Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter gooDevil
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That is what United wants him to do and that is what he is doing. I completely fail to see how you get to make that distinction?
What other players? Think of it from his perspective. I really think, Ronaldo would have thrown a bloody tantrum...if Fergie had done that to him, no matter what the reason.
But frankly, we are digressing. Either way, my point being Rooney should be a better choice to be considered a legend that Ronaldo.
Im sure he would, Im just arguing that Rooney has not been mistreated. Chicarito, Welbeck and Berbs have all been benched in the pass whilst a clearly out of form Rooney has been picked ahead of them.
Personally Neither of them qualify for me, the term is thrown around far too much.
To paraphrase Kennedy; ask not what your team can do for you, but what you can do for your team. There's a clear distinction even if you are doing the same things. If I work and earn money, is it for me or my family. The work I do is the same, but the intentions are far different.
I think we will just have to disagree on this one
Well, then I would like to propose that David de Gea - to pick an example randomly - is in the same bracket: He only keeps a clean sheet to make himself look good. You see how this works?
It might be that Rooney is a selfish prick who only plays well because it will enhance his reputation - but it doesn't matter much, does it? Not as long as the "playing well" part is necessary for his evil scheme to work out for him.
Are people genuinely comparing Ronaldo, the man who dreamt of Real Madrid all his life, wanting to go to Real Madrid, who play in a different league to us, with Rooney wanting to go to Chelsea, a side that directly competes with us, just because he fell out with Ferguson even though Ferguson isn't manager anymore but because he's director he still is effectively manager, and also because David Moyes said nasty things in an interview about Wayne being backup but he didn't actually say those things and Wayne knew that but still wanted to leave because Ferguson, as manager, now director remember, which is effectively manager, said Wayne wanted to leave which was total nonsense, and made Wayne want to leave? Actually, that doesn't make any sense, that can't be the reason. Oh yeah, it was about not playing in his natural position because Van Persie is now at the club which means Rooney is being forced to play as a number 10, his natural position. No, wait, what? I have no idea why he wanted to leave, however it definitely wasn't about money and not being offered a new contract, definitely not, Wayne doesn't care about such things, he loves this club and would play for free if he had to, the man bleeds red, something which Phil Jones regularly proves in training.
On the plus side, he did play quite well on Saturday and I'm glad he decided to stay after we forced him to stay.
On the plus side, he did play quite well on Saturday and I'm glad he decided to stay after we forced him to stay.
You make some half decent points, but spoil it to propagate this myth that this was the totality of his season.
I did not even think there was a problem till the Real Madrid match. After that rumours were in abundance and every camp and camper has had their say!
Doesn't matter which club or player, expecting a player like Rooney to be benched and be happy is nonsense. Love for the club notwithstanding everyone has their own lives to take care. People talk as if Giggs and Scholes would be gladly playing for free here because of their love for the club.
Happy.....no, no one expects that, even me. To deal with it in a professional manner and earn his place back in the starting line up rather than have a pissy fit is not too much to ask.
I don't really care why he wanted to leave. Perhaps he did feel unwanted and unloved, who feckin' knows and who feckin' cares - what irks me somewhat is that people seem to regard his "antics" as exceptional somehow. Arguably he was played more out of position after RVP's arrival - and arguably he was dropped last season where he wouldn't have been the season before that. It's natural enough. Fergie relied less on him with RVP in the line-up. That's not tantamount to mistreatment, obviously not. But footballers are bloody precious creatures, not least those who have been told they're something special.
One might think it's pathetic of Rooney to sulk after being dropped for a big match - but it's not exactly rare. Show me a big name out there who would happily take to the bench to help out the team. Point is that Rooney's cuntishness is largely generic, so to speak - it's the cuntishness of a modern top player: Not particularly loyal, not particularly magnanimous, not particularly bright, etc.
As often as not the elements of his "saga" are blown out of proportion by people who just don't like him very much - people who would probably look past these elements if they pertained to another player. There's something random about it, in my opinion. The "moral" condemnation of Rooney won't stand up to further scrutiny in many cases - given what the people who condemn him are gladly prepared to overlook in other instances.
