Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

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paceme said:
In everywhere but muppet land it is.
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Not really, it doesn't stop clubs wanting to sign the likes of Aguero, Cavani, Falcao etc. These players aren't going to be commanding small wages (nevermind what the likes of Ronaldo & Messi earn, and what Bale probably will if he moves).

If a player's worth it they'll sign him.
 
ninety said:
If he stays i think we've still got a very good player on our hands. He didn't have an ideal season due to a few injuries and being played out of position.

But do you really want a player whose heart isn't in it? Also I can't work out whether he is incredibly stupid or just really, really, really poorly advised. Or both. I can see Rooney going to his agent complaining about not starting the Madrid match and being played out of position and his agent immediately suggesting a transfer cause it means more $$$ for the both of them. His agent would then go on to tell him that he's Wayne Rooney and that all the big clubs in Europe will be in for him. Unfortunately reality doesn't quite marry up with the delusional hubris formed in Rooney's mind and he only gets nibbles from Arsenal and PSG. And things backfire quite spectacularly on him. I think if he stays he'll be a top player for us for some time but I honestly can't be arsed defending his idiotic decisions anymore. He genuinely seems incapable of making life easy for himself.
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This is largely how I see it too.
 
JaffyJoe said:
You said most people would want him if it was not for his wages. Zen said that shouldn't be a problem. You said in everywhere but muppet land it is.

Unless your point is he is not as good as fans on here think he is then I misunderstood you. Otherwise the wages being a deterrent means he is not seen as being good enough.
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Not necassarily. His wages combined with the fee we probably would command for him make him an expensive acquisition. I think that will put off a lot of the top clubs that Rooney may potentially prefer to sign for. Madrid would not be considered a step down, but they are notorious bandwagon jumpers, who love to sign the shiniest and most popular new toys -like Bale. Rooney does not fall into that category, and for many people his performances over the past couple of seasons are no longer representative of the wages he is paid.

I think Rooney should go, but will stay. I don't think he will want to sign for a Monaco or a PSG, and i don't think those who may want him will be prepared to pay 30-40m and 200k a week for him. I think he may stay on that basis. In my view Rooney wants to leave, and probably thought he would have more options than have been indicated so far. After the reaction to his last request to leave, he would surely expect an even stronger reaction after yet another request. If he wanted to stay why bring so much adverse reaction upon himself, by asking to leave yet again? The only answer that makes sense to me is that he didn't expect to be here next season having to face the possible consequences of his actions. Looks like backfiring spectacularly so far.

Hope he and moyes sort it out soon one way or the other. I really can't be arsed with one of those long running summer saga's which drag on and on and overshadow everything else. Stay or go, just sort it out quick and let's all move on.
 
thepolice123 said:
Was there really that much of a tactical change in Rooney's role compared to 11/12? In 11/12, he has consistently played behind another striker and still managed to score regularly. I'm afraid that the argument that he has played deeper or in midfield don't really hold water. Fact is that this season he has been out of sorts, couple that with his niggling injuries, you have a poor goal return - which is a drastic 50% drop from the previous season.



From the turn of the year to march, RVP had his goal drought but Rooney stepped up to carry the scoring weight. Shortly after that he quickly reverted back to his erratic form. I wouldn't say he has had a terrible season, but for large parts of it his football has been hit-and-miss.
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16 goals and 13 assists in 36 appearances is not a poor return at all. Conveniently you mention his goal scoring going down by 50% (in less apps) but not his assist rate going up by over 75%.

