That's my point of view as well. I'm only not that fussed about it. When he asked for a transfer in 2010 I felt betrayed, now I simply don't care that much. It's a combination of his contribution being inconsistant, us signing a better player in van Persie and his general cuntishness.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter gooDevil
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Rooney has one of the best records in world football in the champions league, and up until 2010/11 he was second behind Messi I think in top goal scorers in the knockout stages. Get your facts straight before you try and make arguments. Since then United have been awful in the champions league, so Rooney's hardly had much of an opportunity to improve that don't you think? Van Persie has a worse off record than Rooney in the Champions League as well. Does he fall short as well then?
If you actually rewatch most of the games last season, you would see that Rooney was actually pretty good in the vast majority of them. His problem was that he had many smaller injuries where he would be out for a month, than back for a month, then out for another 2-3 weeks. There were a decent amount of games where he played a key role for us, but he never had the chance to do it consistently as he has done in each of the other 9 seasons he has been with us. Think back to 11/12, where he basically carried us goal scoring wise to the position we were in at the end of the season (The same amount of points as last season, more goals both for the team and individually more then RVP). He was consistently scoring all throughout the season, even though he wasn't the main striker the majority of the time.
In 2010/11, he had all the contract shit in the first half of the season, but when he came back, he was brilliant until the end of the season and that Rooney, playing in the #10 position behind Hernandez, was one of the best Rooney's we've seen. He was brilliant throughout all of 2011 and really helped give us the extra push to win the title and reach the Champions league final, which he was one of our only 2 players who performed to an acceptable standard in.
It's ridiculous how so many people on here are so quick to write off a player like Rooney, who's given so much to United over the last 10 years, in one of our most successful periods in our history. He's the 4th top goal scorer in United's all time history and you have the audacity to say that he's failed in the number 10 position. Unbelievable.
Edit: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...layer--Champions-League-record-proves-it.html
Here are the stats. He hasn't had the chance to add to those totals as well, since 2011 since we've been shite in europe these last 2 years, compared to the amount of goals Ronaldo and Messi both scored.
We'll see how he performs should he remain at United.
Oh, you musn't use "cnut". I got hauled up on that by cina! (I did apologise though).
Why is every other post in this thread an essay; do people even read those?
Anyway, I'm pretty much indifferent to this. I think if he stays, Moyes would probably be able to get him more fit than he usually is; but I can see why him leaving might be better for both sides. And if he does leave, I'd prefer he stay in England, even though that means going to one of our rivals, because it would better for the league to keep it's best players. Besides, Rooney isn't the type of person to think about relocating to a foreign country in my opinion.
Anyway, I'm pretty much indifferent to this. I think if he stays, Moyes would probably be able to get him more fit than he usually is; but I can see why him leaving might be better for both sides. And if he does leave, I'd prefer he stay in England, even though that means going to one of our rivals, because it would better for the league to keep it's best players. Besides, Rooney isn't the type of person to think about relocating to a foreign country in my opinion.
Why on earth does it seem to matter what type of people they are? Look at Giggs. He's perceived as one of the most loyal players around, as a legend to United, but that didn't stop him from having an affair with his brothers wife for 9 years, did it (if reports are to be believed, of course, although no denial says there is some truth). People expect footballers to be some perfect human beings, with no faults, who don't give a feck about the money if its decent pay and are entirely thankful to the club. They expect them not to go out at night, not to have parties or anything, when us 'normal' people do that most weekends.
People really need to get their head out of their ass if they think players are like that, because that is the case for a very small percentage of footballers these days.
How many United players do you think would stay if we were in Liverpool's position for example? Very few, and none of the top ones for sure. Being a United player for Rooney, and most of the United team, is just that, a part of the team. They aren't at their boyhood club, or a club they dreamed of playing at from a young age. They are here for the trophies and personal success so they will be remembered. Rooney last season was being shifted around every position in the attack every other game, and was dropped for our biggest game of the season, and was put on the right wing to perform a Ji-Sung Park job on Ronaldo pretty much in the other. You can't say he should be grateful to Sir Alex for giving him that role, surely? He was perfectly in his rights to go to the manager and complain about being shifted around everywhere, dropped plenty of times, and be treated like a lesser player, when he isn't.
