He most likely does need a new challenge.
I think selling him would be a great move if we can use the funds to partly splurge on Bale
I think selling him would be a great move if we can use the funds to partly splurge on Bale
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter gooDevil
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We know what he is capable of, and you don't lose that class over night. People can say what they want, but if he signed for Chelsea or whoever, and found that spark that makes him the player he is, he will come back to haunt us. We are capable of playing without him, but when he is at his best and enjoying his football, there aren't to many in the Premier League who are as strong all round as Rooney. As I said a couple of days ago, you don't get to play for a club like United without some sort of 'ego' and to have been left out of a Champions League Quarter Final again Madrid will have stung that pride. I'd be worried if it didn't to be honest.
He looks like a player low on confidence, but as I say, if he can regain it, and find that spark that makes him England's finest, then we still have a quality, quality player on our hands. If he goes, he goes, but I would rather have Wayne Rooney in a Manchester United shirt. Simple as that. I think it will be a case of David Moyes and a couple of senior players putting there arm round him, and setting him straight. We aren't the same team without Wayne Rooney, and with that confidence, there aren't many better in the league for me.
He looks like a player low on confidence, but as I say, if he can regain it, and find that spark that makes him England's finest, then we still have a quality, quality player on our hands. If he goes, he goes, but I would rather have Wayne Rooney in a Manchester United shirt. Simple as that. I think it will be a case of David Moyes and a couple of senior players putting there arm round him, and setting him straight. We aren't the same team without Wayne Rooney, and with that confidence, there aren't many better in the league for me.
Aye, that's the thing. He's become an incredibly divisive character around here - and among United fans in general, it seems. Can't remember the last time we had a player who to that extent divided fans' opinions.
And it will only escalate, I think, if he does stay on. He would have to start performing like Messi to make the harshest of his critics get off his case - and that won't happen.
About the only thing which can "save" his reputation now, as far the nay-side goes, is that Moyes convinces him to stay, plays him purely up front, and Rooney himself responds by banging them in.
In his present, deeper lying role he will never satisfy those who have decided he's fat, a boozer, bored of the game, etc. He didn't have an awful game for England - not by any stretch. Did alright in a match that was never going to be more than a fairly tame kickabout - yet people read all sorts of things into it. He can't win these days with some people - that's the truth. Perhaps he's had it coming for some time now - but it ain't very objective nevertheless.
When was the last time this happened? And please. Dont exaggerate
Your thoughts about his ability as a player is probably correct but you don't see the big picture and your solution is a short term fix.
Let's be objective. We talk about a character who have asked for a transfer request two times in three years. The first one was public and at that time he questioned the clubs ambition. What does his actions tells you?
As the clubs highest earner do you think his overal contribution match his income? Let's compare. Messi. Ronaldo. Zlatan. They are all their clubs highest earners, they all share Rooneys status as their clubs talisman and they all have a set up regarding formation and tactics to fit their style of play. Is it fair to say that all these three players are worth their income? Is it fair to say that they all are their clubs best players, without a shadow of a doubt? Compare this with Wayne Rooney.
Can United and Moyes return more value for £250k/month (or whatever it is) if they chose to invest in another quality player or players?
If Moyes first priority is when he enter his new job is to "putting there arm round him, and setting him straight", what does this tell the other players? How will this affect his authority to have to beg his star player to stay and play for him because we are short of options or afraid "he will haunt us" if he changes club.
Part of being an executive is to take un popular decisions. To look was it best in the long term perspective and to see the overal picture without being afraid of letting short term results clouds your view. Strong leaders know instinctly when they have somebody who steps outside the line. The standard rule is to straight the line immediately before you end up with a wild bunch who doesn't listen or know where to go. You can't in a effective way move forward if everybody with a strong will can question you decisions whenever it's suits them. I honestly think that when Sir Alex heard Rooney for a second time ask for a transfer request he was fed up with him. His request wasn't worth an answer and from that moment Rooney was nobody in the old mans heart. What do you think?
From the outside we don't know all the ins and outs but for me, from what I have been reading, this is a simple decision to make. I heard Gills, Fergies and Gary Neville's comments about him going nowhere but I expect this to be a way to buy Moyes time and freedom before the final decision will be taken.
It does create an interesting dilemma for Moyes coming in. I think 7even is correct that Moyes convincing Rooney to stay would not be a "strong" decision, and could make the new manager look weak, and also gives the impression that Rooney is bigger than the club.
In all honesty, if Moyes plans to primarily use a 1-striker system then we are if anything overstocked up front. 4 first team strikers is a lot for if we are only playing 1 at a time, and so it would mean someone potentially playing out wide or in midfield again, which in all likelihood would be Rooney. If Rooney goes then we are left with 3 strikers, plus Kagawa and I would just keep Henriquez as a backup/4th choice/league cup etc.
I think that when you look at the wages he is in, and the amount we could sell him for, we could reinvest that money and end up a stronger side all round.