Criticise his general play or him as a person but criticising his stats is retarded.
 
thepolice123 said:
From the turn of the year to march, RVP had his goal drought but Rooney stepped up to carry the scoring weight. Shortly after that he quickly reverted back to his erratic form. I wouldn't say he has had a terrible season, but for large parts of it his football has been hit-and-miss.
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how many of our squad could you say that about though ....

defense was very shaky in first half of season, Our wingers had little impact the whole season, Anderson, Cleverley were in and out of the team and the best you could say about Welbeck is that he worked hard for the team

Rooney wasn't at his best but people are being harsh, I'd be interested to see how well RVP would have done had he been shifted around so much

I can understand the Rooney dislike as he has been a silly silly boy but I think we are under rating his impact and ability

at the same time unless we see an improvement in attitude he should be moved on
 
apotheosis said:
Not necassarily. His wages combined with the fee we probably would command for him make him an expensive acquisition. I think that will put off a lot of the top clubs that Rooney may potentially prefer to sign for. Madrid would not be considered a step down, but they are notorious bandwagon jumpers, who love to sign the shiniest and most popular new toys -like Bale. Rooney does not fall into that category, and for many people his performances over the past couple of seasons are no longer representative of the wages he is paid.

I think Rooney should go, but will stay. I don't think he will want to sign for a Monaco or a PSG, and i don't think those who may want him will be prepared to pay 30-40m and 200k a week for him. I think he may stay on that basis. In my view Rooney wants to leave, and probably thought he would have more options than have been indicated so far. After the reaction to his last request to leave, he would surely expect an even stronger reaction after yet another request. If he wanted to stay why bring so much adverse reaction upon himself, by asking to leave yet again? The only answer that makes sense to me is that he didn't expect to be here next season having to face the possible consequences of his actions. Looks like backfiring spectacularly so far.

Hope he and moyes sort it out soon one way or the other. I really can't be arsed with one of those long running summer saga's which drag on and on and overshadow everything else. Stay or go, just sort it out quick and let's all move on.
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I agree with that your basically saying what I did currently he is not seen as good enough to warrant what he would cost? But then what are his realistic options: Real, Bayern (let's just say as he is an upgrade on their strikers) and that is it Chelsea maybe also. I don't see him joining Arsenal, can't join city but if he is money motivated PSG are also in play. It all depends on what he wants if its money a couple more clubs are in play if it is moving to a top club and playing upfront regularly then he has very few options.

I think he will stay also and I am happy for him to do so as long as he is fully invested. He has sacrificed a lot for the team in terms of his play and doing the dirty work over the years but when I say fully invested I mean determined to be at his best fitness wise and application wise. He can be lazy/sloppy at times, I think he is poorly advised in all honesty but this is a down season for him but without him we still wouldn't have won the title. He is too good to be sitting out the big games and in that regard he only has his self to blame. An 'on form' Rooney is better behind the main striker than Kagawa can be currently even at his best. We don't have many genuine matchwinners who have shown what they can do for us: Nani, Rooney and Van Persie are it. Nani is a goner it seems that leaves Rooney and Van Persie. Nani's quality will need to be replaced and while Kagwa can/should show his quality next year he is still an unknown because we don't know the managers plans for him. It's a risk to lose Rooney without a replacement already signed.
 
JaffyJoe said:
I agree with that your basically saying what I did currently he is not seen as good enough to warrant what he would cost? But then what are his realistic options: Real, Bayern (let's just say as he is an upgrade on their strikers) and that is it Chelsea maybe also. I don't see him joining Arsenal, can't join city but if he is money motivated PSG are also in play. It all depends on what he wants if its money a couple more clubs are in play if it is moving to a top club and playing upfront regularly then he has very few options.

I think he will stay also and I am happy for him to do so as long as he is fully invested. He has sacrificed a lot for the team in terms of his play and doing the dirty work over the years but when I say fully invested I mean determined to be at his best fitness wise and application wise. He can be lazy/sloppy at times, I think he is poorly advised in all honesty but this is a down season for him but without him we still wouldn't have won the title. He is too good to be sitting out the big games and in that regard he only has his self to blame. An 'on form' Rooney is better behind the main striker than Kagawa can be currently even at his best. We don't have many genuine matchwinners who have shown what they can do for us: Nani, Rooney and Van Persie are it. Nani is a goner it seems that leaves Rooney and Van Persie. Nani's quality will need to be replaced and while Kagwa can/should show his quality next year he is still an unknown because we don't know the managers plans for him. It's a risk to lose Rooney without a replacement already signed.
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Yep it will be interesting to see how Moyes views it. It's hard even to attempt to predict either way what he will do. He acted quickly with Rio, and you would think he must have at least an idea by now how he is feeling about Rooney's situation. If Roo is not in Moyes plans it will surely be hard to envisage us having a £200k player on the bench and still signing another. I hope we keep Nani tbh, he has never whinged or asked to leave when he has not been in, and i feel only his inconsistency is holding him back. If Moyes can sort that out, we could have ourselves a really top player.

