And what if he says he does want to play here?
Given he's done his best to deny that he wants to leave the club without going public, I'd say there's a good chance he plans on staying, unless we force him out.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
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Given he's done his best to deny that he wants to leave the club without going public, I'd say there's a good chance he plans on staying, unless we force him out.
Then he has to realise that he is at a massive club and poor performances will result in being benched, and not act like a pissy little mare if that happens.
Where has he done this?
Are you referring to his camp denying that he put in a written transfer request and that the club is forcing him out?
This sums up your entire stance in this thread. There's you and there's "Rooney-lovers", and anything that goes against your point of view must clearly be an expression of their bias. I don't believe anything. If Rooney goes you'll be celebrating because you don't like him but, more importantly, because you were right. Yay. Well done. I don't particularly care either way. It's pretty clear to me that the best thing for the club is to keep him but if we can't do that then I'm not arsed. I don't believe that Rooney wants to stay or that United want to keep him at all costs. I don't care. Both your and Sparky Hughes' bizarrely adamant stance against one of your club's players has led you to completely miss the point I was making. I don't think that everything Sir Alex says is true. Ronaldo's an obvious example as is Verón. I do think that everything Sir Alex says is carefully thought out with United's best interests in mind, however. Saying "we're not letting him leave" when keeping him would "adversely restrict our dealings in the transfer market" or "affect team unity or create a damaging sense of player power" would be a spectacularly stupid thing to do, obviously.
In terms of getting the best price for your player, you will always say "he is not leaving", "not for sale". It's how the club makes sure it has the upper hand in all these negotiations which is precisely what Sir Alex did in this situation. Along the way, he has made Wayne (more so Stretford) look a bit silly, again.
That is but a range of guesses and assumptions on your part i would say [much of the debate for a month has been that of course]. Well except for the remark concerning our strength in the transfer market which cannot be argued in your favour on financial grounds.
As for Fergie's statement you have to view that some some care from whatever your starting point may be, after all if the club was serious intending to sell Rooney they're not about to weaken their negotiating position in public like that right at the beginning of the summer.
If this is Rooney in his peak then I am not impressed.
This is the thing, i do not myself believe that it is enough simply for Rooney to draw back from a wish to leave the club which appears to be a view held by some people on here.
Bearing in mind that they might be more than willing to sell at this point he has to convince the board that he is worth their commitment over the duration of a contract which would take him into his 30s. Part of this could be demonstrating an acceptance that his high status in the squad is not guaranteed [a new contract refelcting such] and that he'll make efforts to improve his lifestyle and by extension match fitness.
I know right?! Poor little lamb.
I just wanted to get that out there before it becomes an official statement.
wow...that article really knows which posts to quote (all of them were from people wanting Rooney to leave, not one was of those who don't want that to happen)...can't say I'm surprised though
And whose to say the papers are full of bullshit!?
Sooner the transfer window closes and the soap opera is over for a few months the better.
As the saying goes Nick, old habits die hard
Obviously both sides aren't telling the full story, but knowing what we know after this story first broke, here's what I think actually happened.
Sir Alex felt that Rooney's performances weren't up to scratch, which for the most part they weren't contrary to what the stats say, and dropped him as a way of motivating him and letting him know his place isn't guaranteed. After the Madrid snub, Rooney had a come to Jesus meeting with Sir Alex about why he was left out and seeked future assurances about his role in the team. Sir Alex was probably non-committal and made his point about how an in-form Rooney would never be dropped. I do think Rooney then either asked for a transfer or at least suggested he should play elsewhere, which angered Sir Alex because this is the second time he's done something like this.
Initially when Fergie acknowledged the transfer request, I thought it was a stupid move as it put Wayne in a bad spot with the fans. Knowing that he decided to retire in March and that Moyes was the choice all along, it was a brilliant move. You only have to look at this thread to see that alot of people want him gone and that is because of the transfer request. Fergie gave Moyes who is already in a tough spot a generous gift. If Sir Alex never said anything about a transfer request and we sold Rooney, people would point to their past and suggest Moyes was the reason why Wayne left, and an already uphill battle for Moyes would get even bigger. Moyes is now in a win-win situation, with the attitude towards Rooney the way it is now, we can sell him and the blame would go on Rooney. If Moyes convinces him to stay and Wayne gets back to his best, he's a hero for fixing a damaged relationship.
