might be true. the problem is van persie is the flavor of the year and it is difficult to leave him out of the line up. but you never know, an unwanted injury and this rooney-kagawa thing could be a very deadly partnership for us. rooney however need to get back that hunger of playing and scoring goals first.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
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might be true. the problem is van persie is the flavor of the year and it is difficult to leave him out of the line up. but you never know, an unwanted injury and this rooney-kagawa thing could be a very deadly partnership for us. rooney however need to get back that hunger of playing and scoring goals first.
I'm surprised we didn't see it more. The half an hour Fergie dared to try it against Norwich after he subbed RvP off, Rooney gave Kagawa two assists and scored a screamer himself. At the very least it showed an understanding between the two players and good potential to develop something.
I found the whole RvP thing a bit odd. I know he had a good season but there were times he wasn't scoring and Hernandez was chomping at the bit to get involved and Rooney was on a hot run of form. Just thought playing him in every league game and a good chunk of the cups was unnecessary. There were combinations of Rooney, Kagawa and Hernandez that could have been used imo.
Im still sure that was the original plan, but when RvP became available it was too good to resist.
So it seems to be all about assurances rather than greed ,or so he would like you to believe.
Its the new shiny toy scenario. The love in with RVP was still ripe, and fergie wanted to play him every second possible. Whether that was the right thing to do who knows, but I suppose when he hit his dry patch, he wanted to keep playing him to get through it, rather than bench him and label him a flop or whatever.
completely agree with this.
I mean, I sort of get it, I just don't agree with it.
RvP had a great season for us, but it's true that he was pretty much exempt from criticism (by both Fergie and the caf). IMO Fergie played him a bit too often, or should I say has shown too much favouritism to him compared to others, especialy Rooney, even when taking into account that RvP had the better season.
And Kagawa has been exactly the reason why I wasn't too sure about us signing RvP in the first place...that's not to say I regret signing RvP because that's really not the case, but playing Kagawa behind Rooney made so much sense when the signing was announced, and like you said those 2 have shown they can play together efficiently.
and yeah, I guess I was right in assuming Rooney just wanted reassurance of his worth to this team after last season, asking for more money really made no sense at all.
I just hope Moyes manages to keep Rooney, RvP, Hernandez, Kagawa and Welbeck happy....that should really be one of the toughest parts of his job...
You quite often mention this apparent favouritism SAF showed RvP last season, how do you feel about the many times over the last 9 years where Rooney has been out of form yet continually starts games and doesn't get subbed? Is that somehow ok, yet its not ok to apply the same criteria to an arguably superior player?
An off colour Rooney hasn't kept a player of RVP's quality and standing benched (or shunted wide, or whatever) many times over the last nine years, though.
Only because we haven't had a player of that quality....a situation which apparently Rooney himself wanted rectifying if you believe his last contract tantrum....as the old saying goes, be careful what you wish for.
I don't understand this point of view. You weren't sure about signing RVP because two inferior players were already on our books?
I'd say it's pretty indisputable that RVP is the best out and out centre forward at the club. Rooney is currently better than Kagawa in the number 10 position. Surely with that logic you'd be far more unsure about the Kagawa signing, rather than the RVP signing?
From what I've seen I'd say Rooney-RVP > Kagawa-RVP > Kagawa-Rooney.
In fact I'd go one step further and say: Rooney-RVP > Kagawa-RVP > RVP-Hernandez > Kagawa-Rooney
It wasn't too long ago that Rooney was 'undroppable' no matter how terrible he was playing.
Only because we haven't had a player of that quality....a situation which apparently Rooney himself wanted rectifying if you believe his last contract tantrum....as the old saying goes, be careful what you wish for.
True, of course. But this was about favouritism - or the new toy syndrome. Would Fergie have insisted on playing an off form Rooney if he had other alternatives at hand? I'd say no - not least after the "incident" a few years ago.
All academic, naturally. For several seasons after Ronaldo left Fergie certainly had no better offensive player than Rooney - and thus relied heavily on him, whether he liked it or not.
And we hated it.
I don't know about quite often, but yeah, there was definitely favouritism towards RvP...and there's a difference between the two, since Rooney was mostly undroppable due to the fact that we didn't have players "around" his quality to play had SAF decided to bench him.
You should be able to admit that given our current squad, dropping a striker or center forward because he's not in form should be doable because of the talent we have that can effectively replace said player.
I'm not saying Rooney should've always been undroppable, just that it made more sense because of our (lack of) depth at the time, while now we have more than adequate back-up if Rooney or RvP were to go through a rough patch...but while Rooney got dropped and shifted to other positions RvP remained as the #1 option up top regardless of form.
First of all, as great as RvP has been (obviously our player of the year along with Carrick), I'm not willing to call Rooney inferior to him because of a rough season. Just like I wasn't willing to call Nani inferior to Valencia last year because of the same thing.