Ok, when people are making me look sane when posting on Rooney its time to close this until we have some concrete news either way.....
I would like to say/think the same but I've just grown to dislike the guy. I just hope he has a good start to next season for all our sakes.
Every player has dips in form, most of the time class will shine through (particularly with a player who still has a bit of youth on his side).
Even though he's not been his classic best last season he has obviously still managed to make a decent contribution.
Personally, I hope he stays and that he gets back to his best, and I'd be willing to keep him even if the risk is that he stays at the level he showed last year.
I couldn't give a shit how much we could potentially get for him, how much money he earns, or what the papers would have you believe about him though. At his best he is a world class player, at his worst, he still contributes. All things considered I'd guess he will get back to some sort of form, hence I'd like to keep him.
If he were to go to Chelsea and fire them to a league title, there would be an awful lot of people looking awfully stupid.
To a degree you are right, lets take Giggsy for example, what he did shouldn't be of any interest to a Utd supporter as it doesn't effect what he does on the pitch, quite right, couldn't agree more. I will disagree with your point about not expecting players to be out late and having parties as too much of that certainly WILL have an effect on what they do on the pitch. They are paid not only to be footballers but to maintain there bodies at an absolute peak. Being overweight would not be any handicap in my job, it would to a footballer, can you imagine trying to train to a premier league standard with a raging hangover!?! Especially when you take into consideration that most footballers are able to retire in their early thirties should they wish and still be young enough to party all they like. (This is not directed at any player in particular, just arguing that one point in general)
The press are the problem, both in glorifying players and then publicly criticising them when they "misbehave". This is why, when Rooney was reported as "demanding" an apology, I didn't react like this:
Why do people continue with nonsensical exaggerations and untruths like this one though? Please when was the "plenty of times" he was dropped and shifted around everywhere and treated like a less player, which let's be honest, compared to RVP this season, he was? Like Fergie intentionally mistreated him and the few times he was actually dropped were for no reason YOU couldn't care about Rooney's value, but the Glazers own the club (good or bad) so it's up to them, based on Moyes' decision. Economic pragmatism plays a significant part, whether we as fans like it or not, which is why Ronaldo is probably a no-go this summer. The Glazers will view Rooney as a partly-depreciated asset and if there were to be a good offer, I'm sure Moyes would be asked if he definitely wanted to keep Rooney.
I agree that if they want to be at the very top, depending on their ambition, then they shouldn't be out partying all the time and drinking. Ronaldo is an example of that. None of us know Rooney though, and it is a bit childish to judge him or get pissed off at him for going out and having fun, because if he wants to do that than go ahead. It might hamper him a little bit, but apart from being dropped that one time for that Blackburn game, how many times has this happened? I can't remember any others at least.
I'm pretty sure I remember a post from a while back where by Kagawa was only used on the left on the very odd occasion, certainly he had to rotate to the left far less than Rooney had to rotate to midfield.
I'm not saying Ferguson was wrong in the things he did, but it is within Rooney's rights to complain if he feels like he isn't being used properly or he's being wasted. He was dropped for the home game against Madrid right after he had the great game against Norwich, along with Kagawa who scored a hat-trick in favour of Welbeck, to play behind the striker for the first time, even though Welbeck was having a bit of a poor season (even though yes, he was probably MotM that game). How would you feel if you're the 4th leading goal scorer in United's history, in a pretty good run of form and then for the two biggest games of the season, you are shifted out to the right wing to play a covering role and then dropped altogether in the other game? Like I said before, his performances for the most part this season weren't that bad for the most part, until the end of the season. His only really poor performance until March time was against Swansea, but every other game he actually played pretty well in.
That's the only time I can think of, bar coming back from the summer a little out of shape a few times.
Kagawa was on the left most of the time when he played, and only started in the hole a handful of times. Rooney was rotated more though, hardly ever playing in the same position two games in a row. He was being rotated on the left, or through the middle, or the right, or back in a deeper role all throughout the season and it is hard to get any kind of consistency when you are rotated so much. Add in all the injuries and little knocks he got and you can see why he had a below par season.
