You're a total fecking idiot. Apologies for resorting to insults, but seriously, you are.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter gooDevil
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You're a total fecking idiot. Apologies for resorting to insults, but seriously, you are.
Goalwise I would not expect a much lower output from Rooney. It is what he is doing when he does not have the ball that sets RVP apart for me. He is more consistent than Rooney up there also. Rooney does drop deep and defend better but purely as a no.9 Van Persie is more complete.
Go and look at the season rating's thread. A lot had Hernandez above or equal to Rooney, so it certainly isn't a fact that Rooney had a better campaign.
Last season RVP scored 37 goals in 48 games vs 34 in 44 for Rooney. RVP's is a marginally better scoring ratio.
I thought RVP got 30 last season?
If you mean get out of shape, enjoy the good life to much and not live up to the hype I TOTALLY agree
Likewise.
It was akin to having a touch of Ronaldo back at the club again, producing that bit of class that quite frankly Rooney hasn't himself up to in recent times.
Going by what we expect from both players and the opportunities presented to them over the season, Rooney was a worse performer than Hernandez.
Two obvious differences in attitude also.
Nah a lot of the criticism and accusations over the last 100 pages or so have been completely unwarranted and ridiculous. I am not even a Rooney fan and don't even like him all that much but it's quite astonishing how underrated he is on the caf. The only fanboi in this thread has been wr8.
Rooney has had a better season than Hernandez, that shouldn't even be debatable. Yes, he hasn't had the best of seasons but he's been more influential than Hernandez throughout the course of the season.
Thank you JaffyJoe for expressing in better words what would have been my answer to gooDevil.
That was the league only.
Ah, sorry I thought we were talking last season (as in this season just gone) rather than his last season at Arsenal.
'This' season feels like 'last' season now the new kit is here.
This season is now last season, the season at Arsenal was the season before last season, this season is what last season we'd have calleld next season.
I'm sure it's just a coincidence that he wants to play in the position guaranteeing him the most headlines, glory, praise, and highest-possible profile for his brand. Just as it's surely a coincidence that he plays up when there's contract negotiations on the horizon, and the transfer window's soon to open. Mere coincidence, you understand.
Please be kind enough to explain.
In the interview he says he still regards himself as a centre-forward despite some appearances this season in a deeper midfield role. I just don't understand how this is a controversial belief for him to have, having spent most of his career as a forward, or how it in anyway indicates that he is selfish or driven by personal glory.
He even goes on to say that he could see himself playing deeper later in his career.
Valencia, for example, has played some games at right-back but I wouldn't be in any way surprised or apalled to learn that he still sees himself as a right winger.
I just think at the moment that people are trying to jump on anything Rooney says when, in truth, he has said next to nothing since the transfer request was made public, in contrast to his ill-advised statement last time.
I think there is nothing to be gained from reading too much into what is a probably routine interview with Four-four-two. The media are desperately seeking a peep from Rooney on the matter but he hasn't ventured one yet so this interview is the best they have.
With nothing else to quote they are going with the angle that Rooney is demanding to play as a forward based on this interview. I don't understand why we as United fans should direct any barbs in his direction on this basis when he is yet to publicly voice any discontent.
All the above is well-reasoned, mate. However, it's hardly surprising that some (like me) suspect ulterior motives when it comes to discussing Wayne's actions. Add Stretford to the mix, and it's surely easy to understand why some people have grown cynical.
26 in the league, 4 in the cup, 30 overall. Less than Rooney when he played up top. In fact, less than Rooney last season.
Stretford's been doing some talking though, and if Rooney either disagreed or didn't feel it served his best interests he could easily put a halt to it. The tale being spun by his camp that he was seeking assurances as a result of on-pitch matters [being subbed, dropped, moved position] as opposed to salary.
I was talking about his last season at Arsenal
, some weird confusion in the last few postsIt's often overlooked. Rooney scored more last season playing behind Welbeck and Hernandez than RvP has as the main striker this season.
People act like there is some huge gulf between them and RvP is way better than Rooney when its just not true. RvP might be more elegant on the ball but the actual difference is marginal.
I was talking about his last season at Arsenal
Oh right, my bad!
Yeah, 30 in the league for VP at Arsenal in his last season, and 37 overall, more than Rooney's ever managed.
I think I still prefer Rooney, when at his best, up to compared to VP. It's just a matter of how often he is at his best...
Yeah, agree.
Said this before but what makes RVP the better center forward is hold up play which allows him to bring others into play. Rooney is quite poor at this and even Welbeck does a better job at this than Rooney. In all other areas Rooney is as good as RVP and I'd say he's just about the better finisher as well.
Playing upfront than just scoring goals. Some of you are not grasping this. Just listing how many goals when they both play upfront is a very basic way to look at it. Especially when their figures are comparable. Managers will look at the player offers more in other departments. Hence why Van Persie will start ahead of Rooney currently.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.
The original post (gooDevil) stated that Rooney in 2009/10 scored more than RVP ever has in a season. I disputed that as 11/12 RVP scored more in the league and more overall.
If Rooney wants to be the main forward then I honestly respect that. There are many, many better ways of going about it, but that's a different argument. Rooney's should get his head down and get back into form. When he's playing his best he'll be up top with RVP or probably rotating with him.
If he was then getting moved around I'd respect him wanting to leave. You want to be the main man - you play better than the next best player in the position you want.
I can understand people being cynical of Rooney after the last contract negotiations.
I don't understand though how you can see his desire to play as a forward as being part of some ulterior motive for self glorification, having so far been a forward for his career to date.
