Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

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Vasey20|13 said:
Some people here are going overboard, that's true, but the phrase 'bigger than the club' or whatever you want to call it is very much relevant.

He's being paid vast sums of money to participate in and do his best for a football club. Moyes was quoted and taking the entire quote on board, he was clearly saying Wayne is an integral part of the team.

Wayne then throws ANOTHER fit and apparently now he wants to move to Chelsea? What will happen if we don't sell? Is he gonna leak some shit to the press again next time he's dropped? Or is Moyes gonna feel forced to play him to keep the speculation away?

Why should the club accept that? He wants to be the main man and 'won't play second fiddle' to someone? With a contract he should be doing what he's fecking told. But in the world of football, he thinks he's bigger than his employers so now he can just get a move to away?

It's the equivalent to working on a bar and throwing a bitch fit because you've been asked to do an hour in the kitchen today.

If anyone was working for a company where morale, togetherness, team work and spirit were one of the main catalysts for success, what would happen to him? He'd be sacked. But then this is football, so he'll be sold. The fact that a lot of people love this 'company' dearly means a lot of people are pissed off about his behaviour. It was never going to turn out any other way.
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I like your analogy. Let's say you work in a bar and get accused of thinking you're bigger than the bar because someone doesn't like your behaviour... You wouldn't think this is just a tad fecking weird thing to say, and ultimately without much meaning. Many players have wanted to leave their club against the club's wishes - Van Persie also thought he was bigger than Arsenal by the same token.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Is the Mata thing even confirmed? Some places are saying it was 10million + Loliz.
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Because people here are morons. No confirmation if it was Mata and yet the people are quick to criticise the club.
 
Stickles said:
I suspect we'd want all cash too. The Mata offer sounds appealing to some on paper but if he's not a player we've researched, scouted, followed etc it's a bit of a gamble. A lot more goes in to identifying players for the side rather than 'Oh he's good'. Which is why scouts and coaches spend weeks/months following players getting to know how they where their strengths and weaknesses in minute detail and assessing how that would work within the team or what needs to happen to compensate/enhance whatever abilities he brings. Mata may well be world class but to just sign him on the off he's been offered may be a bit of a risk as opposed to taking a hefty financial settlement and using that to fund players you've already identified that you want.
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You must be a WUM. There is no other explanation for it.

You do realise that this post suggests that nobody out our club watches Premiership football right?
 
shaggy said:
Mata doesn't need to be researched, scouted or followed. He's a quality player
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Of course he does. He's quality but he'll have strengths and weaknesses like everyone else and how they'll fit into our team, how they'll improve it, which areas we may have to compensate for etc will all need to be considered. If we've identified the sort of players we're looking for in that area and Mata isn't one of them it'd be perfectly understandable if we at the very least wanted time to consider the proposal and see if it would be potentially worth altering the plans for next season as a result of signing him.
 
TheRisingSun said:
Mata is worth 25 million? We paid 23.5 million for him. What planet are you on?
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Sigh. Did i say he was ONLY worth £25m? No.

You know it's funny to see some of you trying to jump on every little word.

Just remember that your club have offered him AND £10m for a player who is currently supposedly valued at £25m. Remember that before you snipe at everyone elses valuation of him.
 
KM said:
Because people here are morons. No confirmation if it was Mata and yet the people are quick to criticise the club.
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To be fair, I think most criticism has come with the addendum of 'if the bid is real' ...

Someone made an excellent point that if this was Mata, then Chelsea would be seriously undervaluing him, and probably below what they initially paid for him.
 
With all the shenanigans going on, Rooney should be sold sooner rather than later. If the player doesnt see his role in the team and doesnt want to play then he should go. Thanks for what he has contributed and the memories.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
You must be a WUM. There is no other explanation for it.

You do realise that this post suggests that nobody out our club watches Premiership football right?
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No my post suggests the club might just take a more sophisticated view other than "Wow he's brilliant!!" and might not want to disregard the plans for the season and the targets already identified for central midfield on the basis that someone else has suddenly just been offered.
 
Vasey20|13 said:
Sigh. Did i say he was ONLY worth £25m? No.

You know it's funny to see some of you trying to jump on every little word.

Just remember that your club have offered him AND £10m for a player who is currently supposedly valued at £25m. Remember that before you snipe at everyone elses valuation of him.
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I don't believe that we have.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
To be fair, I think most criticism has come with the addendum of 'if the bid is real' ...

Someone made an excellent point that if this was Mata, then Chelsea would be seriously undervaluing him, and probably below what they initially paid for him.
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Or Chelsea know that we value Rooney a lot higher than the fees banded around (which we obviously do).
 
Vasey20|13 said:
Where did i say that?

Rooney is worth £35m. People saying he's worth the same now as what we paid for him are deluded. You see Fabregas' value has gone up despite him not being amazing for the last few years. You see the Cavani's and Falcao's going for ridiculous amounts.