I just want to see Rooney being hungry, fitting fit and wanting to win more than anything like he used too.
When he is playing at his best he is almost unstoppable, but we did not see anywhere near enough of it last year.
Fingers crossed he changes it this year.
When he is playing at his best he is almost unstoppable, but we did not see anywhere near enough of it last year.
Fingers crossed he changes it this year.
How many United games did you watch exactly? Kagawa spent mininum 70% of his time on the left wing. In fact, whenever Rooney started, Kagawa was automatically shunted wide.
Even when Kagawa was on the left, he pretty much always drifted into the middle, it's not like he was being asked to play the role of a winger there, where as Rooney was forced to play as a midfielder and do more defensively, sometimes even having to man mark players constantly.
I'm not talking about their personal lives. I'm specifically talking about how their football personas are perceived by United fans. Nothing to do with personal life. Next time ask a clarifying question so you can save yourself some time.
Yeah, people take this 'unprofessional' thing out of proportion sometimes, no doubt because of the media constantly putting out stories that Rooney wants to leave every transfer window for the past 3 years. It makes people believe the stuff, and when things happen like what happened at the end of last season where Sir Alex said that he wants to leave, then people automatically believe all the stories that were written about him in the past few years, how he always planned on leaving and was always unprofessional.
Same shit, different day, I wish this would just get sorted one way or the other, personally I'd prefer that we sold him but at this point I just want this nonsense concluded.
Rooney played minimum 50% of the time behind either RVP or Hernandez. Probably much more. Most of the other time, he played as the front man, which isn't a much different role when playing for United.
Rooney only played a handful of games as a winger/cm, so you can't claim that he's been tossed out of his comfort zone this season.
Rooney didn't play so well behind him that is why he was moved back he tends to be sloppy and inconsistent things you don't want in your no.10. Rooney was not moved because of the team it was because he was not doing well himself so Fergie wanted to keep him in and get Kagawa on.He had no problem playing Kagawa on the left and he would have continued doing so if Rooney was at his best. Rooney is best as a no.9 now. He has been playing poorly since last year but he manages to always score which is why he is best upfront now. He played mostly upfront and things didn't come together with him this year.
It wasn't directly a response to you, more to all the people in general who seem to care so much about what he does in his personal life. For what it's worth, I'm not exactly sure what he did that can make his footballing persona seem like a cnut. He asked to leave the club after 9 great seasons, and being the 4th all time goalscorer in our history. I understand people feel betrayed because they thought he'd retire here and become our all time top goalscorer, but there's no need to hate him because he wants a change. What he did in 2010 came off bad yes, but I feel like that was more to do with his agent giving him bad advice and things just got out of hand. He apologised for that both on and off the pitch many times, and the second half of that season he was undoubtedly world class, which for me at least, made up for it.
I mean don't misunderstand me, I cannt stand him, never have been able to and never wanted him signed in the first place, but now that Im at least trying to be a little more rational, there are as many reasons to keep him as there are to get rid, I do think the way he went about getting his pay rise was disrespectful, (Assuming john o'sheas book is accurate) and I do think he is a bit of a prima donna, and IF the talks with SaF are true and he was whining about being subbed and dropped that's just pathetic, don't like it? Buckle down and make yourself undroppable. But when on form, he is a quality player who can more often than not be counted on to pop up with a goal or assist when required. I don't think Rooney is as good as Rooney thinks he is, and I certainly don't think we'd fall to bits if he left as some are suggesting.
But in all honesty I think 99% of people will automatically believe SAF over pretty much any player. I know I would.
And if that is genuinely the reason and he comes out and says that Im sure most, myself included will say fair play, thanks for the 9 years, and good luck. It all depends on how he goes about it.
I agree. He doesn't necessarily have to say it, but if he does leave, a lot will depend where he goes. If he goes to another team in England while having offers abroad, then it will clearly be because of the money (if it is Chelsea of course). Going to a team abroad would probably show that he has some respect for United at least, and he just wanted a change somewhere. That's how I see it at least. Don't think he'll end up leaving though.