In all honesty, if Moyes plans to primarily use a 1-striker system then we are if anything overstocked up front. 4 first team strikers is a lot for if we are only playing 1 at a time, and so it would mean someone potentially playing out wide or in midfield again, which in all likelihood would be Rooney. If Rooney goes then we are left with 3 strikers, plus Kagawa and I would just keep Henriquez as a backup/4th choice/league cup etc.
I think that when you look at the wages he is in, and the amount we could sell him for, we could reinvest that money and end up a stronger side all round.
Moyes will look weak if he wants Rooney to stay? Bollocks.
Rooney is one of the best in the World - it's not weak if he wants Rooney to stay at all. It's just common sense. You want to keep your best players. You fight to keep them.
I'm not saying that the club should offer him a new deal that's a huge wage prize.
Rooney is one of the best in the World - it's not weak if he wants Rooney to stay at all. It's just common sense. You want to keep your best players. You fight to keep them.
I'm not saying that the club should offer him a new deal that's a huge wage prize.
Everybody knows he wants to move but no club of status shows public interest. Compare to Madrids interest in Bale. What does this tells you?
Bayern - Thanks but no thanks.
Barcelona - Good player but he's not on our list.
The only club I heard is intersted is PSG, but so far no official statement. Maybe the cold truth is that he's not worth what we want for him and that the wages he's on scares other clubs. Just a thought.
It tells you that you shouldn't pay so much fecking attention to the crap that gets spouted in newspapers or twitter.
Don't agree with that. The way I see it is this. Next season is a huge one for the club. Absolutely huge. We have a knew man coming in to replace possibly the greatest manager of all time, and we have lost coaching staff who know what it takes to be winners. That winning mentality needs to be brought out by the players now, and Wayne Rooney is just that. A winner. Even when he's not in form, you never get anything less than 100%. Every single time. Like I say, if Moyes and the senior players at the club put there arm round him and set him straight, I think he will stay. People can say what they like but the fact still remains that he is our most influential player, and that was shown at times last season. I don't think there is another player in the Premier League who would be capable of playing that pass that he produced for RVP's goal against Villa. Not one. As for the whole 'statement' thing - how exactly is selling one of your best players a wise move? Like an earlier poster pointed out, it's common sense. To have been left out of the Madrid game will have hurt him, and when you add another couple of games here and there, that takes it's toll when you are a player of Rooney's quality.
As I say, at his best Wayne Rooney is the ideal definition of a Manchester United player for me. Heart, courage, passion and as strong an all round game as anyone in the league. He has suffered with injuries over the past year but when he has got himself out on the field, and has done for a sustained period he has played well in my opinion. He is absolutely crucial to what we do in an attacking sense - especially in the final third. There are very few players capable of lifting a side single handidly, and Wayne Rooney is one of them. He links everything together for us and as I say - he is still our most influential player for me.
If Robin Van Persie wasn't at the club he would be considered in a different light. No doubt about that. What you have to remember though is that they are a pair. When Rooney wasn't playing early in the season we struggled, and although we are capable of winning games without him, we miss him when he's not there. He isn't your 'touch' number 10 like David Silva but as I keep saying; his allround game is so strong. People wax miracles when Nani skips round his marker, or when Carrick reads a pass, but you tend not to hear anything when Rooney smacks one in from 30 years, and busts a gut to get back and help out defensively. That passion is what this club is all about, and I fail to see how Moyes releasing him for a statement is the right way to go about things.
As fans, I honestly think we need to take some of the blame for his loss of form. I am sick of hearing people continuously slag him off around me in ST2, and I'm not just talking the odd complaint here and there. Both at club and International pressure we have rested all our hopes on him. Time and time again, and when he doesn't deliver, he is practically publicly humiliated for it. As I say, I hope he stays because he is a top player, and we need him in the side. If he went to Chelsea or whoever, he would come back to bite us. No question about that.
Thanks for letting me know. The only time I look at Twatter is when I read Redcafe but I will follow your advice and be more carefull.
It's interesting that Rooney creates so much emotions, after all he's not exactly a role model and his behaviur is easy to judge without being biased. Maybe supporters outside Great Britain have a different view then locals, I don't know but he even devides Uniteds supporters in a way that is extraordinary.
I think you will find the word is Whiner.....Every single time.......how does missing two games because "He didn't feel like playing" giving 100%? How about not being ready until about September despite playing in a league that begins in august for almost a decade? Or not being able to get fit without a mid season USA break?
Apart from the deluded claim that the supporters are somehow to blame for his regular and repeated losses of form you wonder why he gets slated when he doesn't deliver? Lets revisit shall we? He threatened to leave the club unless getting what he wants, whether that was a massive new contract or new players depends on what you believe, If A: It shows him for the money grabbing classless cnut he is by publicly questioning the ambition and quality of a SAF side purely for money.
If B: He wanted the quality of the team improved that suggests he thinks he is a cut above the existing players, and if you are going to come out with that kind of arrogant crap you damn well better be putting in the performances and SURE AS feck better not have another tantrum because the players that came in.......that you asked for... are performing better than you resulting in you getting benched.