Sir Alex felt that Rooney's performances weren't up to scratch, which for the most part they weren't contrary to what the stats say, and dropped him as a way of motivating him and letting him know his place isn't guaranteed. After the Madrid snub, Rooney had a come to Jesus meeting with Sir Alex about why he was left out and seeked future assurances about his role in the team. Sir Alex was probably non-committal and made his point about how an in-form Rooney would never be dropped. I do think Rooney then either asked for a transfer or at least suggested he should play elsewhere, which angered Sir Alex because this is the second time he's done something like this.
Initially when Fergie acknowledged the transfer request, I thought it was a stupid move as it put Wayne in a bad spot with the fans. Knowing that he decided to retire in March and that Moyes was the choice all along, it was a brilliant move. You only have to look at this thread to see that alot of people want him gone and that is because of the transfer request. Fergie gave Moyes who is already in a tough spot a generous gift. If Sir Alex never said anything about a transfer request and we sold Rooney, people would point to their past and suggest Moyes was the reason why Wayne left, and an already uphill battle for Moyes would get even bigger. Moyes is now in a win-win situation, with the attitude towards Rooney the way it is now, we can sell him and the blame would go on Rooney. If Moyes convinces him to stay and Wayne gets back to his best, he's a hero for fixing a damaged relationship.
Good way of looking at the situation. Seems plausible.
Yeah this could very well be the case
A very good post. I would add to it that if Rooney stays I'd expect a 3 year contract extension to be signed - this alone would cost c. £50-60m over the period (so the difference could be higher).
I certainly don't think it's fanciful to say that Wayne Rooney staying or leaving could be the difference between signing a more expensive established International vs a "Zaha" type signing.
Yes.
Two transfer requests would tell me otherwise.
We can dress it up all we want with the whole 'he was just upset over being left out vs Madrid ect.'' but I actually believe that he might want a change in scenery and I won't begrudge him for that. I'd wish him luck, as I have with most United players that have decided to move on.
If he came out and was open about it and that being the reason I think most Utd supporters would understand to be fair. What I really hate, and its not just Rooney, I think every player does it is when they do everything they can to engineer a move except actually put in a written transfer request so they still get the laughably named loyalty bonus.
Well on the one hand that was a denial to an accusation which was never made by Sir Alex, a piece of nuance to suit their PR at that moment.
As for him being forced out, it would depend why he thought that and could also just be spin from Stretford.
New hair?
He really really wants to be Tom Cleverley
Same as the old hair.
Maybe United are refusing to pay for a new transplant? That could make negotiations difficult.
Out of interest, surely the DM should have to ask for permission of individual users to use quotes?
Cute."I have absolutely no problems with Wayne if he stays". I'm sure that will be in tomorrow's edition of the Star, hey?
He's had a new Barnet transfer. Perhaps it's a clue where he wants to go play next season.
Are we even sure that either of them were formal written transfer requests with the 100% intent to leave?..
If it's formal, they'll have to waive some sort of loyalty bonus or sort.
And normally players do not formally submit written request (i can recall Alonso doing so), so a verbal "want a transfer" is a bad as you can get.
And this is professional football, you don't joke around about wanting to leave to your manager and take it back like some sort of "i'm kidding"
Really? Please, tell me more.
So a verbal transfer request (which has happened more times for any club than anyone knows or will know about) is worse than a written transfer request?.. Ok.
If people sad enough to convince yourself that all of the superfluous shite that comes along after the final whistle means everything then good on them. Humans make mistakes, people forgive and forget. Players make decisions to benefit themselves all the time. This isn't anything new that we should all be waving fingers and carrying burning torches over.
Ghaliboy. I suggest you read the FourFourTwo article on transfer rumour mill. Very insightful. I posted in Transfer Forum a few days ago. In a nutshell, he is right. Players forego loyalty/bonus if they submit formal transfer request. It's why you don't seem them used as much anymore. If you do see a formal transfer request, you know the player's desire to leave is quite strong.
It's not worse than official but the only difference is the player doesn't lose money and it's not in writing. I think we all know how modern footballers are. It doesn't change how some feel when it's done to the club they support. In Rooney's case, how the situation transpired deserves at least some of the media attention. Due to the ideas entrenched in fans' minds about loyalty, respect, dignity, so on and so forth, you can see why some of these "outrageous" reactions occur. No fan likes seeing a player attempting to dictate terms of his contract to the club through taking certain actions. Simply because it happens "all the time" shouldn't necessarily mean you cannot be upset about it.