With respect to your previous post, I don't think anyone thinks you like Rooney now, even if you've gone a little soft on him, don't worry.
Also I think we would obviously be worse off without a player of his quality, we wouldn't be fecked or anything. We were fine when Ronaldo left, finishing a point away from the title and had a great season in the champions league that year as well, being unlucky to get knocked out. The next season we won the prem and got to the final. So I'm sure we'd be fine if Rooney left, considering how we've done with Ronaldo leaving. I'd prefer him not to though.
What are you basing this on? Rooney played his best football behind RvP, it's in midfield and out wide he (unsurprisingly) had more of his poor games. Seems like you're just remembering what you want to remember.
You keep talking about how often Rooney had to play in midfield, according to whoscored it was ony twice the entire season.
His general play why he has fallen out of favour. His play is sloppy and inconsistent. He actually plays a mature game out on the left he drops deep and helps Evra while making himself open to passes and neat one two's he scored his winner against Fulham from outwide. He did not play deep as often as people want to make out, he was there on occasion but he struggled to impose himself behind Van Persie at times so Fergie brought in Kagawa and moved Rooney deeper. He didn't move an in form Wayne Rooney to accommodate Shinji Kagawa.
I agree. He doesn't necessarily have to say it, but if he does leave, a lot will depend where he goes. If he goes to another team in England while having offers abroad, then it will clearly be because of the money (if it is Chelsea of course). Going to a team abroad would probably show that he has some respect for United at least, and he just wanted a change somewhere. That's how I see it at least. Don't think he'll end up leaving though.
With respect to your previous post, I don't think anyone thinks you like Rooney now, even if you've gone a little soft on him, don't worry.
Also I think we would obviously be worse off without a player of his quality, we wouldn't be fecked or anything. We were fine when Ronaldo left, finishing a point away from the title and had a great season in the champions league that year as well, being unlucky to get knocked out. The next season we won the prem and got to the final. So I'm sure we'd be fine if Rooney left, considering how we've done with Ronaldo leaving. I'd prefer him not to though.
Yeah, I hated him before hating him was cool, now everyone wants to be like me.......its tough being a trendsetter
Nah Rooney's terrible out wide more often than not. his best position is behind the man striker where all his strengths are effectively utilized
Stopped there.
he was terrible out left, not sure what you were watching.
I can only remember two games that he started in midfield, it surely wasn't much more than that. He may have been moved back to midfield on a few other occasions but it was definitely a rare occurrence.
He has always known how to play out there since the Ronaldo days i'm not sure what YOUR watching he is better there than in cm. He can drop back and get stuck in like he likes and he can come in on his right foot and also deliver good crosses. I think your suggesting Ferguson dropped him further back JUST because of Kagawa which is wrong. He was playing poorly but is too good to be dropped so was being shoe horned into the side. Also he played deep more than twice in the season.
Stop that.
I didn't say that, I said it was partly that, and also because we are lacking in our midfield.
If he was better there I'd have expected him to play better there than he did in midfield, which he ... didn't.
Rooney did play his best Football generally behind RVP (mostly because he spent 90% of the time playing there), but he still wasn't very good on a whole. I still can only remember a handful of games where he actually played "out of position", which was almost certainly due to not being great as a number 10. As Fergie implied an in form Rooney would play in his preferred position 40 games a season.
But to be honest I also think Rooney's best position is almost irrelevant at times. When Rooney is playing well he is great almost wherever he plays. I think his single best game this season was the MotM performance in central midfield where every pundit was waxing lyrical about him. Likewise when Ronaldo was here I was massively impressed with him supporting from the left at times.
The fact remains when he was consistently played as a number 10 this season he was inconsistent, when he was moved around a little he remained inconsistent. The constant remains this lack of consistency.
It was partly due to Kagawa? I really don't think so he would have been out on the left for an inform and Rooney and a budding Rooney-Van Persie. Rooney was not playing well. He will always score goals but his weakness are highlighted as a no.10. I would also expect him to play better as a 10 than in cm but he was not playing well there so Fergie chose to move him further back and let Kagawa link try and link up with Van Persie as well but I still remember games where he played behind Van Persie and it was not working he plays best as a no.9
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