When you look at it objectively there is only 2 real outcomes:
1) He stays and best case signs a 2 or 3 year extension, which means we'll be paying £50-65m to have him for 4-5 more years
2) He leaves for probably £25-35m
Obviously that means the disparity between having Rooney for the next 4-5 years and not having him is £75-100m.
The question isn't whether Rooney adds something to the team, it's whether he adds £18-20m per season to the team. My opinion is that consistently, he does not (I'd say only 2-3 players in the Premier League do, to be honest).
1) He stays and best case signs a 2 or 3 year extension, which means we'll be paying £50-65m to have him for 4-5 more years
2) He leaves for probably £25-35m
Obviously that means the disparity between having Rooney for the next 4-5 years and not having him is £75-100m.
The question isn't whether Rooney adds something to the team, it's whether he adds £18-20m per season to the team. My opinion is that consistently, he does not (I'd say only 2-3 players in the Premier League do, to be honest).
Maybe you added an extra zero by mistake.
That's complete nonsense though. When he's not on form he can range from still being effective to being the most useless player on our side. There's been enough performances this season alone where you can see he isn't giving his all, not just that, but he actually doesn't look motivated. There's been games this season where he's been subbed off for Hernandez, and the difference between the two is so clear it's insane.
Giving 100% isn't a reason to keep someone, Alan Smith would give 100%, doesn't mean he's good enough. Rooney's been pretty wank quite regularly this season causing Fergie to sub him off regularly - got nothing to do with percentages I'm afraid, although he didn't exactly work his socks off in every game this season either if that's your argument.
I don't disagree with your opinions about his football ability, maybe I'm a little more sceptical then you about his influence and i don't think he always gives 100% but that's pedantic picks. And i also think that Kagawa can offer similar end product as a nr 10 together with RvP. But let's agree to have different views.
Roonye's main problem is making good judgement outside the field and to pick the right people to represent him. So far his PR team is doing a terrible job. Secondly his transfer request is a good proof of that. Listen to what Sir Alex said. He would never drop a Rooney on form. If a player can't accept this then the manager have a problem.
Honestly, with all my wisdom and experience, there is no way back after this. You can't brake up with your wife twice and then ask for forgiveness and hope she open up the bedroom door just because you are an ace in the bed. Emotions is also a factor and Moyes also have a history with Rooney.
Sorry to say but I don't feel his heart is pumping for United any longer, the love is gone. Let go and find a new hot model is my advice.
I have no way of knowing whether or not Rooney stays, but I do know we'll be sorry if he doesn't (I'm talking about the vast majority, leaving you out of this one Sparky).
We all know he's a very capable player and on his day he's one of the best in the world (apart from the 2 demigods obviously).
Yes, he doesn't seem as happy at the moment, but that's all tied up into 1 thing basicaly. If Rooney was playing regularly he wouldn't have this temper tantrum and we'd see him enjoy his football again, I really believe that.
Now, I'm not saying he had a terrific season, especialy going by his standards, but he was still pretty good.
He hardly ever played in the striker position, spent a lot of time out on the left or dropping deep (or playing as an actual midfielder), and still managed to have the same number of goals and assists as Mata with 7 less games played, someone who the majority claim has had a great season, and his goal/assist to minute ratio this season has been really good as well (pretty sure it was better than Suarez's - another player who had a fantastic season).
And that's Rooney's production in a dissapointing season, and I for one have found no reason to assume Rooney will continue doing a "Torres" for the next couple of seasons.
We don't know exactly what kind of relationship Rooney and Moyes have at the moment, but I don't think it's as bad as some of you make it out to be, or else Moyes wouldn't give a flying feck if Rooney wanted a move, regardless of his talents.
And although they already know eachother, I think everybody on the team from the players to the staff see this as a new challenge, everybody basicaly starts from scratch. This could be a good thing for Rooney, in a way he could use a "reset" button here.
Obviously we'd be able to cope without Rooney, but it would by no means be a good thing or even an irrelevant thing.
Let's not let the fact that we have a strong enough squad (unlike a couple of years ago) cloud our judgments and make us think we'd be "just fine" without Rooney, because we wouldn't be as strong whichever way you try to put it.
Couple that with the fact that the majority of the people at the club want to keep hold of Rooney, and it hardly seems like he's hell bent on leaving, but more or less threw a temper tantrum in regards to playing time, I think there's a pretty realistic chance he'll stay and I've no doubt in my mind he'll improve next season, there's just no way all of this change around the club isn't a factor in regards to "starting from scratch".
In any case, whether it be for United or another team, Rooney's next season will be a noticable improvement over this season's. This was probably as low as his ego/self-confidence can drop, with a new manager and a new system (if he stays) he should improve in both ways (phisicaly and mentaly).
We all know he's a very capable player and on his day he's one of the best in the world (apart from the 2 demigods obviously).
