The Mail reckons Arsenal are seriously going for both Higuain & Rooney.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter gooDevil
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like totally seriously? Not half-hearted like?
I''ve believed all along there was something in the rumours, mate. Unlike a lot of people, I don't think it's at all unrealistic for Rooney to be attracted to Arsenal.
I see no reason whatsoever for him to join Arsenal. What would be the point? They barely even compete.
I'm not being mean to Gooners either, my Da is one, they're a proper club and I'd rather see them compete for honours than the oil whores like Chelsea and City, but leaving the Champions to sign for a team that just scraped 4th is a huge step down, and an entirely pointless move. Unless he's being forced out.
I'm not being mean to Gooners either, my Da is one, they're a proper club and I'd rather see them compete for honours than the oil whores like Chelsea and City, but leaving the Champions to sign for a team that just scraped 4th is a huge step down, and an entirely pointless move. Unless he's being forced out.
It doesn't make sense on any level. It's bollocks.
He wouldn't even be making more money either. He'd be lucky go get the same deal he has now.
So, a pay-cut and playing for a club less likely to compete for honours, leaving the North West where he's lived all his life to go to London.
Yeah, you're right Grinner. It makes feck all sense.
So, a pay-cut and playing for a club less likely to compete for honours, leaving the North West where he's lived all his life to go to London.
Yeah, you're right Grinner. It makes feck all sense.
Even if Arsenal are going to splash the cash this summer, and it looks they will with Higuian being bought for around £20 million, I don't think they'll bow to Rooney's wage demands and Wayne doesn't strike me as someone who will take a paycut.
Above all, it definitely doesn't make sense on our part. We'd be running the risk of letting Arsenal become a threat again by selling them Rooney. There are other areas in that squad that could also do with addressing but they become a lot more of a force with him in the line up.
Reasons why Rooney could be tempted to go to Arsenal:
*It's in London.
*He'd (arguably) be the star of the team.
*Arséne wouldn't drop him because 'it would lessen his morale' or some such indulgent thing.
*He's friendly with some of Arsenal's English players.
*The wages problem could be solved via a signing-fee & image rights percentages.
*Unlike Moyes, Arséne wouldn't whip him & make him do fifty laps of the training pitch if Wayne turned up covered in pie crumbs.
*Arséne has stated that the full story of his talks with SAF regarding the RVP sale will be revealed one day - could it be that Wenger was offered 'first refusal' if United were to sell Rooney?
*Arsenal have a fulltime wig-repairer on the staff.
*Ok, so I made that last one up.
*It's in London.
*He'd (arguably) be the star of the team.
*Arséne wouldn't drop him because 'it would lessen his morale' or some such indulgent thing.
*He's friendly with some of Arsenal's English players.
*The wages problem could be solved via a signing-fee & image rights percentages.
*Unlike Moyes, Arséne wouldn't whip him & make him do fifty laps of the training pitch if Wayne turned up covered in pie crumbs.
*Arséne has stated that the full story of his talks with SAF regarding the RVP sale will be revealed one day - could it be that Wenger was offered 'first refusal' if United were to sell Rooney?
*Arsenal have a fulltime wig-repairer on the staff.
*Ok, so I made that last one up.
I'd rather keep Rooney but if we have someone in mind who we could bring in then selling to Arsenal wouldn't be the worst thing, especially if they did offer big money. They're the furthest off atm and even with their new apparent spending power they need a few more top players which is some big investment. Selling abroad would be best if we had to do it but next would be Arsenal and the key would be reinvesting it. If we were to purely just sell him and bank the cask than I'd fully agree it would be a mistake.
If we did sign Thiago as well then we may well have a stronger hand with regards to Rooney and getting a big fee. I think most know our main weakness is in the middle and getting a top prospect on the cheap means we don't really have any need to sell someone like rooney to potentially invest in a top midfielder. So again if we can get some good cash it, it's worth considering. I guess though the potential standout transfer would be if Mourinho seriously doesn't rate Mata for some reason and wants to sell. Mata for Rooney could be pretty interesting although as with most transfers of this type highly unlikely.
