying. Who cares? Like the rest of the uproar it's all mostly stemming from speculation on his character and not really his persona as a footballer. All wild speculation that we don't have a clue about.
It's obvious he's lying.
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