Yes, he doesn't seem as happy at the moment, but that's all tied up into 1 thing basicaly. If Rooney was playing regularly he wouldn't have this temper tantrum and we'd see him enjoy his football again, I really believe that.
Now, I'm not saying he had a terrific season, especialy going by his standards, but he was still pretty good.
He hardly ever played in the striker position, spent a lot of time out on the left or dropping deep (or playing as an actual midfielder), and still managed to have the same number of goals and assists as Mata with 7 less games played, someone who the majority claim has had a great season, and his goal/assist to minute ratio this season has been really good as well (pretty sure it was better than Suarez's - another player who had a fantastic season).
And that's Rooney's production in a dissapointing season, and I for one have found no reason to assume Rooney will continue doing a "Torres" for the next couple of seasons.
We don't know exactly what kind of relationship Rooney and Moyes have at the moment, but I don't think it's as bad as some of you make it out to be, or else Moyes wouldn't give a flying feck if Rooney wanted a move, regardless of his talents.
And although they already know eachother, I think everybody on the team from the players to the staff see this as a new challenge, everybody basicaly starts from scratch. This could be a good thing for Rooney, in a way he could use a "reset" button here.
Obviously we'd be able to cope without Rooney, but it would by no means be a good thing or even an irrelevant thing.
Let's not let the fact that we have a strong enough squad (unlike a couple of years ago) cloud our judgments and make us think we'd be "just fine" without Rooney, because we wouldn't be as strong whichever way you try to put it.
Couple that with the fact that the majority of the people at the club want to keep hold of Rooney, and it hardly seems like he's hell bent on leaving, but more or less threw a temper tantrum in regards to playing time, I think there's a pretty realistic chance he'll stay and I've no doubt in my mind he'll improve next season, there's just no way all of this change around the club isn't a factor in regards to "starting from scratch".
In any case, whether it be for United or another team, Rooney's next season will be a noticable improvement over this season's. This was probably as low as his ego/self-confidence can drop, with a new manager and a new system (if he stays) he should improve in both ways (phisicaly and mentaly).
I fond it so strange. When Ronaldo said " only God knows" this forum was full of negative comments, many of you was among the posters who criticized him for this answer. Because of Fergie he stayed an extra season but we still managed to get full value when he was sold. No bad words against the manager and the club, in fact the opposite. Even today Sir Alex value Ronaldo as high as he can and he never say anything bad against his former star. Compare this to Rooney.
Even if there is a legal contract any relationship is built on trust and loyalty. Does this simple things don't apply when Wazza is involved? Breaking up once is extremely bad but the club forgive him and gave him a significant pay raise to show their commitment and trust. The years tic and we once again win the PL in grace. We lose to Madrid because of a unfortunate decision against us, but most important Fergie's tactic and formation was spot on. Our team played well without our so called best player didn't participated. Did young Wayne take notice and starts to work harder to prove his worth?
I cant understand this logic. I cant understand this double standards. And I cant se why Wayne Rooney deserve a second chance others don't have.
Even if there is a legal contract any relationship is built on trust and loyalty. Does this simple things don't apply when Wazza is involved? Breaking up once is extremely bad but the club forgive him and gave him a significant pay raise to show their commitment and trust. The years tic and we once again win the PL in grace. We lose to Madrid because of a unfortunate decision against us, but most important Fergie's tactic and formation was spot on. Our team played well without our so called best player didn't participated. Did young Wayne take notice and starts to work harder to prove his worth?
I cant understand this logic. I cant understand this double standards. And I cant se why Wayne Rooney deserve a second chance others don't have.
Like I said, he needs to have a word with the senior players at the club - players who have been here for a while and have seen situations like this before. I don't think he is someone who will make a rash decision, and he needs to surround himself with the right people who will give him the right advice. I can see why people have had enough of him and so have I to some extent but he is a quality player who I generally believe would succeed wherever he went.
Being at a club like United means that you are going to have to go through some tough spells mentally. He has been England's main man for a long time now and again, to have been left out of the games he was last season will have hurt him, and I would be concerned if it didn't. The top players at this club are the ones who are mentally strong enough to push through the tough times and keep going, and that is where Rooney is lacking for me. He is a great player, but mentally he struggles. What I will say though is that there are players here capable of pushing him through this spell and they are the people he needs to be surrounding himself by.
Being at a club like United means that you are going to have to go through some tough spells mentally. He has been England's main man for a long time now and again, to have been left out of the games he was last season will have hurt him, and I would be concerned if it didn't. The top players at this club are the ones who are mentally strong enough to push through the tough times and keep going, and that is where Rooney is lacking for me. He is a great player, but mentally he struggles. What I will say though is that there are players here capable of pushing him through this spell and they are the people he needs to be surrounding himself by.
But if he was playing anywhere near to his best form he WOULD be playing regularly. His contract is play for Manchester United. Not to play as Utds number 9, not to play "when he feels like playing", and not to play when he agrees with the manager. Having a player who is such a prima donna that he only wants to play when its under his terms is a very dangerous thing. Even with my dislike for the spud faced chancer I could have put up with him staying right up until the "hes not playing because he doesn't feel like it" episode of the last two weeks of the season. He is a spoilt immature brat and the sooner he is gone the better.
