The silence says it all really. I think he's an even bigger cnut than I did after 2010, but still wouldn't sell him to Chelsea for any amount.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
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The silence says it all really. I think he's an even bigger cnut than I did after 2010, but still wouldn't sell him to Chelsea for any amount.
Our plan and hope in the club are of course after 2nd of september that the club and him can sit down and then during the time come to a solution to this. I don't think we are ready to just let him leave for free in 2015, either he will sign a new deal or he will be sold next year.
I think saw an update from the "Sky Sources" just before the England circus started today saying that Rooney still had some unresolved issues with United, so if that's accurate then I doubt we'll be hearing from him any time soon if the club are unwilling to "resolve" whatever issues he and Stretford have invented.
He's said everything through his silence. He wants out, if we accept a bid, he'l race out the door. If not, he's not going to let his career go tits up, he'l stay and play as well as he can. Contract negotiations will be interesting though when the time comes.
Exactly. I hate the cnut but there's no denying his quality and like feck should we sell to Chelsea regardless of the bid.
He's too stupid and fat to play well into his 30's with any sort of effectiveness. I'd be perfectly happy to see the club run his contract out and let him go when he's past his best.
Has 404 appearances for United, the same as Dennis Law. Law is on 237 goals, Rooney on 197. Not bad that
That would be a waste of money, we need to get this year out of him, hopefully with it being a world cup year he'll be trying harder than he did last year, then we will just have to sell him in the summer as arsenal did with rvp. Should get 15m for him, being 28 going on 29, and by that point we would have definately got the best years out of him. Dont think it would be worth keeping him to run down his contract
Yeah i saw that too, although the issues were with 'ferguson' not utd.
I really hope he is no longer a Manchester United player on 03/09/13
I bet he wanted to join his mate Terry & co at Chelski but he has to wait another year...
That's a pointless hope to have now no ?
Never give up hope.
I'd sell him to any club in the world but Chelsea - because that's where he wants to go.
Fergie would never have kept him this summer imo
I'd sell him to any club in the world but Chelsea - because that's where he wants to go.
Fergie would never have kept him this summer imo
Papers are all saying he'll be offered a new deal in the New Year.
My version of it makes more sense.
The Autumn? They may as well send him the new contract now with a big red bow on top for all he use that would do.
Would we really want to recommence off-field scheming and unwanted headlines after we'd just rid ourselves of the same a month or two earlier?
Tit.Hardcore fan in 'believing the club is his own and he should have a say in making the decisions' shocker.
Making the club look stupid if he gets another pay rise out of this.
That is because you are reading an interpretation of Jose-speak. It was reported differently in various press. My quote is correct, I saw him say it, and reads that he told someone that it is very important in (to) his career(to move).
I can't make you believe that, and tried to find the full interview, so I will just give up and leave you in your own fluffy world.
That's mighty kind of you. Good to see some niceness on here.
Arguably so, and if Woodward has the cheque book out before we even reach November for pity sake then Rooney will barely have worked for it.
Alternatively, i the terms aren't to Wayne's liking then we'll be back in this mess again albeit during the season.
I fail to see the need to rush this either way, on the contrary in fact.
If he plays well and United win the league this season I don't think we'd look stupid at all. I think we'd have handled it very well. And even if we did look stupid to some people, I'd rather look stupid with a league title than clever (or strong?) without one.
Having said all that I don't think he'll sign another contract with United.
Having said all that I don't think he'll sign another contract with United.
As long as he doesn't get pay rise.
We can win the league without giving him a pay rise. He doesn't deserve one. Don't mind a contract extension as long as no more childish fits.
I didn't read the article. But I was imagining, if he got a pay rise, it would be next summer, with us having won the league and him having settled back in. In those circumstances I would have no objection. Before then I'd be less keen.
I'd be very surprised if he got a pay rise in a new contract before the end of the season. As was said above, in those circumstances it would look very weak. It'd invite all sorts of jiggery pokery from other players.
Are we really going to kill Rooney over that missed chance to pass? bloody hell.. footballers make bad decisions all the time, he might have been committed to taking the shot once he received it and failed to spot the RvP run.. and regretted it as soon as h hit the strike, shit happens. If it becomes a consistent thing where he ignores RvP, then yeah criticise him but at the moment that seemed like just a general error you see at any level of the game even amongst the elite.
It was a good shot as well which drew a good save, our best effort by a mile, could understand heavier criticism if the shot was poor. He also made some good decisions in the match, creating our best chance for Welbeck and made the right decision on our final counter attack. Nearly played in Van Persie as well with a clever attempt.
Not really. Only RVP and arguably Vidic are of the age (still have use for them over the next few seasons) or status where the club would entertain such antics rather than ship them off at the first sign of trouble.
Fortunately for us, RVP is very happy and settled and Vidic seems to be content, too.
Any other player but those two and Wayne and they would've been out the door a long time before the antics could even escalate.