In contrast i feel Rooney wants to go in my view. Poor advice or not he is not a fool, he will have been well aware after last time what manner of adverse reaction he would receive from a second request to leave. I think he will find it hard to recapture his best form while receiving a probable negative reaction from some fans. That is my only issue if he stays. He is similar to Nani and Anderson, in that recently he has struggled to produce his best under SAF, but it is now a clean slate under a different manager and presumably different conditions.

Roll on july 1st when we should start to get some idea of how it's all going to play out. :)
 
If he's not interested, hopefully he puts in a stellar season to whore himself to other big clubs. It'll be win-win

If he's interested: good news, he's a great player and an integral part of our attack.
 
I actually think him speaking to Ferguson and suggesting he leave if he isn't wanted any more makes sense, rather than categorically asking to leave. You get the feeling relations between him and Ferguson had soured, and I think he'd have been sold without the Fergie retirement. Moyes being here might be the clean slate Rooney needs to wind his neck in a tad.
 
The Neviller said:
I actually think him speaking to Ferguson and suggesting he leave if he isn't wanted any more makes sense, rather than categorically asking to leave. You get the feeling relations between him and Ferguson had soured, and I think he'd have been sold without the Fergie retirement. Moyes being here might be the clean slate Rooney needs to wind his neck in a tad.
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To be fair Ive actually been quite impressed with him just keeping quiet and not stirring the shit until he has has a chance to speak to the new boss, rather than already having made up his mind and making things unpleasant for all concerned. Once he HAS spoken Moyes though I think he will need to make a statement sooner rather than later clarifying his position if he has any interest in staying on as his goodwill with a lot of supporters is on very shaky ground and it will take a bit more than Sorry, I was a silly boy this time.
 
ninety said:
If he stays i think we've still got a very good player on our hands. He didn't have an ideal season due to a few injuries and being played out of position.

But do you really want a player whose heart isn't in it? Also I can't work out whether he is incredibly stupid or just really, really, really poorly advised. Or both. I can see Rooney going to his agent complaining about not starting the Madrid match and being played out of position and his agent immediately suggesting a transfer cause it means more $$$ for the both of them. His agent would then go on to tell him that he's Wayne Rooney and that all the big clubs in Europe will be in for him. Unfortunately reality doesn't quite marry up with the delusional hubris formed in Rooney's mind and he only gets nibbles from Arsenal and PSG. And things backfire quite spectacularly on him. I think if he stays he'll be a top player for us for some time but I honestly can't be arsed defending his idiotic decisions anymore. He genuinely seems incapable of making life easy for himself.
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Hopefully this saga has made him realise he is not as good as he thinks he is. Give us another year of his best football and then he can leave for another big club that he so apparently craves. I'm sure he was expecting Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern etc to be squabbling over his signature but it hasn't materialised at all and doesn't look like doing so this year. The fact remains is there are other better strikers out there available for big clubs - Cavani, Suarez, Lewandowski for similar or cheaper prices.
 
shaggy said:
Hopefully this saga has made him realise he is not as good as he thinks he is. Give us another year of his best football and then he can leave for another big club that he so apparently craves. I'm sure he was expecting Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern etc to be squabbling over his signature but it hasn't materialised at all and doesn't look like doing so this year. The fact remains is there are other better strikers out there available for big clubs - Cavani, Suarez, Lewandowski for similar or cheaper prices.
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For all his faults Rooney is still better than Suarez
 
He is getting new hair again, I think that is like almost buying a new manbag of some sort.
 