What if he ends up signing a three year contract and Kagawa steps up a gear next season and keeps him out of the team on a regular basis? will he try and sort himself out and compete for his place, or will he throw another tantrum in the summer?
I think that it's the latter and I personally don't think that he's worth all of the hassle anymore.
I think that it's the latter and I personally don't think that he's worth all of the hassle anymore.
But Backrow.......he is in his late 20s and been a fixture in our team for almost a decade.......he IS one of the senior players and as such is supposed to be able to be trusted as a role model for the younger members of the team, how can he do that when he is acting like a spoilt child himself?
Agreed. I'd much rather see Kagawa cement a place in the team playing his proper position. I've had enough of Rooney's antics.
Christ! It's like people feel we are nothing without Rooney. Using Rooney's top form as a reason not to sell is a bit much for me. When was the last time he was in top form? Played out of position? I remember him playing as a no 10 in a lot of our games this season. But no he's mostly been played out of position and ended up the on the left or quite deep in midfield. Despite the fact Rooney chose to drop deep even though his starting position would be as a 10. He does it a lot just to link midfield and attack. Does that mean he's playing out of position? I don't think so. He's been doing this for a while now but now it becomes convenient to point it out and claim he's playing out of position? Sorry not buying it.
There have been very few games where he's started out on the wing. There have been a few occasions where he was asked to go out wide later in the game. The stint in CM was very brief. Only a few games yet some posters would have you believe it's been going on all season. At the very most he's played as an advanced midfielder. If you're trying to be pedantic, how different is that from playing in the hole?
We have given Rooney chances to deliver and from a statistical point of view he has done alright. Performance-wise, it's been all over the place sprinkled with moments of quality. He's a very good player and usually done very well in the big games but I feel too much is made of his qualities because he just has not been in top form for me. Some fans say we're too harsh on Wayne. Yet these are the same fans praising him to the high heavens. Saying he gives 100% in every game. No matter what position he plays in, he gives his all. Or the fans should take some blame. The majority belt out "Rooney! Rooney! Rooney!" so I'm not sure what's going on there. It goes both ways, if you're going to give Wayne such praise, then be prepared to receive some not so positive feedback in return. I dont see him giving 100% in every game so how am I supposed to take your opinion seriously without thinking you're just regurgitating recycled opinions?
For me, Rooney hasn't done enough. He should have pushed on when Kagawa and van Persie arrived but he hasn't. That's why I think he was shifted around more towards the end of the season. You've got to produce. If he doesn't like being subbed off, then he needs to be doing more. If he doesn't see that, then we have a problem. You just don't get in the lineup by default. Ye feckin earn it. Should he stay? I think so. No other club really wants him and if he gets his act together then he'll re-establish himself as one of our main men again. Right now, some are doubting his (and I stress) current status within the team.
Now let me address something else. I doubt many will agree with me but I am honestly fed up with all this whinging going on if Rooney does leave. We will move on with or without him. With SAF gone, some questions arise in terms of how Moyes would move the team forward if Rooney does leave but unlike past years, we have a very deep squad. If he goes to Chelsea so what? He would no longer be our player while they'd be getting a quality player, but I'm not going to be losing any sleep over it. The best scenario obviously is for him to go abroad. He's one player and one who is very good but I think we did just fine when Ronaldo left. At that time, we regarded him as the best player in the world and many thought we were a spent force but we still moved on. That's the expectation that Moyes will have when he comes in. Helping us move forward and continuing the work Sir Alex has built. I doubt we'll have as much success but Moyes seems like the type of manager who can handle losing a quality player. I mean ffs, they lost Arteta and have still done quite well. Are we worse off if Rooney leaves? Only time will tell. Football is a funny game. Losing Ruud and Becks was unfortunate but it seemed necessary to move forward. Ronaldo and Rooney took the mantle a few years later and we won the league back in style in 06/07. It's possible we could become better without him but such a scenario doesn't usually happen when a quality player leaves. Nonetheless, I'm confident we'll be fine if Rooney leaves.
There have been very few games where he's started out on the wing. There have been a few occasions where he was asked to go out wide later in the game. The stint in CM was very brief. Only a few games yet some posters would have you believe it's been going on all season. At the very most he's played as an advanced midfielder. If you're trying to be pedantic, how different is that from playing in the hole?
We have given Rooney chances to deliver and from a statistical point of view he has done alright. Performance-wise, it's been all over the place sprinkled with moments of quality. He's a very good player and usually done very well in the big games but I feel too much is made of his qualities because he just has not been in top form for me. Some fans say we're too harsh on Wayne. Yet these are the same fans praising him to the high heavens. Saying he gives 100% in every game. No matter what position he plays in, he gives his all. Or the fans should take some blame. The majority belt out "Rooney! Rooney! Rooney!" so I'm not sure what's going on there. It goes both ways, if you're going to give Wayne such praise, then be prepared to receive some not so positive feedback in return. I dont see him giving 100% in every game so how am I supposed to take your opinion seriously without thinking you're just regurgitating recycled opinions?