There are so many daft posts in this thread talking down Rooney that are either put up by short-sighted people who fail to comprehend all he brings to the table as a player, or are posted from an emotional platform that makes them redundant, but it should be obvious to all and sundry how much Manchester United, as a club, value Rooney to put up with all that they have with him. That alone puts him in a special bracket of maybe six players over the last ten years we would do the same for. Just for my own entertainment, let me try and name them all: a young Rio, Scholes, RVN, Ronaldo, Keane, Vidic and I think that's about it! I'm not even sure Scholes should be mentioned because apart from one blip where he refused to play a game, he was a perfect servant here, and I didn't mention Giggs because we've had no trouble from him, but it's more about the quality of all of them and even then, we shipped RVN as soon as he was expendable, and i've no doubt we'd do the same to Wayne if we had a few emerging world stars on our books now.
Point is, special players get special privileges, and it'll always be the case whether people like it or not. Every player I listed above, apart from Vidic, did something at one time or another that would've seen a lesser player booted out of the club instantly, but for them, we put up with it and worked around it until it was resolved or they were expendable. Once the club value Wayne in a different light and consider him expendable, he'll be booted out the club without hesitation, but until that time, he'll be regarded as a treasure we should do our damnedest not to lose and certainly not on the grounds of him being a bit moody and childish.
What also seems to be put out a lot in this thread is the notion you can replace all he brings to the table with a single player... not for the prices we pay in the market you can't, and even if we were big spenders, players of his calibre are not being sold by the premier clubs they are at.
Hate him or love him, his worth and ability should be recognised, and even when not at his best, he carries an aura amongst fellow professionals that aids the entire attacking unit around him, which in turn benefits us as a club. There are so few players like that in the game today, we would be foolish not to do all in our power to keep the one (from two) that we have here.
Good post Fortitude. I agree with most of what you say. I still think the club would be mindful of setting precedents, not necessarily because other players would be in a similar position to Rooney, but because treating him that way might still invite players to act up, even if it would play out very differently. Or just because it would be toxic in the dressing room. But as you say, he is a special case (in a number of ways) and the club will do what it can to keep him, as has already been demonstrated - and I have no issue with that.
I particularly agree with what you said about the "daft" and "emotional" posts in this thread, a case in point yesterday being Kevin - no worse than many others to be fair - with his "shitting all over the club and the fans" comments. Things like that get said so often you have to keep reminding yourself it is completely distorted beyond recognition, and it sets a very unhelpful backdrop to this whole debate. But that is inevitable on a football forum I guess.
I particularly agree with what you said about the "daft" and "emotional" posts in this thread, a case in point yesterday being Kevin - no worse than many others to be fair - with his "shitting all over the club and the fans" comments. Things like that get said so often you have to keep reminding yourself it is completely distorted beyond recognition, and it sets a very unhelpful backdrop to this whole debate. But that is inevitable on a football forum I guess.
He's not played like a special player in recent times. His stock is at it's lowest for a long time. We can be patient with him because it's in ours interest. I'm okay with that. But if it will take a pay rise to keep him motivated and happy then he can go feck himself.
And yes you can replace what he brings with one player. Is Wayne Rooney actually two footballers? If you with another top class player as his replacement he will do some things and some things better. But you'll still get a replacement.
Anyways much of this is pointless now. He's staying and It's for the better given our only option was Chelsea.
I pop into the thread from time to time and try and pick out the well thought out and/or considered posts, the overly emotional or the posts that consider Rooney some run-of-the-mill player barely register anymore such is their absurdity.
Regarding precedents and the club's stance. I think the calibre of squad and the context by which a player therein is acting up is the biggest factor. For example, if we were of the same quality across the board as we had circa 2008, we would not tolerate Wayne's antics. At the same time, I bet Wayne's people would know that they couldn't do the things they've done and are actually using our brevity of star turns as the prime bargaining tool for their client, which, from their POV, is a smart, if not cnutish, thing to do.
I agree with you about dressing room discord, but I think Wayne has been an established top dog at the club since at least 2007 when the likes of Keane had moved on and since that time has been seen as one of the untouchable few who have different rules and parameters set for them even if all animals on the farm are said to be equal, so I would think Wayne's antics play out as an independent entity far removed from the reality of day-to-day life for the majority of the squad. Is it right? Of course not, but special players are always given carte blanch within reason and it happens at every club under every manager - lest we forget it took Keane practically upsetting the entire club for him to be booted, or the curious case of Ronaldo's last season and some of his antics at the time - and will continue to do so until that player is usurped or is no longer special.
The hierarchal nature of clubs and teams is an interesting paradigm in itself, really, and in many ways a good problem to have, because if you're there, then you've most likely got an exceptional, if cnutish, bunch of superstars on your hands who have 'earned' the right to be utter bell-ends via their productivity on the pitch.
His stock according to whom? Certainly not the club because we are adamant in our stance with him and will, without question, sort a new deal if he's willing to sign.
Wayne Rooney brings more to the table than all but a handful of players can, and yes, in effect, you would need two players to provide all that he does, just as you would with others in the top bracket, which is one of the reasons they are invaluable.
Bollocks. Someone like Ozil could easily step in and do just as good a job. Rooney is a top player but there are many top players out there. Maybe you'd need a couple if we replace him with someone as good as Valencia.
