Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

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Revan said:
Because Mata would have completed us too. He had a much better season than Rooney last season, is younger and is on less wages. It makes perfect sense for us. Unless we think that we can sell Rooney for 40m or more abroad and we can fine a good replacement for him for 20m or so.

The deal makes perfect sense for us, and while it looks mental for Chelsea, it is probably good for them too.
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No, Thiago or Fabregas (or both) would have completed us. And with expected improvements from Hernandez and Welbeck as well as our tendency to only play 1 striker, we have a surplus of strikers. Keeping 4 strikers in a nice situation to be in.

I'd still be very interested in pursuing such a deal, but gaining Mata in exchange for Rooney does not provide the balance we all seek in the squad.
 
Stickles said:
Difference is we approached Arsenal for RVP and had seen him as a target. If he wasn't a target and Arsenal said "you want RVP" of course we'd have had to think about it and perhaps looked into different aspects of his game that we may not have scrutinised so clinically as we would have done at that stage with other players who we had identified.

I don't think some appreciate just how much work goes into identifying a target. It's not just watching them play and making a conclusion. I'm not disregarding Mata's abilities but the way it's just dismissed as nonsense this idea that he may not be the sort of player we'd identified for the campaign is silly. As if all the planning that goes into identifying targets is "Someone in midfield....who's very good"

We'll need to know what type of system we'd need to play to make the most of him, for one and that might not have been something before now that we've planned for. So research IS needed as is consideration.
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I still think the idea that the club don't know exactly what Mata is all about is insane.
 
Woodzy said:
Mata was their best player last season. Rooney was far from ours. This is nuts.
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That's not the issue though, it's perfectly logical to think Rooney could go to Chelsea and be amazing again, and he's pretty much exactly what they need. It's definitely right of the club to be cautious in that regard. He's basically their missing link and whilst Mata is amazing, he's not as essential to us as Rooney would be to them.
 
Cina said:
But we didn't need RvP, he probably wasn't on this "sheet" you keep mentioning, he became available and SAF basically went "he's amazing, I want him". I'm not sure how difficult it is to fathom the idea that if a player is of a high enough standard as a footballer, the club should buy him. Do you really think our scouts are going to go "hang on boss, I know he's an amazing footballer, but he's not quick enough, don't buy him?".
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This, there are some players you make room for whether they were in your plans or not. Mata would improve our squad immensely.
 
Stickles said:
Difference is we approached Arsenal for RVP and had seen him as a target. If he wasn't a target and Arsenal said "you want RVP" of course we'd have had to think about it and perhaps looked into different aspects of his game that we may not have scrutinised so clinically as we would have done at that stage with other players who we had identified.

I don't think some appreciate just how much work goes into identifying a target. It's not just watching them play and making a conclusion. I'm not disregarding Mata's abilities but the way it's just dismissed as nonsense this idea that he may not be the sort of player we'd identified for the campaign is silly. As if all the planning that goes into identifying targets is "Someone in midfield....who's very good"
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Stop being a Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime.

If United have rejected this offer it's not because we don't want Mata, it's because we know we can get more money out of Chelsea as they're about as desperate for a striker as we are for a CM, and we currently have 50% of the sport's available world class strikers under contract (with the other 50% being a horrible, racist scumrat). There's a certain calibre of players who don't need to be researched and heavily scouted before inviting them into your first team, and Juan Mata is one of them.
 
sammsky1 said:
No, Thiago or Fabregas (or both) would have completed us. And with expected improvements from Hernandez and Welbeck as well as our tendency to only play 1 striker, we have a surplus of strikers. Keeping 4 strikers in a nice situation to be in.

I'd still be very interested in pursuing such a deal, but gaining Mata in exchange for Rooney does not provide the balance we all seek in the squad.
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Mata can play perfectly in Rooney's position and he can play wide too where Rooney struggled to do so (in that case Kagawa would play on the center). Hernandez and Welbeck would provide perfect cover in case something happens to Van Persie. Ad to that Mata is a better player than Rodney, is 3 years younger and would be on less higher wage. And with those 10m money and some others we have we can buy a midfielder. I think that it is a no brainier deal to em and the only reason why we didn't accept it is because we didn't receive such an offer.
 