If tomorrow Sky ran with the headline 'Carrick believes he is best in centre-midfield despite appearances at centre-back' I wouldn't think this was selfish or driven by any ulterior motive. I would just think 'well of course he does, he's a central midfield player, what a stupid article'.
The truth is there's no football on to distract us from this saga so it's just going to drag on and on. So far Rooney has given the media absolutely nothing to write about despite having turned up on England duty and hence probably facing media obligations.
So until he is does make any comment on the matter I don't see why we need to look for something that's not there in any interview that he does give.
Keeping quiet is probably the best thing Rooney can do right now and he's done a decent job of it so far.
I don't think Rooney has a problem with not being the main striker, he played behind the striker in 11/12 with much inferior players ahead of him.
I think his problem is that he wants to play behind the striker all the time and doesn't want to fill in on the wing or play central midfield because of weaknesses there in our team. He obviously wants to break that all time goal scoring record and playing in midfield for a few games probably frustrated him (and being subbed) as well as playing less games this season anyway because of injury. And obviously being dropped for the Real game is one of his problems.
I think his problem is that he wants to play behind the striker all the time and doesn't want to fill in on the wing or play central midfield because of weaknesses there in our team. He obviously wants to break that all time goal scoring record and playing in midfield for a few games probably frustrated him (and being subbed) as well as playing less games this season anyway because of injury. And obviously being dropped for the Real game is one of his problems.
I agree with this. In games when we have been up against it, like in the Bernabau, RVP is capable of getting hold of the ball in tight spaces and retaining the ball in ways Rooney is simply not capable of.
I happen to think Rooney does offer more in other departments, when in form!
Take the last couple of seasons before this one for example, he played behind Hernandez for half a seasn and racked up 20 goals in no time, whilst also being the main creator out of the two, and the season after he and Welbeck played up front, each sharing the responsibility to drop deeper on occasion, and again he managed 34 goals that year.
Say what you want about him but I think his ability to get goals is fantastic, absolutely brilliant. Many a great number ten has never even reached the output that Rooney often provides, even our very own Cantona. Probably on Totti and Rivaldo from the latest twenty years have scored the same amount as Rooney playing as a number ten or second striker.
I've eased up on my posting here, but I've noticed you've come up with some spectacular shite since your promotion.
He gets this too much for my liking. What does it mean with him nowadays. If you spend more time playing badly than you do playing well it is hard to say you are a top player. Rooney is the only top player who people always say when in form to describe how good he is. There is no 'Messi when on form' or 'RVP when on form' etc. you know what you are getting from these players 9/10. I personally don't think he offers more in than Van Persie in terms of being an all round centre forward. Fergie must have found his inconsistency infuriating he goes through long periods of being poor he does it almost every season. As good as he can be you can say he has spent a good chunk of his career being poor also.
Fans of Rooney remember his good day's but want everyone to forget his bad days when they actually go hand in hand are happening more often. That for me is what stops him being a world class player. Quality player 'on his day' but one who I feel will be a risk investing in long term.
Carlton Cole has been released on a free transfer by West Ham today, if ever there was a time to cut Rooney loose it is now.
An average Rooney is still a good player and will get you a good return, just look at his numbers compared to Mata and Bale this season. Off form he can be shocking, I think most would agree, but I think people are forgetting that when playing ok and above he's still an efficient player.
The introduction of Kagawa and Hernandez, with Welbeck also in the mix has added competition for his place, and rightly so he's no longer a guaranteed starter. He needs to earn the right to play in the position he wants to play and hopefully he will realize that before it is too late.
I've sort of swung from being annoyed with him and wanting rid, to thinking we'd be better off with him a couple of times. At the moment I think we could survive without him if we reinvested any cash we got well. However end of the day lets not forget he's someone with alongside RVP is perfectly capable of getting you 30 goals/assists in a good season from a number 10 or 9 role, and generally you'd expect him to hit 20 at least. That's a good return to have. Not many teams can have their 30 goal a season striker injured and have another one just waiting around.
The introduction of Kagawa and Hernandez, with Welbeck also in the mix has added competition for his place, and rightly so he's no longer a guaranteed starter. He needs to earn the right to play in the position he wants to play and hopefully he will realize that before it is too late.
I've sort of swung from being annoyed with him and wanting rid, to thinking we'd be better off with him a couple of times. At the moment I think we could survive without him if we reinvested any cash we got well. However end of the day lets not forget he's someone with alongside RVP is perfectly capable of getting you 30 goals/assists in a good season from a number 10 or 9 role, and generally you'd expect him to hit 20 at least. That's a good return to have. Not many teams can have their 30 goal a season striker injured and have another one just waiting around.
People talking about Rooney's goal hauls against Van Persie's show why you can't use outright stats.
Our supply line hasn't exactly been top notch this year. Our wingers pretty much took the season off, Rooney hasn't often been in top form, certainly not providing a huge amount of assists, and Kagawa has been settling in.
Therefore, VP has done tremendously to bag 30, even with a couple of months off his scoring form.
Imagine how many he'd have scored if he'd had Nani and Valencia in their top form.
Our supply line hasn't exactly been top notch this year. Our wingers pretty much took the season off, Rooney hasn't often been in top form, certainly not providing a huge amount of assists, and Kagawa has been settling in.
Therefore, VP has done tremendously to bag 30, even with a couple of months off his scoring form.
Imagine how many he'd have scored if he'd had Nani and Valencia in their top form.
When a striker hits 30, it always deserves praise. But let's not pretend RvP's scoring potential was blunted by the poor form of wingers - during his lean spell, he missed some very presentable chances.
Isn't he gone yet?
So that's Welbeck starting ahead of Rooney then.
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