For me, Rooney hasn't done enough. He should have pushed on when Kagawa and van Persie arrived but he hasn't. That's why I think he was shifted around more towards the end of the season. You've got to produce. If he doesn't like being subbed off, then he needs to be doing more. If he doesn't see that, then we have a problem. You just don't get in the lineup by default. Ye feckin earn it. Should he stay? I think so. No other club really wants him and if he gets his act together then he'll re-establish himself as one of our main men again. Right now, some are doubting his (and I stress) current status within the team.
Now let me address something else. I doubt many will agree with me but I am honestly fed up with all this whinging going on if Rooney does leave. We will move on with or without him. With SAF gone, some questions arise in terms of how Moyes would move the team forward if Rooney does leave but unlike past years, we have a very deep squad. If he goes to Chelsea so what? He would no longer be our player while they'd be getting a quality player, but I'm not going to be losing any sleep over it. The best scenario obviously is for him to go abroad. He's one player and one who is very good but I think we did just fine when Ronaldo left. At that time, we regarded him as the best player in the world and many thought we were a spent force but we still moved on. That's the expectation that Moyes will have when he comes in. Helping us move forward and continuing the work Sir Alex has built. I doubt we'll have as much success but Moyes seems like the type of manager who can handle losing a quality player. I mean ffs, they lost Arteta and have still done quite well. Are we worse off if Rooney leaves? Only time will tell. Football is a funny game. Losing Ruud and Becks was unfortunate but it seemed necessary to move forward. Ronaldo and Rooney took the mantle a few years later and we won the league back in style in 06/07. It's possible we could become better without him but such a scenario doesn't usually happen when a quality player leaves. Nonetheless, I'm confident we'll be fine if Rooney leaves.
If Rooney plays like he did this season we will cope with his absence fine and that is in all honesty. He has been far from irreplaceable this season.
Rooney always get this 'on his day' talk when describing how good he is the only quality player who gets as much leeway he has always been inconsistent how often is his day? I don't think he is a world class player and he hasn't been one since 09/10 he would be in that level below the very best.
The way you are talking is if he has been treated unfairly this is all a result of his play on the pitch. We have signed Van Persie who has come in and is better than Rooney in his best position. So then he has a problem he either rises to the challenge or he sinks. He was not too good in the no.10 role hence the manager wanting to play Kagawa there more so he is moved even deeper, he is not a midfielder so he is out of position and looks it.
I never understand when we are discussing player A how player B then validates what he is doing on the pitch. Rooney is more talented than Mata so what Mata does in a comparable season does not justify Rooney. Not to mention Mata was much more consistent with his all round play. Rooney is a player who regularly has a decent match but scores. Just listing his goals and assists gives little insight into what he has done on the pitch for 90 minutes. I can tell you Mario Gomez has scored 17 goals in 31 games this year with quite a few off the bench but despite this Mandzukiic starts ahead of him. There is a reason for that Rooney is not offering enough all round on the pitch.
We don't know what Moyes want to do Sir Alex said he requested a transfer when he didn't he can throw a tantrum but he needs to look at his self and his own application. The fact that he has been playing not to good and is throwing a strop is what annoys fans because a few years ago the club apparently didn't have enough ambition. Now he is not the main attraction and it looks like he is struggling to deal with it. He has been in decline for the last two seasons imo.
He needs to find his motivation out there and not be content just coasting through. He is better than 80% of the league like this but that is not good enough he should be in the best 5 players in this league every season. For me it depends on what kind of Rooney comes back from holiday if he does not seem committed he should be sold and his funds used to acquire more talent.
Very debatable.
So basically you are saying its either Rooney or Kagawa? If so, Rooney every time for me.
Why? He doesn't even like playing here.
Debatable in that he's clearly not.
I agree regarding the fact that he didn't play at the highest level this season, that's why I pointed out this season as being a dissapointing season, but even in such a dissapointing season he still managed to produce quite a lot, and that says something about a guy.
And again, like I said I don't expect him to have another season like this...whether he stays or goes next season's gonna be a better one for him. There's no reason to think he suddenly declined so much and won't ever get better, he's not Torress nor was he injured in a way that would prohibit him from being able to return to his best this season.
I understand you dislike him and would enjoy seeing him leave, and while I agree his attitude hasn't been the best I still don't see how or why we would benefit from it.
I stand by my decision on this matter, which is that Rooney's gonna have a better season next year and I'd much rather have him score and assist for United than another team. As fecking good as Kagawa can be and as much as I prefer his or RvP's attitude to Rooney's now, I doubt he'll ever be as good as Rooney can, and that's saying something as Kagawa is a fecking gem of a player.
Yes, he has been far from irreplacable this season, how about the numerous previous ones?
And how many times have we witnessed a player having a dip in form one year while coming back as good (or better) the next....it's not like this is some sort of miracle that only occured to Rooney at United.