Nevermind, though. This has been done to death already. The fecker stayed on. We'll all be stuck with him for at least one more season. And so far, at least, it seems that he's prepared to do his job properly. That's the main thing, surely.
One might think it's pathetic of Rooney to sulk after being dropped for a big match - but it's not exactly rare. Show me a big name out there who would happily take to the bench to help out the team. Point is that Rooney's cuntishness is largely generic, so to speak - it's the cuntishness of a modern top player: Not particularly loyal, not particularly magnanimous, not particularly bright, etc.
As often as not the elements of his "saga" are blown out of proportion by people who just don't like him very much - people who would probably look past these elements if they pertained to another player. There's something random about it, in my opinion. The "moral" condemnation of Rooney won't stand up to further scrutiny in many cases - given what the people who condemn him are gladly prepared to overlook in other instances.
Nevermind, though. This has been done to death already. The fecker stayed on. We'll all be stuck with him for at least one more season. And so far, at least, it seems that he's prepared to do his job properly. That's the main thing, surely.
I think people wouldn't have a problem with Rooney wanting to leave to play for Real Madrid. It's that he questioned club's ambition the first time in 2010 and supposedly wanted to leave for City and then wanted to leave for Chelsea this year, both of whom are our title rivals, annoys people more than anything in this saga.
It's not as if he asked for Chelsea. They were the main bidders and Jose was playing him up some. Now we have rumours that Arsenal want him in Jan. No way he can be responsible for media trash. Do understand your point though, but I think people have made up their mind to lynch him and believe every scrap media prints against him.
If he keeps the fitness and effort levels up and scores goals, I don't think people will bother that much what's gone on. Just want to forget it now, it's boring.
Can someone with access to The Times please access this article and post it here? http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/premierleague/article3869841.ece
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
I actually feel slightly sorry for old arse hair on this one. Supporters spent 7/8 years before the first contract incident hearing about how Wayne loves the game and how he is the last of the street footballers and would play for free as long as it meant playing, sometimes from the media and sometimes from those connected with the club, but admittedly never from Rooney himself, and as much as people should know not to place too much faith in what they read and hear it does happen and people believed he really was different and also that he loved being at Utd. The revelation that he is just another self serving mercenary like 99.9% of players these days led to a lot of disappointment and hurt feelings for some supporters. Rooney didn't do anything a million other players don't do, but seemed to get more stick because of the image people had swallowed. Except me of course, I always knew he was a knob.
Agreed. Let's not forget as well that Ronaldo was disrespectful to the club in the summer of 2006.His comments along the lines of "I should get out of Manchester. I have not received the support from the manager and the president etc etc" Also the time he slammed his top in disgust after being substituted in the derby in May 2009 and then was shaking his head afterwards. I mean probably only Cantona got the same level of arm round the shoulder treatment from Fergie in his time as United manager. Also if Ronaldo was such a big Real Madrid fan, why didn't he watch them in the Champions League finals in 1998,2000 and 2002(he said in an ITV interview in the build up to the 2008 Champions League final that the first Champions League final he watched was between Milan and Juventus in 2003)
Amid some of the ugliness on display at Old Trafford on Saturday, there was one particular moment of beauty to cherish. Wayne Rooney had picked up possession just inside his own half, spotted Robin van Persie starting to peel away from Danny Gabbidon, the Crystal Palace defender, and arrowed a raking pass that the Dutchman took cleanly on his chest before crashing a volley against the crossbar.
There was no end product on this occasion, but it was a valiant attempt to recreate the wonder goal they had crafted against Aston Villa at the same end of the same ground five months earlier, and something of an antidote to the poison served up in the form of Ashley Young’s diving.
When Van Persie joined Manchester United from Arsenal 13 months ago, it was those flashes of brilliance that people expected the pair would produce on a frequent basis, unaware of the extent to which the breakdown in Rooney’s relationship with Sir Alex Ferguson would throw a spanner in the works.