Vasey20|13 said:
I'm pretty awful at wording stuff and so i get misunderstood a lot on here, but surely you understand that we need a midfielder, and there appeared to be very little class out there for us until this situation cropped up? He'd be perfect in our squad. I dunno if you're just miswording stuff?

We need a midfielder, we need rid of Rooney. They are supposedly offering money + one of the PL's best midfielders. We'd be mental not to snap their hands off.
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He's a midfielder only in the sense that Kagawa is. He's not the type who can play 40 games as Carrick's partner that we need.
 
Woodzy said:
Mata was their best player last season. Rooney was far from ours. This is nuts.
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It's almost as if they think that what happened prior to last season should be considered. Strange.
 
sammsky1 said:
No, Thiago or Fabregas (or both) would have completed us. And with expected improvements from Hernandez and Welbeck as well as our tendency to only play 1 striker, we have a surplus of strikers. Keeping 4 strikers in a nice situation to be in.

I'd still be very interested in pursuing such a deal, but gaining Mata in exchange for Rooney does not provide the balance we all seek in the squad.
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We'd be swapping a striker (we have plenty) for a midfielder (an area we desperately need improving in)?
 
Stickles said:
Difference is we approached Arsenal for RVP and had seen him as a target. If he wasn't a target and Arsenal said "you want RVP" of course we'd have had to think about it and perhaps looked into different aspects of his game that we may not have scrutinised so clinically as we would have done at that stage with other players who we had identified.

I don't think some appreciate just how much work goes into identifying a target. It's not just watching them play and making a conclusion. I'm not disregarding Mata's abilities but the way it's just dismissed as nonsense this idea that he may not be the sort of player we'd identified for the campaign is silly. As if all the planning that goes into identifying targets is "Someone in midfield....who's very good"

We'll need to know what type of system we'd need to play to make the most of him, for one and that might not have been something before now that we've planned for. So research IS needed as is consideration.
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I don't think you appreciate how much work goes into preparing a team to face another team. Do you think we play Chelsea without our scouts and coaches closely researching every player they have, and what their strengths and weaknesses are? Do you think we'll play Chelsea, Mata will do something and we'll think "Christ, who knew he was a good finisher on his left foot?".

Our scouts and coaches will know all about Mata, what he's good it, what he's not so good at. They'll have prepared our players to face him and will have worked on how to neutralize him. He doesn't need extensively scouted, it's clear he's kinda good.
 
Harry Redknapp operates the list system.



His list includes everyone.
 
Holy shit, as if this could happen

We should snap their hand off and run, what a deal
 
Mourinho has a press conference later today.

We're going to get to the bottom of this one way or another then.
 
I can't see us turning down a deal involving cash plus Mata. Rooney's value is constrained by his high wages. I was expecting a straight swap offer to be honest, but this is Chelsea we are talking about here.
 
I'm sorry but I refuse to believe Chelsea offered Mata or Luiz in a part ex. It just doesn't seem genuine at all. As was mentioned earlier, I suspect an offer around the 25mil mark was made and that's what we turned down. Rightly so too.
 
Cina said:
That's not the issue though, it's perfectly logical to think Rooney could go to Chelsea and be amazing again, and he's pretty much exactly what they need. It's definitely right of the club to be cautious in that regard. He's basically their missing link and whilst Mata is amazing, he's not as essential to us as Rooney would be to them.
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It is a worry. I think it would put Chelsea as massive favorites for the title, but we would be adding a huge talent to our already outstanding squad, and we will still have our (apparently limitless) budget to pursue our midfield targets. If Rooney wasn't such a dick, i'd be a bit more against it, but I think the Rooney camp have been pulling the strings for a move to Chelsea behind the scenes for a long time, and if we let him get his wish then at least we'll be taking one of Chelsea's key players in return.
 