Second, yes...I wasn't sure...and this has been discussed to death and back...RvP wasn't/isn't exactly young, prior to current events he was deemed as injury prone, and at the time when his signing was announced we have already had Rooney coming off a great goalscoring season, Chicharito, Welbeck having a breakout year and have just signed the gem that is Kagawa.
On top of that our midfield was and still is in need of improvement, while our striker department never looked like a weak spot and I was of the opinion that money would've been better spent on our midfield.
You do realise we signed Kagawa before RvP right?
At the time Kagawa was signed another CF was more than welcome, especialy one of his calibre after what he had been doing at BvB, I don't think anyone here was in doubt of Kagawa to be honest...had it been the other way around then maybe yes, but purely because of the number of players already battling for those positions.
And I'll say it again just so noone gets the wrong idea...I love the fact that RvP signed for United, I don't regret it for one second...I will admit though that he has been very much Fergie's favorite in his last year and that before he signed I wasn't quite sure about him, etc. (most of all because our midfield still hasn't been sorted out while we've been splashing 15-25m on players who play anywhere else except the midfield)
Let's assume that this was the "assurance" Rooney went into the meeting looking for and that a refusal by Fergie prompted him to play the other card that he and Stretford had agreed upon, that should still see United facilitating his heartfelt desire to be somewhere else IMO.
To say nothing of the financial grounds it represents an unreasonable sense of entitlement and the likelihood of trouble in the future were the club not to comply as the player wished.
To say nothing of the financial grounds it represents an unreasonable sense of entitlement and the likelihood of trouble in the future were the club not to comply as the player wished.
RVP is simply better than him at that role so I don't know how this can be solved
Two up front or rotate the pair but I can't see either of them being happy sat on the bench.
I'm not certain that RvP is better than him in that role in all honesty.
I thinks I'd prefer Kagawa playing behind Rooney rather than RVP.
I thinks I'd prefer Kagawa playing behind Rooney rather than RVP.
I'd prefer Kagawa off RVP personally as I think RVP is a better link up player and much more reliable with the ball. Either way I don't see why if Rooney works on his concentration etc he, RVP and Kagawa can't operate well as a unit. No reason Kagawa and Rooney can't swap from coming from slightly wider to playing right behind RVP, in fact RVP is comfortable operating in wider areas as well. It just needs more time to gel. If we sort the midfield out so that it's a bit more stable then hopefully we won't need both wide players working back quite so hard as regularly which would allow whoever is there, Kagawa, Rooney etc more licence to drift.
I'm usually a forgiving fella, but not this time. Rooney can stay for all care, but he'll remain the only United player I neither like nor respect. Stupidity and "recklessness" are no longer good enough excuses for me. He has treated our beloved club like a bitch twice in three years now. To make matters worse, he told the newspapers that United is the only club in his heart, that he heavily regretted his 2010 transfer request, and that he'd like to play for United as long as possible. This was merely 8 months ago. Sorry Wayne, but that's just not good enough.
Keeping Rooney now would be a massive blow to United's integrity in my opinion. If Rooney stays, then we can no longer boldly claim that "no player is bigger than the club". We can no longer laugh at City for relying on cnuts like Tevez. But maybe more importantly; we seem weak to the rest of the world. When we let a player who's not even among the 10 best players in the world treat us like this, then it must make people wonder about how strong and confident we actually are.
I don't know how many other United fans will feel the same way, though.
Keeping Rooney now would be a massive blow to United's integrity in my opinion. If Rooney stays, then we can no longer boldly claim that "no player is bigger than the club". We can no longer laugh at City for relying on cnuts like Tevez. But maybe more importantly; we seem weak to the rest of the world. When we let a player who's not even among the 10 best players in the world treat us like this, then it must make people wonder about how strong and confident we actually are.
I don't know how many other United fans will feel the same way, though.
If he changes his mind and decides that he wants stay there will have to be a paycut in any new deal proposed by United, these events and recent form can hardly be ignored in such a process after all. Would he agree to humble himself sufficiently like that or down tools and put out feelers across Europe with the season only weeks away?
It's perfectly clear that Wayne likes to feck with everybody, once in a while. All the critical news that he's leaving to City, PSG and other speculations are there for a simple reason - a new contract.
Sir Alex was quite tolerant for Wayne's behaviour but I don't think Moyes will be. He knows Wayne more than anyone and if the stupidity of the boy will get in the way of David's work, here, in the new club, it may cost Rooney more than just a kick in his fat ego.
I'm just glad that he stopped using this cheap badger game that creates drama and finally starting to say what he really mean. He may get games as a typical striker but he better be professional about it and start act like one.
He changes his mind about what position he wants to be in all the time anyway. Not too long ago he was talking up his role as a number 10 because he likes to get involved in the play more.
