Christ on a bike, you're just saying the same things over and over. This is pointless.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
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Christ on a bike, you're just saying the same things over and over. This is pointless.
It may have been his best but the standard was not good enough that is the problem so I agree with you there. Van Persie and Roooney can really alternate in a given game between each one being the 9 or 10. Which MOTM game are we talking about ? I am hoping its not Stoke he really didn't play that well in that game. I agree lack of consistency is a part of his game.
No i'm asking you. Your not really making any point to be fair. Apparently he played well behind Van Persie and when he was moved out of position for Kagawa he struggled. That is untrue. I'm unsure what your opinion actually is and where it stems from???
Why won't you stop?
From watching him play? is there some other way to judge a players performances that I haven't discovered yet?
Your
I'm talking to you aren't I? Am I meant to say me or him? Anyway my point is he has not played well enough behind Van Persie this season that is why he has been played out of position.
I can't actually remember the game now that you mention it - it was about a month before the Stoke game (as I agree I thought he was massively over-rated in that game).
Your
You're! Y o u apostrophe r e. You are. It's really not that difficult.
Yeah I figured that out that 10th time you said it.
First half of the season, often either one or both were injured at the same time. On the odd occasion they both started, Kagawa started on the left. Second half of the season if they both started, Kagawa would start left. Real Madrid away, and Aston Villa at home, is the only games I can remember that when both started,Kagawa played behind Van Persie,with Rooney playing in midfield or on the right.
Oh sorry mate I didn't know what you where on about I thought you where anoyed I was saying they are your
opinions. You're making perfect sense now.People are really exagerrating how often Rooney was shifted around last season, the vast majority of games he started as a number 10 behind Van Persie.
Disagree mate, as a winger he was poor but in midfield he played some of his best football IMO.
The only three games I remember him playing as a CM were Stoke, Aston Villa and West Ham. In the first two he was excellent, he got MOTM against Stoke for example. Against West Ham he was alright but it was a mental line up with Jones playing as an attacking midfielder, really wierd game.
In the other two he was great though.
Disagree mate, as a winger he was poor but in midfield he played some of his best football IMO.
The only three games I remember him playing as a CM were Stoke, Aston Villa and West Ham. In the first two he was excellent, he got MOTM against Stoke for example. Against West Ham he was alright but it was a mental line up with Jones playing as an attacking midfielder, really wierd game.
In the other two he was great though.
Interesting weren't Carrick and Jones in midfield and Rooney behind Van Persie. Kagawa and Rooney kept dropping deep because Carrick and Jones could not get the ball up into the final third. Rooney for me plays quite a mature game out wide. In centre mid he is prone to jogging around aimlessly and playing a lot of Hollywood passes.
I did say myself he was better in midfield than out wide, maybe "poor" was overstating it, it was more so to highlight that he wasn't as good there as in his usual position.
You talking about West Ham here?
If so, that is what everyone expecting to happen - it would be Jones and Carrick in CM with Rooney as an AM behind Van Persie.
But in reality Jones went completely walkabout and was way up the pitch, even higher than Rooney, but he just didn't get involved in the game.
There is a picture of the average positions for each player in that match and it's the most mental thing I've ever seen, it's probably in the thread somewhere. Basically Carrick was significantly deeper than Rooney, but Jones was the furthest forward. Like I said, it was a really wierd game and that's why I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from it.
Edit - Found that picture, Cina is the one who posted it
Stoke away Van Persie and Hernandez up top with Kagawa on the left, Rooney in midfield. West ham on paper 4231 with Rooney behind Van Persie with Kagawa on the left, but in reality Jones was usually advanced of Rooney,with Rooney dropping very deep.
Yeah, are you disagreeing with me somewhere?
That's pretty much what I said man, he was in midfield in those three games, but that the West Ham game was such a bizzare match that we shouldn't draw much from it. Jones played such a strange role in that game and Rooney seemed to be trying to play two positions at once.
I don't think so.
You talking about West Ham here?
If so, that is what everyone expecting to happen - it would be Jones and Carrick in CM with Rooney as an AM behind Van Persie.