It must be serious if the mail are taking time away from immigrant bashing and Diana stories
Rooney camp are seriously not letting anything leak into the media. It's amazing that after all this time since the end of the season, we've heard nothing.
I'm glad. To me, I'd say that means he's taking his time to calm down and think about what he's doing just like Fergie instructed him.
I'm glad. To me, I'd say that means he's taking his time to calm down and think about what he's doing just like Fergie instructed him.
What exactly is funny about that? Do you remember what Rooney on top form is actually like? He's obscenely good - miles better than the Rooney we've seen 90% of the time over the last two years.
People have a thing on here about goals and statistics, but it's largely bollocks and misses the point entirely when it comes to discussing 'top form'. Rooney's far too gifted to be defended by that sort of reasoning, and anyone with some sense of objectivity will recognise that Rooney's been some way off performing at the level he can for quite some time. I respect what he offered us during the 11/12 season given that he was basically trying to do two jobs at once at times, but none of this detracts from his vastly weaker all round game in comparison to previous seasons. If you think Rooney's been on top form for even a reasonable chunk of the past two years, then it's likely because it's been so long since we've seen Rooney consistently at his best that you've forgotten how good he can be.
This is the problem. At his age he should be at his peak just like Messi, Ronaldo and many others. He's not and this is a worry and maybe why the club hesitate to give him an improved contract.
True, though a player of Rooney's talent is beyond what they would be able to attract normally, and his acquisition could prove to be the platform from which they can really start challenging again. The Premiership is competitive enough as it is without us giving another team Rooney in our first season without SAF. Arsenal always seem to manage when it comes to losing a top player, but this time we'd be giving them a top player without them losing anyone.
If they do have funds to spare and end up signing Rooney and a couple of others, it only takes one other player to look the real deal before they start looking threatening again. Rooney, Wilshere, Walcott, Cazorla...that is already looking very, very good as it is. It's an enormous step up from Giroud, Gervinho et al.
Everything. It's just hilarious. I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. Thanks.
You're memory is horrific.
He had a run of 5-8 games at the start of 11/12 alone that was as good as we've seen him in a United shirt.
It must be serious if the mail are taking time away from immigrant bashing and Diana stories
Isn't it the Daily Express who are famed for constant Diana stories whenever there's a slow news day?
You're not providing reasoned explanations. You've not even gone down the route of bringing up his goal record, which is what many seem to do whenever someone has the temerity to question his performances.
Let's start again....Rooney has not put in top performances regularly for two years, and his general play for big chunks of this period has been poor/extremely poor. Resultantly, he has hit top form on very, very few occasions relative to how often he has played. In my opinion, I'd say this happened only a handful of times (top form being defined as Everton 4-4 form, Rooney 10/11 form, etc...).
What are you contesting here? Are you going to at least list these masses of absolutely top drawer performances that would disprove my statement? Not a single person will deny the absolute mathematical fact that Rooney is a very good, productive player, but it's delusional to suggest that this productivity has come in conjunction with a string of top class performances at any point. This is why so many people were screaming for Kagawa to take Rooney's position after we signed him - immediately after Rooney scored over 30 goals as a more deep lying forward. There is a bigger picture to be considered in terms of what sort of performance is required from someone playing in Rooney's role, especially given the form of our wingers.
This, in a way, is what has shaped our team's approach and dynamic by default. A clear weakness in terms of our attack has been our play in that area through the centre of the final third, and it's because of a lack of creativity from midfield and a lack of consistency from Rooney in attacking areas that this has been the case. This has been frankly obvious for two years now, with us adapting differently in both seasons to cope with it. In 11/12, we repeatedly shifted it out wide to Valencia for him to provide the goods; last season, there was the influence of Carrick/Van Persie and the huge improvement in our set pieces.
Just by actually watching the games you can see the way a team will set out to attack in accordance with its strengths. When Rooney was on form, we attacked with pace through the centre. This has not happened regularly for two years, and there's no co-incidence that the difference in approach has happened in tandem with Rooney's decline in general play.