Brwned said:
It's almost as if they think that what happened prior to last season should be considered. Strange.
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To be fair Mata had a great season even the one before that. Not stellar like the last one, but he was great on that season too. Arguably he will become even better and is on 1/3 of Rooeny's wage. In last season he was much much better than Rooney.
 
Does anyone think Mata and Carrick could provide the base of our team in a 4231?

I don't think Mata can fill that role, and that type of midfielder we need.

I'd love to swap Mata for Rooney+£20m cash but its disingenuous to say that helps solve any of our midfield issues.
 
This is an interesting development. No idea what Chelsea are thinking.

I'm not really arsed if we see Rooney leave, if the offer is good enough - and I think this is - although I imagine the club are anticipating an improved bid, which admittedly gets the muppet juices flowing. The issue is one that we're strengthening one our rivals weakest areas. Although many of you have convinced yourselves Rooney is now a shit player, would it really surprise anyone if we get to Christmas and he's sitting top of the goalscoring charts and tearing the league up, and it dawns on us it was probably a bit hasty in begging the club to sell him (from an on-the-pitch perspective)?

I don't think either way we're making a terrible error. We either keep one of our best and most productive goalscorers or get a top player in Mata and a bit of cash. It may be a question of are the club confident of getting in the players this summer to ensure we remain at the top even against a Mourinho lead Chelsea that has been strengthened by us (in a sense - I know they're losing a player too)? If we are then go for it I guess.
 
Stickles said:
What ignorance exists around here as to how and why a club sign players?

Do we not think they research, sought out weaknesses, strengths, identify what existing and potential players may be needed to make the most of their talents, compensate for their weaknesses and set out plans for what type of player they want in each position weeks in advance of the season?


It's as if some people genuinely think it's just case of "He's brilliant, let's sign him". Plans are there for a reason and just because someone is offered it doesn't mean it's automatically sensible to completely change your identified targets for the transfer window.

Yes Mata is a world class player but if we've identified other targets we're confident of getting there's nothing unreasonable about wishing to stick to those, if that's what the club want to do. Signing a player on a whim of them being offered will alter plans and need to be considered much more beyond "He's world class".

Why do people think the club even has a scouting network and research players in the first place?
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I agree with what you are saying to an extent, but it all rather depends on whether United are basing any transfer plans on Rooney's future. If they want him to stay but he doesn't want to, the chances are he will have to go. Rather than United attempting to scrabble around for someone to fill the Rooney void, they get a proven Premier League performer with a good attitude and a playmaking potential that Rooney has struggled to replicate in the past year. He also scored 22 goals in all competitions last season....one behind Rooney.

I don't think Moyes would struggle to integrate Juan Mata into the side. He can play all across the attacking third and works fecking hard.

It's a no-brainer really.
 
sammsky1 said:
Does anyone think Mata and Carrick could provide the base of our team in a 4231?

I don't think Mata can fill that role, and that type of midfielder we need.

I'd love to swap Mata for Rooney+£20m cash but its disingenuous to say that helps solve any of our midfield issues.
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He'd take one of the 3 spots behind RVP in a 4231 I imagine. Fabregas + DM as well and we're looking very strong.
 
Carl said:
I'm sorry but I refuse to believe Chelsea offered Mata or Luiz in a part ex. It just doesn't seem genuine at all. As was mentioned earlier, I suspect an offer around the 25mil mark was made and that's what we turned down. Rightly so too.
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You just made that up though.
 
Mourinho doesn't want Mata because the player is a Benitez loyalist. Sad but true.
 
Plenty on here would have said Mata was 10m + Rooney before this
 
sammsky1 said:
Does anyone think Mata and Carrick could provide the base of our team in a 4231?

I don't think Mata can fill that role, and that type of midfielder we need.

I'd love to swap Mata for Rooney+£20m cash but its disingenuous to say that helps solve any of our midfield issues.
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It doesn't solve it but if we got Fellaini or whomever as well and stuck him behind/alongside them I think we'd have an excellent basis to go on.

In reality though I would see Mata as a solution to the left wing, not the midfield.
 
Someone remind me what the Ibrah-Eto swap deal was? Eto+50million = Ibrah?
 
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