You think a player should play below par and be regarded with a pay rise? I think not. The club can make mistakes if they want. Every club does. But I don't think playing well below par and refusing to play and wanting to leave make one eligible for a pay rise.
It probably hinges on the bit in bold. Without wanting to get all hysterical: "HE DID THIS TO US ONCE BEFORE! HE DARED TO QUESTION THE CLUB AND THE MANAGER, HE BETRAYED US, HE SAID HE WANTED TO BE ELSEWHERE, HE DOESNT REALLY LOVE THE CLUB." I am being facetious here, in the sense that I was as put out by that as the next person. It wasnt a great situation obviously, but what happened happened and he got a pay rise out of it. You cant look at this situation in isolation, it only makes sense in the context of what happened before, and you have to come to your own judgement about whether it would be "within reason" for the whole thing to play out in exactly the same way for a second time, so quickly.
Its all very arbitrary to be honest. For me, reading this thread this morning and making a snap judgement about it while sipping my tea, while the kids were watching Charlie and Lola, it felt like it would be acceptable for him to get a pay rise next summer, if he plays well this season and helps us to win the league, and his representatives cease stirring shit up in the media. Giving him a pay rise next month would not feel right to me. But as I said this is all very subjective, you may well believe he is that special that it wouldnt hurt to give him what he wants now. Others would say get rid just for daring to suggest to SAF he wasnt happy last season. Id certainly be closer to you than to them, but I think the sensible way forward is a middle way.
Ozil leaves you without:
- goals
- defensive contribution
- power
- aggression
- studiousness off the ball
- flexibility/ tactical adjustment
For an upgrade in creativity, through balls and one-touch football. In a team like ours, that is a terrible trade off that puts far too much pressure on RVP to score and our CM's to be better than they are. Effectively, you need Ozil plus a top notch CM to replace Rooney in our team.
Your last paragraph creates a strawman by which you argue it and doesn't answer the question I put to you.
Why do you want power, aggression and "studiousness off the ball" whatever that means. He'd a different player, he'd being other things to the table. He wouldn't run around as much and wouldn't score as much but would create more, help us hold on to the ball under pressure and run the game better. It's a trade off.
We anyway need our CMs to be better than they are. Rooney doesn't do their job so as to increase our need for a central midfielder. It exists anyway and we will eventually get another midfielder regardless of Rooney or Ozil. So it's pointless. It will happen.
The goals argument also doesn't stand as he's more creative. So he'll make up for lesser goals by making sure the team creates more.
It answers your question very well. I was talking about what "should" be the case not what the management of united think or will do. I believe Wayne Rooney today is a less important player to this team than he once was and has was not very good in the season gone by. So as per me his stock has gone down. And more importantly, taking into consideration of the facts above, I don't believe he's worthy of a pay rise.
Power? Aggression? that's what we're placing stock in?
Rooney's best position is as a striker - because his best skill is his ability to score goals. He is, quite simply, not as good at being creative/breaking down defences/operating in tight spaces (I mean, he is good at these things, but they're not his best attributes)... which are the main sort of skills I'd be looking for from my man behind the striker, especially in tight games when we're struggling to find routes to goals (which happens often enough).
Simply put, someone like Ozil is much better at playing behind the striker then Rooney is.
I've removed emotion where Rooney is involved - can't really look at him in the same way since the first contract dispute. But at the same time, if we look at the squad and the world game objectively, his stock and worth to us is far, far higher than some either want to acknowledge or realise and that's a position of strength for him and his team of feckwits to wrangle what they want out of us or try and get him sold.
I'd say the bottom line with this 'saga' is far more important than being invested emotionally in the player, and to that end, until, or unless, we can replace him with someone of equal quality, we would be shooting ourselves in the foot to sell him, and especially on an intra-league sale. Rooney goes abroad or he stays here, is the way I see it.
With the way Rooney is - a big, spoilt baby - it wouldn't surprise me if this whole thing can be put to bed during the season, and I think the club would act without hesitation to re-secure such an asset. I wouldn't have a problem with that even if I am emotionally detached from him as a Manchester United player.
Power and aggression are invaluable in the Premier League. It's going to be one of the key reasons (alongside pace) that Jose dumps Chelsea's best player.
Rooney is a very rare composition as a player and I'd challenge you to find another 'hole player' who has such a broad scope as he does. There's no question he isn't the best user of the ball in the #10 position, but allied to everything else he does from the position, he is more than adequate at the job.
Ozil doesn't score anywhere near enough goals to be considered 'better' as a #10 than Rooney - he is only part of the archetypal #10 and severely lacks in the other essential aspect of the role. As I said before, Ozil puts more pressure on the #9 ahead of him to score, because he's not going to do enough of that himself.
In a team with goal-scoring wing-forwards as well as prolific striker, a player like Ozil is in his element. As it stands, we don't have anything like prolific wide-men or goals from deep midfield, ergo, you're left with RVP having an anchor around his neck to provide an insane amount of goals to offset the loss of Rooney's usual contribution.
Ozil works perfectly at a team like Real Madrid and also his NT for a very good reason and we do not have the same kind of tools to best make use of what he provides, which is in contrast to Rooney in the same role.
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