Lewandowski looks like a great goalscorer. He doesn't have Rooney's all-round game though.
Cavani I am really not sure about - haven't seen enough but hasn't looked like a top class player when I've seen him.
Suarez is around Rooney's level.
 
Rooney's "all-round game" is hugely overrated. He can ping a nice long ball but his link up play widely fluctuates from game to game. I'd say if you offered the big clubs a choice of Suarez, Cavani, Lewandowski, Falcao or Rooney then Rooney would be last on the list. 2010 Rooney and it's a different story but that's 3 years ago now.
 
shaggy said:
Rooney's "all-round game" is hugely overrated. He can ping a nice long ball but his link up play widely fluctuates from game to game. I'd say if you offered the big clubs a choice of Suarez, Cavani, Lewandowski, Falcao or Rooney then Rooney would be last on the list. 2010 Rooney and it's a different story but that's 3 years ago now.
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You say that as if Rooney hasn't been any good since 09/10. If so, I disagree.

Rooney was excellent during the season that City won. We wouldn't have finished level on points with City if it wasn't for him. I think he was equally as good in that season as he was in 09/10. The run in to 2011 was good for him too, though most of the season was spent getting fit. When he came back, he was a big part of our title march. He also really wasn't all that bad this year, considering he was no longer leading the line. Still a good amount of goals from a deeper role, and a great amount of assists.

I like Cavani. I think I'd pick him over Rooney personally, but not the other 3. Cavani isn't so dissimilar, in that he gives you alot of support play from deep and outwide as well as plenty of goals. Lewy and Falcao are excellent penalty box players, and Suarez I just don't like at all. Even when he's not being a cnut, I think he's rash and lacks composure. Good dribbler, and his burst of acceleration is dangerous, but he just looks too on the edge all the time, and he misses some howlers when he's swiping at his shots the way he does.
 
shaggy said:
Rooney's "all-round game" is hugely overrated. He can ping a nice long ball but his link up play widely fluctuates from game to game. I'd say if you offered the big clubs a choice of Suarez, Cavani, Lewandowski, Falcao or Rooney then Rooney would be last on the list. 2010 Rooney and it's a different story but that's 3 years ago now.
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I whole-hardheartedly disagree with that. From all those players, Rooney has been the top performer throughout his career. The rest have only surfaced over the past 3/4 years.

I don't think his all-round game is overrated at all. His partnership with Welbeck last season, as well as his partnership with RVP this year has been quality when it's been given the chance. Let's not forget how he linked excellently with Ronaldo and Tevez too, who many said he couldn't work with the latter due to their similarities.
 
shaggy said:
Rooney's "all-round game" is hugely overrated. He can ping a nice long ball but his link up play widely fluctuates from game to game. I'd say if you offered the big clubs a choice of Suarez, Cavani, Lewandowski, Falcao or Rooney then Rooney would be last on the list. 2010 Rooney and it's a different story but that's 3 years ago now.
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Yet last season Rooney had a better goal rate than every single one of the strikers you mentioned.
 
akash02 said:
Yet last season Rooney had a better goal rate than every single one of the strikers you mentioned.
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And this is during a season that is below-par considering his standards. I think that because of this average season + Fergie's comments at the end of the season people are forgetting how good Rooney has been for us during his years here, even during inconsistent spells. He seems like an inconsistent player over the course of the season, but when you look at his years with us, I'd say so far he's had a pretty consistent career which is really hard to achieve at the top level (see how many players have had purple patch seasons then slightly faded away).
 
akash02 said:
Yet last season Rooney had a better goal rate than every single one of the strikers you mentioned.
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Don't try and claim Rooney had a better season than those strikers. Rooney's goals per minute (I assume that's what you are referring to but I highly doubt it's better than Falcao or Cavani who scored almost a goal a game) may be better because he was hauled off in many games because of playing like a drunk, even when he scored. Those strikers are better and more desirable than Rooney at the moment, they offer just the same output without the dreadful performances that come with it. Falcao cost £52 million, Rooney would be lucky to fetch half of that.
 