Indeed, there was a time over the summer, with Chelsea lodging the first of two bids for Rooney and the player being described as “angry and confused” at his treatment by United, when it was hard to see what good could come from the mess David Moyes inherited from Ferguson, his predecessor as manager.
Only now, with the transfer window shut, Rooney reintegrated into the squad and the fans smoothing the path to redemption, is it possible to recognise that Moyes has been presented with an opportunity to cultivate a pairing.
“The hope is that we get a partnership where folk are saying, ‘My goodness, we are having to play against Robin van Persie and Wayne Rooney,’ ” Moyes said after both players scored against Palace to earn the United manager a controversial first win at Old Trafford.
“I have also got Chicharito [Javier Hernández] and Danny Welbeck — Danny has made a great start to the season — [but] everybody is looking to see if those two [Van Persie and Rooney] form a partnership that can score lots.”
The statistics here are instructive, not only in underlining how little time relatively that Rooney and Van Persie have been given to hone their understanding, but also because they offer a tantalising indication of the rewards that may lie in wait if the pair are unleashed in unison.
Of the 59 matches United have played since Van Persie signed in August last year, the Dutchman and Rooney started just 26 of them together and played with each other in attack — either as a direct pairing or with the England forward just behind Van Persie — in only 17 of those fixtures. Tellingly, though, those 17 games, including Saturday, have yielded 21 goals, with Rooney accounting for 11 of them and Van Persie the other ten. What Moyes would give for them to add to that tally at home to Bayer Leverkusen tomorrow evening, when the manager takes charge of his first game in the Champions League proper.
Ferguson was in the crowd against Palace to watch Rooney score his first goal of the season, an arced free-kick, after Van Persie had opened the scoring with a penalty won in contentious circumstances by Young.
One of the many reasons Rooney became so bitterly disenchanted under Ferguson was the former manager’s growing tendency to deploy him in a midfield role, but Moyes has no such plans. With Marouane Fellaini, who made his debut against Palace, likely to become the preferred partner to Michael Carrick in central midfield, Rooney’s responsibilities will continue to lie much further upfield.
“I can only see Wayne playing up top and playing as a forward for us,” Moyes said. “I don’t have a goals target for him, but his targets have been big in recent years. It was down last year, but to be successful you need to have people who can score you 20 goals.
“I am hoping with Robin and Wayne that you have two there who you would say have it in them to do that. Can Wayne get to thirty plus? I will try to do that. I think his aim will be to do that as well. Hopefully we can make that happen.”
There was no end product on this occasion, but it was a valiant attempt to recreate the wonder goal they had crafted against Aston Villa at the same end of the same ground five months earlier, and something of an antidote to the poison served up in the form of Ashley Young’s diving.
When Van Persie joined Manchester United from Arsenal 13 months ago, it was those flashes of brilliance that people expected the pair would produce on a frequent basis, unaware of the extent to which the breakdown in Rooney’s relationship with Sir Alex Ferguson would throw a spanner in the works.
Indeed, there was a time over the summer, with Chelsea lodging the first of two bids for Rooney and the player being described as “angry and confused” at his treatment by United, when it was hard to see what good could come from the mess David Moyes inherited from Ferguson, his predecessor as manager.
Only now, with the transfer window shut, Rooney reintegrated into the squad and the fans smoothing the path to redemption, is it possible to recognise that Moyes has been presented with an opportunity to cultivate a pairing.
“The hope is that we get a partnership where folk are saying, ‘My goodness, we are having to play against Robin van Persie and Wayne Rooney,’ ” Moyes said after both players scored against Palace to earn the United manager a controversial first win at Old Trafford.
“I have also got Chicharito [Javier Hernández] and Danny Welbeck — Danny has made a great start to the season — [but] everybody is looking to see if those two [Van Persie and Rooney] form a partnership that can score lots.”
The statistics here are instructive, not only in underlining how little time relatively that Rooney and Van Persie have been given to hone their understanding, but also because they offer a tantalising indication of the rewards that may lie in wait if the pair are unleashed in unison.