Ha, I have to backtrack somewhat here - there's no point in lying. I had indeed forgotten that period at the start of 11/12, admittedly. It was so different to the way that we have played since that I'd grouped it in with the 10/11 form for some reason.
Even so, there were a few top drawer performances then (the opening few games), but nothing like the sort of consistency that would disprove the point I'm making. It still stands that Rooney has not shown this level performance in many consecutive games for roughly 2 seasons! For whatever reason this hasn't happened, and it reflects in the way we have played. It simply cannot be seen as wise for us to continue to rely on a player like this in a position so important to our attack.
Our midfield has taken a lot of stick rightly or wrongly in recent times, but it's that area that is failing us as well. We will never properly match up to the Germans or Barcelona so long as we cannot control that area of the final third. On the evidence of recent times, Rooney is not the player to help us with this.
I don't feel I have to. When someone incorrectly brings up the past and then continues to waffle on about it I usually let it speak for itself. As I have done.
I don't question his performance and frankly I don't really care what others think. So you can go ahead and call him all kinds of shite, useless and not needed anymore, when it quite clearly just isn't true. If people want to think that then I will continue to have a good chuckle and marvel at how quickly perceptions turn.
It's not entirely incorrect though, is it? Yes, there was a period I never took into account at the beginning of the season before last. That's a single month added on to the actual period I originally referred to. It's still about two years ago, and we're still looking at about 8 top class performances out of, what, 80? Top class performances are not the be all and end all of a player obviously, but the point is that, amongst these, Rooney has had continuous strings of performances whereby his touch has been off and his contribution outside of his productivity lacking. There is often very little ground between Rooney being one of the best players in the world and being unable to control a football consistently. It is more integral than ever at the moment (given our winger situation) that the player behind Van Persie can be relied upon to be composed, but Rooney's general play, more often than not, has been out of sorts.
This is the main crux of the matter...if you already have a top drawer goalscorer in your side spearheading the attack, you look to your other players to provide in other ways. Rooney's productivity is excellent, but in between Van Persie and the midfield there needs to be more control than what Rooney offers. This was my original point - alongside the likes of Van Persie, Kagawa, Nani and Thiago (if we keep/sign them), Rooney is the odd one out for the most part and a spanner in the works so far as producing fluent football goes.
You're putting words into my mouth with that last bit, by the way. At no point have I said he was 'shite', 'useless', etc... I instead question the wisdom of keeping someone as inconsistent as Rooney behind Van Persie when the attributes of his that are inconsistent are what we need to be...consistent. Honestly, I think there's a good chance I rate Rooney's ability higher than you do, and that you're seeing my posts and wrongly slurring it with some of the more general anti-Rooney posts.
It's almost not worth bothering, mate. I gave up on this thread for the most part months ago. It's one of the maddest corners of the caf. No other club that I know of has this chunk of fans who are so blind to the quality of one of their best players. Even Liverpool fans, who are being treated ten times more disrespectfully by Suarez right now than United have ever been treated by Rooney, will still acknowledge how good he is, and how important to their team. But of course Rooney is English and looks like shrek, which makes it so much easier to make the shit stick to the wall in terms of him 'not being good technically.'
Which is why I just laugh. When asked why I was laughing I honestly laughed out loud that time. Yeah I have to try not to get wound up by it. But still every time I come into this thread my mind boggles at something.
You misunderstand me, Brightonian. I know what Rooney offers, how productive he is and what he's like at his best. The important detail at this moment in time is what he is not offering; that is, a consistent source of composure and a high standard of general play in between midfield and Van Persie. It is undeniable that he has problems in maintaining consistency in this respect and that he can be detrimental to our control of games and the fluidity of our attack. People keep blaming this on the midfield, but we're looking the least comfortable at the moment when Rooney or our wingers are under pressure. The midfield has not helped, but it's in attack that composure can be lacking.
I have little doubt that, if we played him where Van Persie is, he'd offer almost exactly the same quality (more goals, slightly less guile). I don't think rating a player as highly as that can be interpreted as being blind to their qualities.
I hope he does stay and play for Moyes in his natural position. I will be equally upset as I will be happy if Thiago signs but Rooney leaves. He is one of the best players out there it would be a huge loss if he leaves.