Zen86 said:
And yet top clubs are lining up to sign the other strikers.
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Who gives a feck? Rooney is already at a top club, the rest aren't and one of them has fecked of to Monaco.

From what we've seen Suarez has whored himself out to Real who don't appear to be interested, Lewandowski has whored himself out to Bayern who would rather have him on a free. Falcao is of to a newly promoted club.
 
shaggy said:
Don't try and claim Rooney had a better season than those strikers. Rooney's goals per minute (I assume that's what you are referring to but I highly doubt it's better than Falcao or Cavani who scored almost a goal a game) may be better because he was hauled off in many games because of playing like a drunk, even when he scored. Those strikers are better and more desirable than Rooney at the moment, they offer just the same output without the dreadful performances that come with it. Falcao cost £52 million, Rooney would be lucky to fetch half of that.
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When I meant last season I meant the 2011/2012 season. Rooney had a poor-ish season, no doubts about that but it was a season where he payed deeper than all of the strikers you mentioned. You criticize his overall play when all the strikers you mention aren't any better than Rooney. Falcao cost 52m because he wasn't solely owned by Athletico Madrid and and that's why he's playing for fecking Monaco
 
Zen86 said:
And yet top clubs are lining up to sign the other strikers.
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Yes if Rooney had a certain buyer out there, one which he believed the club would sell to and come up with enough money for him personally we'd probably be hearing more from his camp than window dressing over the player's request to leave.

PSG are probably genuinely interested in the idea, yet Stretford either hoped for more of a bidding war or an established force to be among Wayne's suitors.
 
akash02 said:
When I meant last season I meant the 2011/2012 season. Rooney had a poor-ish season, no doubts about that but it was a season where he payed deeper than all of the strikers you mentioned. You criticize his overall play when all the strikers you mention aren't any better than Rooney. Falcao cost 52m because he wasn't solely owned by Athletico Madrid and and that's why he's playing for fecking Monaco
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Well I disagree. He hits a few long passes and everyone goes "oooh ahh that was great" and then 10 seconds later randomly passes it to an opposing teams player for no reason. Yes he can have rare games where everything comes off but most of the time it's highly inconsistent. I don't think Rooney playing deep helps us play great football at all because of him continually giving the ball away, so maybe he can play that role better than other strikers but it isn't anything to shout about. The only time he looked at home in that position was the start of 2011/12 where his all round game was exceptional for a bit, since then it has been very average. Yes he has still scored and assisted but who is to say someone else couldn't have come in, improved our general play loads and contributed more in other ways.
 
Hernandez - BFA said:
I whole-hardheartedly disagree with that. From all those players, Rooney has been the top performer throughout his career. The rest have only surfaced over the past 3/4 years.

I don't think his all-round game is overrated at all. His partnership with Welbeck last season, as well as his partnership with RVP this year has been quality when it's been given the chance. Let's not forget how he linked excellently with Ronaldo and Tevez too, who many said he couldn't work with the latter due to their similarities.
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3/4 years is a long time if a player has outperformed you for that length of time its fair to say he is the better player. Ronaldo and Rooney where teammates 4 years ago Rooney was a different pklayer then. He actually might be last on the list the is the oldest also. He is too inconsistent as good as he is.
 
shaggy said:
Well I disagree. He hits a few long passes and everyone goes "oooh ahh that was great" and then 10 seconds later randomly passes it to an opposing teams player for no reason. Yes he can have rare games where everything comes off but most of the time it's highly inconsistent. I don't think Rooney playing deep helps us play great football at all because of him continually giving the ball away, so maybe he can play that role better than other strikers but it isn't anything to shout about. The only time he looked at home in that position was the start of 2011/12 where his all round game was exceptional for a bit, since then it has been very average. Yes he has still scored and assisted but who is to say someone else couldn't have come in, improved our general play loads and contributed more in other ways.
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The way you talk, one would think all Rooney does is play the odd long ball and then proceeds to spend the rest of the game giving the ball. Exaggeration would probably an understatement if I was to sum up your post. And how about the entire second half of 2010/2011 when he played off Hernandez and was exceptional?
 