In America, I believe they call it "until it affects you and your backyard". I forget the exact saying but the point is events happen all the time but when it gets personal and something happens to you or someone/something you love, you happen to have a different view on things than before the incidents occurred. Diving is a lot more commonplace than before. Despite this, I still get enraged seeing players dive. Do I accept it's a part of the game now? For the most part? Does it mean I will no longer be upset about it because it happens "all the time"? I hope you pick up on the distinction and see where I'm going with it.
"Rumor mill" pretty much counts me out on reading that article..
On the contrary because a few fans got upset by it and think it's an outrage it doesn't mean everyone does or should.
I personally couldn't give two shits on what is going on outside when he steps onto the football pitch. If he wants to leave then good on him he will leave. If he doesn't and the club want to keep him he'll continue to wear the shirt and hopefully put in 100%. That's all anyone can ask for.
For me it's the fans who think they have vicarious control over management, relationships and backroom issues. When really nobody has a clue about anything to do with any of it is what baffles me. I don't really understand why people can't sit back and say "you know what, feck him if he wants to go he can. If he doesn't we will continue to support him". I mean some are and most aren't but it's bizarre to me.
Anyways, carry on. I said I wasn't going to get embroiled in love/hate Rooney discussions. So I should just keep my mouth shut. (Or fingers sheathed.)
Are you seriously being thick? I will post the article here so you can read it. It's good information. Not bollocks. Yeesh! Some people.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-truth-behind-the-transfer-rumour-mill.372402/
Nor does it mean no one should be upset. At the end of the day, it is one's choice but if you cannot respect the decision of others, why should you expect them to respect yours? I am not saying you don't respect other fans' decisions but simply making a decision.
In regards to your second paragraph, some fans feel that way but I know many that don't. It may seem like it based on how they voice their opinions but they well and truly know they have zero control. I find that first sentence a tad strange because I think you're trying to make a different point than what that sentence is suggesting. This sanitised football culture means such decisions in terms of "relationships and backroom issues" are more intensely debated. At the very most, fans like to know their voice is being heard (i.e. RI sanc). And just because they don't say in writing "If he doesn't we will continue to support him" doesn't mean they will not support him if he does stay. You seem to want to build a framework in which only then does an opinion/view become sound and suits your own views/thoughts.
If you did not want to be drawn into the love/hate discussion, you probably should have stayed out of the thread. There's no new news so it's been the same circular discussion for the past few weeks.
He'll have to go! We can't afford to keep him in new hair.
Ghali your a top poster mate, but that is clutching at straws if ever I saw it
I had to comment on thatGhali your a top poster mate, but that is clutching at straws if ever I saw it
Shucks! But it's not the first (and won't be the last and we all have probably never heard of a myriad of others saying it) the linchpin or talisman (or big wage earner) of a team has said that they want to leave and upset the fans. Hell if it wasn't for the soundbite from Ferguson we'd not even have known it. We'd all be speculating on Rooney not appearing at the end of the season.
I don't understand your point Theon Rooney and Scholes are not part of the same generation.
Shame he never kicked on from the 09/10. Fergie admitting that was forcing Rooney's hand he knew the effect it would have and it would put the spotlight on Wayne. No matter how you look at it he is painted as the bad guy. Saying he is not leaving does not mean he wants him to stay you just don't admit you wan to sell a player of Rooney's calibre it puts you at a disadvantage negotiation wise.
It comes down to Moyes and how he sees him in his plans. If he wants to play with one upfront Rooney is not needed as much. Van Persie plays almost every game. It means Hernandez plays more and Welbeck plays upfront more. It is interesting with Hernandez he does scores goals at an amazing rate. But he really does a s well as the team does while someone like Rooney is a matchwinner on his own. So Hernandez getting more minutes could work well or just show us how limited he really is. He has the benefeit of being a super-sub now but can he bring that consistency game in game out? Welbeck is interesting if he ever wants to be a top striker he needs to play upfront more. Learning to lead the line and what decisions to make in certain situations only improves by playing upfront. I wonder where Moyes see's his future. Welbeck is 22/23 now and he needs to push on if he wants to fill his position. The sale of Rooney would initially take some quality out of the starting 11 but it may end up allowing others to grow and improve. Is it a risk Moyes wants to take?
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