No one can argue this was a great season for Rooney, but to say he's no longer world class because of it is a bit harsh.
Form is temporary, class is permanent.
Now, I agree with some of what you and the others are saying, ofcourse...I was very much pissed and dissapointed when I heard he asked for a transfer, and given some of his past he really seemed to have burned his bridges here, and he definitely deserved to be subbed off at times last season no doubt about that, what I wonder is...how come I can take notice of all of this (good and bad), while most of you can only come up with the "bad" parts and completely negate all the good he's done and the potential for him to continue having a very succesfull carreer here at Old Trafford.
I don't think he has been world class since 09/10 so for me it is not a gut reaction. He was prolific last year but his all round play has been declining steadily I noticed it his touch is sloppy too often, his passing is inconsistent, he plays too many Hollywood balls, and he is not consistent over the course of a season he has put together few great seasons from start to finish. These are all worrying signs for a player who has been at this level for 10 years and is still only 27. He may be burnt out he would not be the first it has happened too a player who has started young Raul, Kluivert etc.
I have been recently so you would not have seen all my posts regarding Rooney but I have never posted 'he needs to go' or 'get him out' I have always felt that if he is ready to re-apply himself and really get fit and work hard I have no problem with him staying when he is doing these things he is a quality player. But if he wants to continue the way he has been for the last 2 years at least then I think his time here is done. The team will miss the former but not the latter and with Rooney you really do not know what you are getting. He is no longer irreplaceable or the every best player at the club and he has reacted poorly to that he is the only reason he is dropped or being played out of position, his bottom level is the lowest of any player as talented as he is that has always been the case with him but we took the good with the bad now we are moving into a new era and cannot afford any baggage. It is unfortunate this is all happening at contract renewal time because a decision must be made, I would have liked to see what he would have produced next season. Now we either risk giving him a new contract or he goes.
see this is something that I fail to agree with, Rooney's "low point" being by far the lowest of all world class players (yes, I insist, he is worldclass, because like I said form is temporary, class is permanent).
I agree up to a point (that he's not the most consistent player out there, and that sometimes his bad games are quite noticable), but that's got more to do with him being so involved in our build-up play more than anything else.
The reason you don't see "such a bad game" from some other players is because some of them tend to shy away from the ball when they're not exactly feeling it or are generaly not entirely as influental to their team's all around play as Rooney is to ours, so you don't tend to notice them and their mistakes as much or as often, while Rooney is that much more on the radar because he wants the ball, he wants to make things happen and doesn't shy away from trying.
And yes, this has been a dissapointing season for him, but let's not get carried away here, he had a great season the previous campaign, and at times he showed how important he is to us this season as well, most notably during Van Persie's "dry spell" in which he was pretty much the one who won us points.
And I know this isn't the most popular opinion on here, especialy considering he isn't exactly the most beloved player on here, but I'd much rather give him an extension and set him straight, tell'em this is where he's supposed to play, tell'em to suck it up and prove to the fans why he's worth the money and the drama instead of risk losing him and seeing him tear other teams apart wearing a jersey that's not United's.
I completely agree on the fact that he can't continue like this though, definitely agree with you on that, his attitude needs to change a bit.
You make some good points, but you keep saying you are sure things will improve next season, what if they don't? He has already repeatedly proved he can and will be a little diva and throw his toys out of the pram.....the last thing DM needs in his first season here is an allegedly senior member of the squad acting up in the dressing room and in the press........its a big risk to take. If he stays and his form ISNT good, do we A: Bench him and have all this over again? B: Play him out of position and have this all over again or C: Continue to play him where he thinks he deserves and upset other members of the squad who cannt get a game despite being in form and less of a dick about things.
He only actually looks so shit because he has the ball a lot, some brilliant stuff there.
yeah sure, twist it however you want to in order to look smart.
I was trying to say that for example, if let's say someone like Aguero has a bad game, you won't notice it as much as you would with Rooney, because Rooney gets way more involved in our play all over the pitch than most other players, he'll see a considerable amount more of the ball than let's say Aguero, regardless of whether he has a good game or a bad game, it's the way the team is set up to play, and that's why even when Rooney hasn't been playing that well (like lately) the difference with him on or off the pitch is pretty visible in terms of how our team plays (and I'm not just talking about "good" or "bad" here)
(I'm just using Aguero as an example, I could've just as well used about anybody else because there are only a handful of people probably that are as influental to a team's set up as Rooney is to United's, even though RvP had a better season than him)
I'm not sure how exactly Rooney will perform, noone is, but I think it's a pretty safe bet to say he'll improve in comparison to his performances this season.
And the thing with Moyes is very much a double-edged sword. One might not want him to keep Rooney as it would seem like he's "caving in" to a player's demands, while others might see Rooney leaving as Moyes being rather weak in a "can't keep hold of your best players" kind of way.