I wasn't responding to you, just describing the thread in general. That said, I disagree with pretty much everything you've written there. But as I said, I don't bother arguing in this thread any more, so I'm not going to get into a debate about it.
What the hell are you even on about?
It's coming off like you're sitting there not having a clue what to say, waiting for other posters to say something before then agreeing with them. You've still not said anything against the general point I'm making, which stands regardless of how funny you think it all is.The point is easy to grasp. Look at the difference between someone like Mata when he's in central areas and compare it to what Rooney has started offering a little too consistently. In fact, closer to home, look at what Kagawa was providing for Dortmund in central areas and then once more compare it to Rooney. Goetze, Messi, Iniesta.... even Reus who isn't necessarily on the level of some of the very top players technically. There is such a distinct difference in technical consistency here. I judge Rooney against these players because he's proved already that he can be exceptional in what was once a very natural role for him. What he doesn't have, whether it be because of concentration or something else, is the ability to play poorly in strings of games whilst maintaining good technical adeptness. Not only that, but his below par days are frequent and detrimental to our style of football. Even without watching this happen (which it does, a lot), how could this not be the case? He is the man responsible for linking midfield and attack - the player tasked with keeping order in the centre of the final third. Of course it's going to be detrimental if he's not on his game, it's obvious.
Just to clarify once more, I've said previously in this thread that I'm terrified of the idea that Rooney will go elsewhere and set the league alight - probably as a main forward but perhaps also in the role we currently deploy him. Basically then, I don't want him gone because he's shite or because there's no chance of him excelling elsewhere, that's for sure. It's just that there's a niggling feeling that we can't move on with addressing certain weaknesses so long as he remains playing like he has done in recent times. We can't have a player like that with off form wingers and expect to have our share of possession against the very top teams.
I feel like this is the definition of madness - arguing at someone who laughs at nothing, whilst repeating a point that hasn't been properly contested. I'm gonna go and chew on some furniture.
What the hell are you even on about?
Yeah that's exactly what it is isn't it
.We'll drop it now ghaliboy, it's getting a bit juvenile.
Fair enough. I've not read most of this thread but I'm guessing it's probably nothing that hasn't been discussed to the death already. 376 pages...immense.
Fair enough. I've not read most of this thread but I'm guessing it's probably nothing that hasn't been discussed to the death already. 376 pages...immense.
It's exactly what gives me the shits. People coming in and going 'THIS IS WHAT UNITED DON'T NEED. THIS IS WHAT ROONEY ISN'T SEE GUYS THIS IS HOW IT IS'. Which of course most of what you said here sounds like a well thought out and thorough account of your opinion which is fine as well. But a lot of it is focused on the negative and talking about Rooney's time at the club as if it is less than the contribution he currently stands at. Which I think is wrong. Like bright said there is no point arguing about shades of grey regarding his on field performances and his contributions because everyone has a different opinion. One hand sweeps away years of achievements and the other is quick to tell everyone just how shit the player is.
Talking of form and such is all fair enough but when people say things like 'last two years' and 'since the start of last season' it's completely wrong. He's not been 8/10+ for each and every game without fail but his overall performance in all areas has been a solid 7/10 pass and there are other players in there making a name for themselves and if he wants to sook and leave over it then good riddance but if he wants to stay and fight he shouldn't (imo) be getting this much shite from the fans if this thread is any indication.
Rooney is like the Christopher Nolan of footballers: A good director sure, but certainly not a great one, and yet whose militant fan-base is so blindly impassioned with anything he touches that it's impossible to reason with them that he's anything other than one of the greatest filmmakers in the world. Every legitimate flaw that's raised is excused away to keep him atop the pedestal.
Ye- Nah, I suggest you actually go back and look through the thread. Plenty have said that he's integral if he can continue to push for a higher personal standard and more contribution to the team but there is genuinely nobody here wanting a look down his trousers.
same here
gotta say I didn't expect us to be able to have thoughtful debate, what with you being so anti-Rooney and me being so pro-Rooney ...looks like we can, infact, all get along - Status