Of the 59 matches United have played since Van Persie signed in August last year, the Dutchman and Rooney started just 26 of them together and played with each other in attack — either as a direct pairing or with the England forward just behind Van Persie — in only 17 of those fixtures. Tellingly, though, those 17 games, including Saturday, have yielded 21 goals, with Rooney accounting for 11 of them and Van Persie the other ten. What Moyes would give for them to add to that tally at home to Bayer Leverkusen tomorrow evening, when the manager takes charge of his first game in the Champions League proper.
Ferguson was in the crowd against Palace to watch Rooney score his first goal of the season, an arced free-kick, after Van Persie had opened the scoring with a penalty won in contentious circumstances by Young.
One of the many reasons Rooney became so bitterly disenchanted under Ferguson was the former manager’s growing tendency to deploy him in a midfield role, but Moyes has no such plans. With Marouane Fellaini, who made his debut against Palace, likely to become the preferred partner to Michael Carrick in central midfield, Rooney’s responsibilities will continue to lie much further upfield.
“I can only see Wayne playing up top and playing as a forward for us,” Moyes said. “I don’t have a goals target for him, but his targets have been big in recent years. It was down last year, but to be successful you need to have people who can score you 20 goals.
“I am hoping with Robin and Wayne that you have two there who you would say have it in them to do that. Can Wayne get to thirty plus? I will try to do that. I think his aim will be to do that as well. Hopefully we can make that happen.”
Has anyone entertained the idea that Fergie retired because he felt his relatioship with Rooney had become irrepairable (unrepairable?) and didn't want the friction between them to damage the club?
Quality, thank you!
Interesting that the RvP-Rooney partnership has barely gotten off the ground:
No way. If it was a him or me scenario, fergie who have thrown Rooneys arse out of old Trafford a long time ago. He does things on his terms.
There's a chance it could have played a part in his decision to retire, albeit a small part. But no, I don't believe that.
No. He would have turfed Rooney out. Fergie knows he is a lot more important to our success than Rooney.
He regrets doing it with Stam, probably the only player who at the time of their departure still had plenty to offer the club. Rooney still has plenty to offer and there are only two clubs that he could turn up at, City and Chelsea.
Yeah, I doubt it was the primary reason but I wonder if it had any influence. Fergie was starting to come in for criticism that he behaving as if he were bigger than the club. Seems a noble way to go out and a perfect riposte to such criticism if so.
Hehe, yeah - I know you had his number all along...I actually feel slightly sorry for old arse hair on this one. Supporters spent 7/8 years before the first contract incident hearing about how Wayne loves the game and how he is the last of the street footballers and would play for free as long as it meant playing, sometimes from the media and sometimes from those connected with the club, but admittedly never from Rooney himself, and as much as people should know not to place too much faith in what they read and hear it does happen and people believed he really was different and also that he loved being at Utd. The revelation that he is just another self serving mercenary like 99.9% of players these days led to a lot of disappointment and hurt feelings for some supporters. Rooney didn't do anything a million other players don't do, but seemed to get more stick because of the image people had swallowed. Except me of course, I always knew he was a knob.
You're probably right, though. In fact, what you say is close to what I've come to believe myself: That Rooney has never been regarded as any old (or rather young) player by our fans. He was looked on as a special talent, someone who was destined for greatness - and perhaps also destined to be a United great. I think this, more than anything, explains the animosity towards him.
Partly, he has turned out to be run-of-the-mill in terms of his relationship with the club: He doesn't love United as we do - or as certain other United legends have done in the past. Partly, he hasn't become quite the player we hoped for: In my opinion he is a great player, but he isn't our version of Messi or Ronaldo - and I think many had hoped for just that: Someone consistently brilliant, an undisputed world great whose status nobody could question.
Can't see Sir Alex going out based on something like that. It almost seemed based on his signings a year earlier that he had the contingency in place to replace Rooney...but then that thought is quashed when he essentially said "1 more title wrestled back from the noisy neighbours, then I'm off to enjoy retirement with the mrs".