Mata for me is worth £25m easily. But Chelsea are a club with money to burn and he's apparently not wanted there. They would sacrifice Mata for Rooney i think, even if they sold him for miles less than his value. This is a club that's put managers in on huge contracts and paid them millions and millions of pounds to get rid of them because they've lost a few games in a row before now. If they want Rooney that badly we should make the deal a LOT better in our favour considering the situation and the fact that we don't want to sell him to a direct rival.
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This is utter nonsense. How is Rooney worth £10m more than Mata at the moment? He's not worth anymore than Mata. Mata's had a much better season than Rooney, he's more influential to his club, he doesn't seem to desperately want to leave the club like Rooney does and he's younger than Rooney so will have more years left in him. There's nothing to suggest Rooney is worth more at the moment.
 
Stickles said:
I suspect we'd want all cash too. The Mata offer sounds appealing to some on paper but if he's not a player we've researched, scouted, followed etc it's a bit of a gamble. A lot more goes in to identifying players for the side rather than 'Oh he's good'. Which is why scouts and coaches spend weeks/months following players getting to know how they where their strengths and weaknesses in minute detail and assessing how that would work within the team or what needs to happen to compensate/enhance whatever abilities he brings. Mata may well be world class but to just sign him on the off he's been offered may be a bit of a risk as opposed to taking a hefty financial settlement and using that to fund players you've already identified that you want.
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:wenger:
 
Vasey20|13 said:
Where did i say that?

Rooney is worth £35m. People saying he's worth the same now as what we paid for him are deluded. You see Fabregas' value has gone up despite him not being amazing for the last few years. You see the Cavani's and Falcao's going for ridiculous amounts.

Mata for me is worth £25m easily. But Chelsea are a club with money to burn and he's apparently not wanted there. They would sacrifice Mata for Rooney i think, even if they sold him for miles less than his value. This is a club that's put managers in on huge contracts and paid them millions and millions of pounds to get rid of them because they've lost a few games in a row before now. If they want Rooney that badly we should make the deal a LOT better in our favour considering the situation and the fact that we don't want to sell him to a direct rival.
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Where do caftards get this idea that Mata isn't wanted at Chelsea?

Mata is worth as much as Rooney, and probably even more at this point. He is three years younger and, unlike Rooney, is coming off his best season yet and arguably is going to get even better. I'm fairly sure he is on much smaller wages than Rooney, has a terrific attitude and is quite happy to stay at his current club. Mata has been CFC's best player last season. He'd be the last player Chelsea will look to move.
 
KM said:
Because people here are morons. No confirmation if it was Mata and yet the people are quick to criticise the club.
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Ah Ok. So the meltdown/excitement has been rather pointless. Chelsea aren't dumb, they will not be offering Mata (their most effective creator) + cash for Rooney.

Most likely to be Luiz and Chelsea are really taking the piss with that one. Embarrassing bid from them.

In any case I don't think Mata is what we need anyway.
 
People saying don't accept Luiz either, I mean, Luiz and Mata and money would be a great deal. Luiz would be decent defensive midfield cover and decent defensive cover. Can't see the problem myself. Mata would probably be a starter, giving us more possession based play up top. Fabregas linking with Mata and RVP? feck me.
 
Adzzz said:
People saying don't accept Luiz either, I mean, Luiz and Mata and money would be a great deal. Luiz would be decent defensive midfield cover and decent defensive cover. Can't see the problem myself. Mata would probably be a starter, giving us more possession based play up top. Fabregas linking with Mata and RVP? feck me.
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We'd be lucky to get money + Mata so there's absolutely no way we'll get Mata + Muiz + money. It'd be an incredible deal if we did.
 
If Rooney wants to leave, then there's no point keeping him. His heart won't be in it. He won't apply himself in the same way. For that, I'd take Mata or Luiz plus cash. I'd also continue playing Luiz in midfield if that was the case. He's very similar to Fellaini, including the stupid hair. Big gangly lad, can score goals and can be a proper nasty shit. Looks to be a better midfielder than centre back, though his defending has definitely improved.

I'd prefer Mata though. Kagawa, Mata and Nani/Zaha behind RvP? Excellent. Still need a CM though.

The Luiz or Mata plus cash bid seems far fetched. Has it been confirmed as official?
 
Stickles said:
No my post suggests the club might just take a more sophisticated view other than "Wow he's brilliant!!" and might not want to disregard the plans for the season and the targets already identified for central midfield on the basis that someone else has suddenly just been offered.
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Then I would question our clubs adaptability/reaction to change. It's all well and good having a plan, but things very rarely go to plan, and surely we're a club that reacts when new opportunities arise.

You don't need to have scouted Mata to know he's a quality player. He's easily one of the best players in the league - certainly in the top 5. Saying we don't "need" him is a bit like saying we didn't "need" RVP last summer... he is a top quality player and would improve our side without question. Who doesn't "need" such improvements?!