Just like with pretty much every other player, you take a gamble and hope it pays out. The thing with Rooney though is that while he's proved multiple times he can act like a real bitch, he's also proven time and time again what a quality player he is, what a winner he is, and he played in the PL and for United for such a long time now that the majority of us should be aware of his capabilities by now.
I think Moyes wouldn't want Rooney to leave before he even gets started, would kind of start on the wrong foot in many fans' points of view (regardless of the fact that Rooney's transfer demand had nothing to do with Moyes as far as we know). If nothing else then keep him for next season, see what you can come up with and if it works Rooney stays if not, he goes. Besides, I don't think his price could be much lower than it is at the moment if you were looking at it from a "profitable" point of view.
I don't how some of you can still want him back this second time around.
He managed to hold the club hostage the first time for a bigger contract. Now if we appease him again for the second time we are only enabling him or his agent, whoever is pulling the strings... to continue to hold the club hostage in the future whenever something doesn't go his way or when he wants something.
What if he doesn't like Moyes's tactics, where Moyes plays him on the pitch? Transfer request?
What if he doesn't renew or sign an extension for his contact? United lose a player for nothing when they could have gotten plenty of funds from selling him right now?
No player is bigger than the club, keeping Rooney and using whatever "convincing" methods to get him to stay is not going to set a good example for current players and future players. The world will know that a footballer is able to pressure a club as big as United into getting him whatever he wants.
He managed to hold the club hostage the first time for a bigger contract. Now if we appease him again for the second time we are only enabling him or his agent, whoever is pulling the strings... to continue to hold the club hostage in the future whenever something doesn't go his way or when he wants something.
What if he doesn't like Moyes's tactics, where Moyes plays him on the pitch? Transfer request?
What if he doesn't renew or sign an extension for his contact? United lose a player for nothing when they could have gotten plenty of funds from selling him right now?
No player is bigger than the club, keeping Rooney and using whatever "convincing" methods to get him to stay is not going to set a good example for current players and future players. The world will know that a footballer is able to pressure a club as big as United into getting him whatever he wants.
I would feel a lot happier about rewarding him with an improved contract if he earned it, but he hasn't so far. Forget how much he is on, even his attitude for an EMPLOYEE of Manchester United isn't acceptable, or as far removed as you could be from 'deserving a pay rise', on the pitch he had an ok season, nothing mesmerising but nothing showing he is worth more than he is on... I would say there is more of an argument to question whether he actually warrants his wage in comparison to other players..
That could possibly be the best solution,(Ignoring my personal opinions
) As long as he doesn't get rewarded for this latest outburst with an improved contract Ill be relatively ok with whatever the new gaffer decides.@OGKush
I disagree with your point about bottom level. For e.g Mata had a poor game against us in the FA Cup the 1-0 win for Chelsea but he still manged to get an assist and contribute to his team winning same thing against Benfica you are not at your best but you still help the team. Rooney is consistently a hindrance when he is at his bottom level, when Rooney's game is off his struggles to do the basics, control the ball, pass it 5 yards etc. he looks awful and tends to break down attacks instead of sticking to what he is good at he tries to do too much and he over thinks things.
The second thing I would say is United fans don't trust Rooney and that is why people disagree with you this is him causing problems for a second time around transfer renegotiation time. He did it once which is forgivable a second time really isn't. Like I said i'm not sure he will rededicate himself to being at his best on the pitch because he can float through and still put up 'stats'. United fans don't trust him and he is the reason for that. That is why I wish he could play another season just to see what he does in the summer and how he comes back and applies himself. When he made his demands in 2010 he didn't start playing well until January which is ironic seeing as he called out his teammates for not being good enough, he hadn't even struggled he has won titles and competed the whole time he has been here he needs to go and ask Gerrard, Shearer, Henry, Totti etc. what it means to truly be the only world class player at a team knowing you have to be at your best game in game out just to compete.
I disagree with your point about bottom level. For e.g Mata had a poor game against us in the FA Cup the 1-0 win for Chelsea but he still manged to get an assist and contribute to his team winning same thing against Benfica you are not at your best but you still help the team. Rooney is consistently a hindrance when he is at his bottom level, when Rooney's game is off his struggles to do the basics, control the ball, pass it 5 yards etc. he looks awful and tends to break down attacks instead of sticking to what he is good at he tries to do too much and he over thinks things.
The second thing I would say is United fans don't trust Rooney and that is why people disagree with you this is him causing problems for a second time around transfer renegotiation time. He did it once which is forgivable a second time really isn't. Like I said i'm not sure he will rededicate himself to being at his best on the pitch because he can float through and still put up 'stats'. United fans don't trust him and he is the reason for that. That is why I wish he could play another season just to see what he does in the summer and how he comes back and applies himself. When he made his demands in 2010 he didn't start playing well until January which is ironic seeing as he called out his teammates for not being good enough, he hadn't even struggled he has won titles and competed the whole time he has been here he needs to go and ask Gerrard, Shearer, Henry, Totti etc. what it means to truly be the only world class player at a team knowing you have to be at your best game in game out just to compete.
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