Ferguson is a fantastic politician, I think a lot of things informed his decision. With Fergie you have to consider everything and I wouldn't write this off as being something which he thought about, whether or not it was pivotal (probably not) it will have occurred to a master like SAF.
My opinion has always been that Sir Alex said that Rooney has asked to leave again, was done solely to help out David Moyes who was his choice to takeover all along. After Sir Alex said Rooney wanted to leave, the attitude amongst most supporters was "feck off Rooney" and if he was sold to anyone but a rival, not too many people would be upset. Without Sir Alex saying Rooney wants to leave, if Moyes sold Rooney the knives would be out and he'd be heavily scrutinized before a game was even played.
Irreparable. Yes. But if it had become that AND Fergie had decided not to retire, the latter would've kicked Rooney out on his arse. No question about it. However, I don't think their relationship was beyond repair. Fergie might have done what Moyes seems to have: Convince Rooney that right now he's better off where he is. Or, at the very least, let him know that Chelsea isn't a viable alternative, quite simply.
Fergie's relationship with Rooney was complicated. But the old man rated him, as they say. Maybe more than many of Rooney's current detractors like to contemplate. Fergie was the one who sanctioned his contract boost after the "ambitions" affair. He deemed Rooney necessary back then. He might have deemed him so again. People throw terms like "bending over" out too freely. Fergie didn't bend over for Rooney in 2010, nor would he have done so in 2013. He considered him important, not to say crucial. But if Rooney had posed any kind of threat to the overall balance - Fergie would've neutralized that threat no matter what the cost.
Cheers, mate - of course we can get along: We both know there are far more important people in the world than Wayne Rooney. And I get along with anyone who's buying the beer.See, I knew we could get along
An interesting and insightful interpretation.
Cheers. His book should be interesting, wonder if he'll touch on the subject at all.
No he wasn't.
I bet you're a real joy to be around in person!
Course I am! I'm only like this with you Rowem. Because you are a massive bishop.
Very interesting, yes. And it would be conspicuously odd if he didn't bring up the Rooney situation. It's a question of whether he is inclined to be perfectly candid, though. He is still very much around, on the board and so forth.
Yeah, I reckon it won't be too indepth unless he comes out with one of the scenarios we discussed here.
Anyone posted this yet?
Come on, Dwayne. Fergie would laugh uncontrollably like a maniac at the suggestion that his retirement had anything to do with Wayne Rooney. Like I said, if the relationship was no repairable, Fergie would have dumped Rooney out of Old Trafford without blinking. He was a man who did things his way. Like feck was he going to have a player play any part in his retirement. He knew they were all replaceable and everytime he did let go of one, he tended to get another better one just around the corner. He might regret letting some players go but if it comes down to player of him, the decision is already made for him.
Fergie would always do what's best for the club. He more than anyone knew that he wouldn't likely be around for another five years as the boss so the Rooney situation may have influenced things, it's not completely unreasonable. Yes, there is plenty of history of Fergie fecking off players but the majority of those were past it. Stam is the exception and Fergie admits he got that one wrong. With what we know about Fergie, we can be certain that weighed heavily on his thinking with Rooney.
There really won't be any one compelling reason why Fergie stepped aside when he did but age mellows men and I think there's something to the idea that him staying on as manager and losing Rooney was not something he wanted to contemplate, knowing where he'd likely end up and the extra motivation Rooney would have with Fergie still at the helm. A good time to retire, a nice parting clip round the ears for Wayne and a chance for the club to keep their heartbeat.
There really won't be any one compelling reason why Fergie stepped aside when he did but age mellows men and I think there's something to the idea that him staying on as manager and losing Rooney was not something he wanted to contemplate, knowing where he'd likely end up and the extra motivation Rooney would have with Fergie still at the helm. A good time to retire, a nice parting clip round the ears for Wayne and a chance for the club to keep their heartbeat.
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