But in reality Jones went completely walkabout and was way up the pitch, even higher than Rooney, but he just didn't get involved in the game.
There is a picture of the average positions for each player in that match and it's the most mental thing I've ever seen, it's probably in the thread somewhere. Basically Carrick was significantly deeper than Rooney, but Jones was the furthest forward. Like I said, it was a really wierd game and that's why I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from it.
Edit - Found that picture, Cina is the one who posted it
Yeah the West Ham game. I remember very frustrating to watch, Jones has a tendency of getting more forward than Rooney when he is in midfield he did it against Arsenal also. I wonder what his instructions are because he doesn't have that on the ball quality in the final third so the midfield was not linking with the front two whenever he and Carrick tried to pass it through the lines. He completely disjointed the team in that game. Carrick and Jones could not get the ball to Rooney and Kagwa so they kept dropping deep and that just left Van Persie isolated.
I think he was told to play there by Fergie, not sure why though.
We have seen Jones play CM and burst forward before e.g. QPR and Villa away the season before, but it was nothing like this West Ham game. Against West Ham he just wasn't playing midfield, it was much more similar to Reading away when he got subbed on and played as the number 10 behind Van Persie.
Pretty much the exact same tactic and the same result as well, against Reading he was really unsuited to the role and it was the same against West Ham like you say.
I don't mind him in midfield at all but an attacking midfielder is pushing it a bit..
It's not so much the entire station but rather specific presenters or programmes, this propaganda piece from Keys and Gray stands out:
http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/130509/exclusive-–-andy-gray-wayne-rooney’s-desire-leave-manchester-united-down-1972
After having listening to it again and read some of the posts i have missed in recent hours, i feel obliged to ask if Richard Keys is among us on here?
I agree he brings energy to the role. But isn't he there mainly to break up play??? In those cases surely Carrick has to contribute more to the attack. He does get on the end of chances running in late. But when you need that composure on the ball he really struggles in that aspect. Kagawa in that game keep dropping deep to get a touch also he was meant to be on the left and someone Rio I think played a ball over the top and nobody was there.
Rooney also played central midfielder against Newcastle (0-3 away) in the league and he did well. In the Champions League, he played as a central midfielder against Cluj (away), where he bossed the game and provided two assists, one from open play. And he started in midfield against Braga away, where he put in a good performance and showed his skills as a central midfielder.
Oh yeah I agree with the problems for Carrick, Kagawa and Rio in that West Ham game (Rooney, too). But that was because he wasn't playing next to Carrick in midfield, he was off somewhere in the other end of the pitch playing as a number 10, like against Reading.
Both of those games should just be forgotten about/ignored IMO, we aren't going to learn anything from them because they were so mental and different to anything we would usually expect. Jones will never be an attacking midfielder.
In terms of the central midfield debate though I think he's fine. He still lacks a bit of technical quality but he isn't as desperate as some make him out to be IMO. His passing is decent enough and he could be trusted to keep possession with simple balls, the responsibility will be on Carrick to play more progressively but he does that anyway so I don't see it as a huge issue.
Not sure about Newcastle and Cluj to be honest.
That was when we were experimenting with the diamond and in both cases he was at the tip, which is attacking midfielder and pretty much where he always plays. It certainly isn't central midfield IMO. Anderson, Cleverley and Fletcher were in CM against Cluj with Fletch holding, and against Newcastle it was Kagawa, Clev and Carrick with Carrick holding - both times Rooney was the number 10.
Exactly how I remember it. Clev to the left, Carrick Center, Kagawa right and Rooney at the tip of the diamond. Besides a couples of games during the end of the season, don't think Rooney really featured in the central midfield in any games.
Yeah, in both games he wasn't a pure central midfielder, but in the second half of both games (and at times, the first half), he dropped very deep and played more of a central midfielder. It all depends on interpretations IMO, but I would definitely class his performances, in the second half to be specific, to be that of a central midfielder. And to be fair to Rooney, he did play very well in the role. There was also the game against Newcastle in the Capital One Cup, where he played the attacking midfielder, if I remember correctly. He looked sharp in this position and if anything, it does illustrate that he's more suited to a midfield three, rather than a midfield two.