Again, I'd like to point out that I don't think Mata was offered however,
 
Cheesy said:
We'd be lucky to get money + Mata so there's absolutely no way we'll get Mata + Muiz + money. It'd be an incredible deal if we did.
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Don't get me wrong, Sideshow Bob isn't a top priority but Mata and Him and 10,000,000 just about cover my price for Rooney.
 
Cheesy said:
This is utter nonsense. How is Rooney worth £10m more than Mata at the moment? He's not worth anymore than Mata. Mata's had a much better season than Rooney, he's more influential to his club, he doesn't seem to desperately want to leave the club like Rooney does and he's younger than Rooney so will have more years left in him. There's nothing to suggest Rooney is worth more at the moment.
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I swear no-one on here can see context ffs.

In this deal, where it's been rumoured Mourinho doesn't want him there, but they desperately want Rooney, for a club like Chelsea, i think we could get £25m + Mata for Rooney. They have money to throw away. They spunked £50m on an out of form Torres. They sign managers up on massive long term deals and then sack them on whims. You really think it's beyond the realms of possibility that we could get that?

What is Rooney worth if Anzhi come in for him? £25m? Nope, more like £50m. Context.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
:wenger:
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What ignorance exists around here as to how and why a club sign players?

Do we not think they research, sought out weaknesses, strengths, identify what existing and potential players may be needed to make the most of their talents, compensate for their weaknesses and set out plans for what type of player they want in each position weeks in advance of the season?


It's as if some people genuinely think it's just case of "He's brilliant, let's sign him". Plans are there for a reason and just because someone is offered it doesn't mean it's automatically sensible to completely change your identified targets for the transfer window.

Yes Mata is a world class player but if we've identified other targets we're confident of getting there's nothing unreasonable about wishing to stick to those, if that's what the club want to do. Signing a player on a whim of them being offered will alter plans and need to be considered much more beyond "He's world class".

Why do people think the club even has a scouting network and research players in the first place?
 
Cheesy said:
We'd be lucky to get money + Mata so there's absolutely no way we'll get Mata + Muiz + money. It'd be an incredible deal if we did.
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How about we offer Rooney plus 5 million for Mata and Luiz?

To be fair I'd take Mata in a straight swap for Rooney because I think Mata is twice the player Rooney is.
 
Stickles said:
What ignorance exists around here as to how and why a club sign players?

Do we not think they research, sought out weaknesses, strengths, identify what existing and potential players may be needed to make the most of their talents, compensate for their weaknesses and set out plans for what type of player they want in each position weeks in advance of the season?


It's as if some people genuinely think it's just case of "He's brilliant, let's sign him". Plans are there for a reason and just because someone is offered it doesn't mean it's automatically sensible to completely change your identified targets for the transfer window.

Yes Mata is a world class player but if we've identified other targets we're confident of getting there's nothing unreasonable about wishing to stick to those, if that's what the club want to do. Signing a player on a whim of them being offered will alter plans and need to be considered much more beyond "He's world class".

Why do people think the club even has a scouting network and research players in the first place?
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How do you think SAF thought out buying RVP last year?
 
Vasey20|13 said:
I think if he doesn't hand one in and we want to sell, we have to pay his contract up.

I think Rooney has been grossly undervalued by everyone and their mother. Rooney is easily worth a lot more than £25m. I hate the cnut but he's still a phenomenal footballer. He's worth £35m easily in this climate. £25m + Mata would be good business.
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We bought a 29 year old RVP with only one year on his contract for £24m. Given that, Rooney is worth £40m in my opinion, especially given the "English and PL proven" premium and that we'd be selling to a club like Chelsea who need and want him.

Mata is in the £25-30m mark. So, Mata plus 15m+ would be a fair deal. More than that, and we gain extra value, which is what we should aim for, given the club claims we have no need to sell him.
 
Rooney is more marketable than both, especially being English and the World Cup coming up, the club will be thinking about this during any possible transfer. It won't have been Mata either, nowhere has mentioned Mata alone whereas there are a few mentions of it just having been Luiz which makes sense as they have Oscar and Hazard now. Chelsea aren't stupid unlike a lot of the muppets on the Caf.
 
Stickles said:
What ignorance exists around here as to how and why a club sign players?

Do we not think they research, sought out weaknesses, strengths, identify what existing and potential players may be needed to make the most of their talents, compensate for their weaknesses and set out plans for what type of player they want in each position weeks in advance of the season?


It's as if some people genuinely think it's just case of "He's brilliant, let's sign him". Plans are there for a reason and just because someone is offered it doesn't mean it's automatically sensible to completely change your identified targets for the transfer window.

Yes Mata is a world class player but if we've identified other targets we're confident of getting there's nothing unreasonable about wishing to stick to those, if that's what the club want to do. Signing a player on a whim of them being offered will alter plans and need to be considered much more beyond "He's world class".

Why do people think the club even has a scouting network and research players in the first place?
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Like when Fergie signed Cantona?
 
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