Either way, he sure went about playing his newfound favored position in an odd way this season. You'd think he'd try that much harder to prove he's the man for the job, instead he sulked around and pouted and generally looked the least motivated he ever has while at the club. Rise to the challenge or feck off, but mostly feck off anyway now.
Either way, he sure went about playing his newfound favored position in an odd way this season. You'd think he'd try that much harder to prove he's the man for the job, instead he sulked around and pouted and generally looked the least motivated he ever has while at the club. Rise to the challenge or feck off, but mostly feck off anyway now.
If we were already on XenForo I would give your post a "Like".
Don't know why some people are interpreting Wayne's Four Four Two comments as being about his future role at United, despite his brief mention of the club. He's quite canny for a supposedly stupid person.
It just implies that that is the role he wants to be playing whether it be at United or elsewhere. I would assume if he's saying it now it means he wanted that role last season as well.
Van Persie and Carrick were our two best players this season. They both played a massive amount of games because of this. You play your best players, it's not favouritism it's common sense. Is it favouritism that Ronaldo or Messi or even Evra play every week if fit?
Hernandez' performances were better than Rooney's this season and he didn't get a crazy amount of game time. That's the nature of being at a top club. I also don't really understand this "not in form" stance presumably regarding RVP? Is this the 3-4 games in which he didn't play great, along with 3-4 where he played well but didn't score?
It reminds me of the drivel that people said when Carrick was apparently a scape-goat when he was playing crap. He wasn't a scape-goat, he was playing crap! Now he's playing really well he's getting recognised as such.
What exactly makes you right? I still maintain he's nervous that his next contract is going to be substantially lower because he's older, less fit and not performing. I don't think he necessarily wants a pay rise, but I'm certain he'll want a 3 year extension if he stays. It's whether the club will give it him, as he's a different player than he was 3 years ago.
When RVP goes through a rough patch that lasts more than a couple of games he will be rotated. Likewise if Rooney is on fire he'll play behind RVP every single important game (or instead of RVP if he's playing poorly), even if he has 3-4 poor games. Unfortunately If he is playing poorly for half a season, he'll get shifted around to benefit the team. A thing which actually didn't happen as much as people would have you believe. As Fergie said - a Rooney in form wouldn't be on the bench.
I'd call him inferior because I believe since January 2011 RVP has consistently put in performances to match Rooney's best ever performances. The difference is Rooney did it sporadically in 2011, 2009 and 2007, whereas RVP has now done it for (on a whole) his last 125 games.
To me it's like comparing Robben to Ronaldo. At his best Robben's level is similar to Ronaldo's, the difference is the latter has proven that he can do it on a regular basis.
If Rooney could find that consistently he'd be (along with RVP) one of the top 5 players in the world.
I do. An unrelated question: would you have preferred to sign RVP or Kagawa?
He's better than Rooney up top. The quality of is finishing is something else. I thought we didn't need RVP until he started banging the goals in and I realised that we just hadn't had that quality of finishing for a number of years.
I actually think Van Persie is a better player overall than the Rooney we've seen for the last season or two.
Not necessarily. He was probably asked about it and so he commented on it. I doubt he went out of his way to make a point about it.
No they weren't. This is what's wrong with this thread, the Rooney haters talking complete fecking nonsense to back up their theories which makes posters who actually rate Rooney Rooney for what he is look like fan boys
Not just finishing too, the way he brings others into play, the way he can create chances.Rooney is a very good player up front but RVP is simply better there
When Rooney played up top for us in 2009/10 he scored more goals in a season than Persie ever has.
Yes Persie is the Rolls Royce and Rooney is more of a semi-truck, but all goals count the same.
Well that's partially because they come across as fanboys. Just about all of Rooney's critics here bar Sparky (as he admits) & the usual one-liner-then-disappear posters have tried to be objective & maintained that, should Rooney rediscover his zest, we'd be more than happy for him to stay; most of the emotional responses have come from Rooney's defenders. Our speculation as to Wayne's motives are more than matched by the blindness when it comes to Rooney's faults - critics aren't merely imagining that Wayne's heart isn't in it anymore, regarding Manchester United, and it's a cop-out to class those posters as typical conspiracy theorists with a grudge.
I've said RVP was a pretty poor signing since it became official. The only way to let the two play together is in a 4-4-2 and that formation and strategy is dead.
If we had signed a left winger for 25 mill instead of RVP we would have done even better or equally good and would have less positions to "fill" this season with transfers.
Does people still think buying RVP was such a genius stroke considering it off-set the morale of Rooney? It was very easy to predict the outcome of that as well.
If we had signed a left winger for 25 mill instead of RVP we would have done even better or equally good and would have less positions to "fill" this season with transfers.
Does people still think buying RVP was such a genius stroke considering it off-set the morale of Rooney? It was very easy to predict the outcome of that as well.
Neymar June 2016
He was also recently quoted saying England don't have anyone to trouble them before the England Brazil game
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