I think Rooney playing in other roles other than upfront/off the striker is over played, there were a fair few games where he played very high. But to be fair in the diamond ones although he may have started at the tip when we didnt have the ball he had to get in right alongside whoever was holding, so that would have an impact.
Here is Rooney's performance vs Newcastle away at the tip of the diamond. Yes, on paper he is at the tip but during the game he is very deep and gets through a lot of defensive work. You don't see many attacking midfielders tracking and tackling players like Ben Arfa closer to your own goal. Excellent performance anyway, he was everywhere.
The Cluj game he completed 95 passes which again shows that he played deeper. You can't expect him to score 30 a season when he's going through midfield work like that.
And here is his performance in the capital one cup against Newcastle as well.
This has nothing to do with the Rooney Transfer discussion, and it's not especially relevant, but I found it interesting reading what Ferguson said about Rooney in February 2010, about 6 months before shit hit the fan. Talks about Rooney the player, how he's changed, and his temperament.
Pretty relevant IMO.
I suppose, yeah.
I think Fergie was genuinely shocked by what happened with Rooney in Autumn 2010. He talks above about him being an old school player not guided by agents, and of the relationship they enjoy. That press conference when SAF looked devastated, he emphasized he'd never had a falling out with Rooney. It just seems like he was not expecting it at all.
The whole interview if anyone's interested
I think Fergie was genuinely shocked by what happened with Rooney in Autumn 2010. He talks above about him being an old school player not guided by agents, and of the relationship they enjoy. That press conference when SAF looked devastated, he emphasized he'd never had a falling out with Rooney. It just seems like he was not expecting it at all.
The whole interview if anyone's interested
Normally, I'm very reluctant to put any faith in transfer rumors linking players to Chelsea, but somehow I feel there's more to it in Rooney's case. I have a feeling that he's actually seriously considering coming to CFC. He just doesn't seem the type to go abroad, but I bet him and Colleen would like to move to London. He has friends at Chelsea, Mourinho is a known admirer, SAF is gone and Rooney's still young enough to start over somewhere else.
Now, that doesn't mean United would even entertain the idea of selling him to Chelsea, but I do believe he contemplates it. I doubt Arsenal is interested due to financial issues involved in such a deal.
Now, that doesn't mean United would even entertain the idea of selling him to Chelsea, but I do believe he contemplates it. I doubt Arsenal is interested due to financial issues involved in such a deal.
If you have a spare twenty minutes or so and a tolerant nature the Monday Night Club ha a discussion the Rooney saga last night:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b02yk96d
If you forward to 1:06.20 approx it is from then onwards.
Utter dimwitery from Claridge, Mirror journo given free reign, BBC presenter implying that Fergie didn't care if he gave Moyes problems and more.
Liverpool's Gary Gillespie talked the most sense by my reckoning.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b02yk96d
If you forward to 1:06.20 approx it is from then onwards.
Utter dimwitery from Claridge, Mirror journo given free reign, BBC presenter implying that Fergie didn't care if he gave Moyes problems and more.
Liverpool's Gary Gillespie talked the most sense by my reckoning.
Only a guess, but I wonder if Stretford & co have promised certain media outlets (the Mirror, Talksport etc) Rooney-exclusives in exchange for "good" press?
It might not even be that premeditated and just a natural impulse but i wouldn't be surprised to learn that Stretford had dropped a few hints.
United supporting or not i normally find Mark Chapman [the regular host of the Monday Night Club] far too unimaginative and passive a presenter, however at least he has questioned Ian McGarry about some of his paper's reporting on occasion. It would have been interesting to hear the same interrogation of Andy Dunn after the Mirror's singular approach to its coverage of the rumours.
United supporting or not i normally find Mark Chapman [the regular host of the Monday Night Club] far too unimaginative and passive a presenter, however at least he has questioned Ian McGarry about some of his paper's reporting on occasion. It would have been interesting to hear the same interrogation of Andy Dunn after the Mirror's singular approach to its coverage of the rumours.
Gough: "Rooney would have a starring role at Barcelona."
That wasn't even the worst thing he said.
"Moving to Arsenal would be a sideways move."
Maybe Carrick should go there then.
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