You know what right now he would be last on that list Falcao and Cavani match him over the last two years. Suarez and Lewandowski have both outperformed him this season. I think managers/teams would pick all those players before him.
 
akash02 said:
The way you talk, one would think all Rooney does is play the odd long ball and then proceeds to spend the rest of the game giving the ball. Exaggeration would probably an understatement if I was to sum up your post. And how about the entire second half of 2010/2011 when he played off Hernandez and was exceptional?
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To be honest based on the Rooney this year if he is not scoring or assisting he may as well not be on the pitch. It was dire stuff and obviously Fergie agreed seeing as he benched him a lot of the time. He wasn't exceptional the second half of 10/11, just thankfully a lot better than the dross from the first. Rooney's supposed to be this great partner for Hernandez, Berbatov, RvP... he has never really developed a partnership with any of them that we were expecting. He threatens too, but it never quite materialises. RvP plays better with Hernandez than Rooney does. At least next year if he stays Rooney will be good again based on his "1 good year, 1 bad year" thing he has going on.
 
akash02 said:
Who gives a feck? Rooney is already at a top club, the rest aren't and one of them has fecked of to Monaco.

From what we've seen Suarez has whored himself out to Real who don't appear to be interested, Lewandowski has whored himself out to Bayern who would rather have him on a free. Falcao is of to a newly promoted club.
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I touched a nerve I take it.

Maybe football clubs don't think Rooney is quite as good a player as you do :wenger:
 
To be honest Shaggy you are talking a load of crap. Rooney was fantastic in the second half of that season, it was some of the best football he has played in his career. He has forged a good partnership with pretty much every striker he has consistently played with excluding Berbatov so I am sure what you're on about. Even this season he and RVP have linked up very well and Rooney-Hernandez combo in 10/11 was better than anything RVP/Hernandez have served up
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Yes if Rooney had a certain buyer out there, one which he believed the club would sell to and come up with enough money for him personally we'd probably be hearing more from his camp than window dressing over the player's request to leave.

PSG are probably genuinely interested in the idea, yet Stretford either hoped for more of a bidding war or an established force to be among Wayne's suitors.
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The last time he pulled this kind of stunt he had allsorts sniffing around him, even City. Now.. no one, bar probably PSG as you say, although even they probably don't think he's worth his wages.
 
akash02 said:
To be honest Shaggy you are talking a load of crap. Rooney was fantastic in the second half of that season, it was some of the best football he has played in his career. He has forged a good partnership with pretty much every striker he has consistently played with excluding Berbatov so I am sure what you're on about. Even this season he and RVP have linked up very well and Rooney-Hernandez combo in 10/11 was better than anything RVP/Hernandez have served up
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Linked up so well Rooney got dropped for our biggest games and the run in. Play RvP-Hernandez next year and it'll be comfortably better than Rooney-Hernandez. RvP is just simply the better player.
 
Zen86 said:
I touched a nerve I take it.

Maybe football clubs don't think Rooney is quite as good a player as you do :wenger:
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If that's what you want to think so be it.

Besides you don't really have a clue who's interested Rooney and who isn't:wenger:
 
shaggy said:
Linked up so well Rooney got dropped for our biggest games and the run in. Play RvP-Hernandez next year and it'll be comfortably better than Rooney-Hernandez. RvP is just simply the better player.
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They actually did (when he played off him anyway), you might want to take a look back at some of the earlier games in the season (Sunderland, Reading, Cluj, Villa definitely come to mind) where as you think RVP will link up better with Hernandez because of what? I can only recall the Wigan game where they showed signs but Rooney-Hernandez was on a different level but keep on talking rubbish if that's you want.
 
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