I'd have to agree actually. The first time around we were praying that Rooney would stay but this time it seems as if many of us are hoping for the opposite outcome.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
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I'd have to agree actually. The first time around we were praying that Rooney would stay but this time it seems as if many of us are hoping for the opposite outcome.
It'll be on a lower rate than last time.
His importance to the team has gone down so he can't expect the same deal as before.
50k a week, take it or leave (yes please) it.
Well surely if either do the business in either their time when they do start or in training than they will play over him if they're doing better, likewise if RVP isn't performing.
That's hopefully the main outcome from this if Rooney does stay and a big part of it was him not being happy being subbed off/moved around. Hopefully he and everyone else will realize that you have to perform to get your place in the team, and that if you want to play a certain role you have to fight for it.
Who knows, maybe we could change the club crest to a gold pram with toys flying everywhere while we're at it?
I would rather Wayne lose out on this one
And when that happens we'll have Rooney's people briefing Keys and his mates in the press about how hard done-by he is, wonderful.
Which of course assumes that Hernandez won't consider his options in the face of such appeasement of Rooney.
If we give him another huge contract we'll look like massive, massive idiots.
Oh I agree completely, but what that part you quoted in bold was meant as an introduction to my development on how the Madrid tie probably had an effect on his season, that there was a before and after, if you will.
You're absolutely right, it does go both ways (though you'll agree the views are polarized rather in way than the other, which may be natural after all). I'm not disputing that at all, I think those coming out with defences of the player saying "SAF probably made it public to force him out, he probably doesn't want to leave, etc." are just as bad (well, "bad", you know what I mean).
Oh of course, it's not my place to come in here and tell you all to shut up, nor should the mods close the thread with an announcement along the lines of "as long as we don't have clear statements of both parties clarifying the whole situation, all be quiet and go and read Liam's latest misadventures in the general".
I agree on your last sentence, not so much on what leads up to it. Or rather that if we don't care about having more substantial info, we should be quite clear about what we're doing: debating on hypotheses and perceptions. Which is fine and is what the forum is about mostly, after all, and from your post you seem very aware of that, but I feel a lot of people are making final judgments on the player, his motivations, and his future here. When the initial premise could be completely wrong! That's my only qualm. By all means, let's exchange point of views, but let's not forget that we could be very wrong.
Of course, though you'll agree that this season has been a transition period for him from that perspective. Up until Ronaldo's departure, he was number 2 at the club; then, with the Portuguese's transfer, he became top dog, a role he thrived in as a player, I feel; this year was awkward, with a first half to the season where Sir Alex seemed to try to juggle around with him and RvP (helped by Rooney's prolonged absence with the injuries, and not having the Kagawa dilemma, all three rarely being fit at the same time). Then, the Madrid tie seemed to establish clearly the hierarchy in SAF's mind, especially the first tie with Rooney's role.
My argument is that he could have legitimately perceived this as a bit of a throwback for him, and professionnally he could have seen it as a step backwards. However, he's reaching his best years as a professionnal football player, and he might not believe that the role he seems to have now at Utd is the one he deserves or will excel in. If I was in his position, I wouldn't give a feck if I was playing in the 10 spot or as left-back, as I'd be playing for Utd. But I'm a supporter, and my view on it really doesn't matter. In my job, if I went through the same kind of situation as him, I'd definitely ask myself some serious questions, and I'd also approach my boss to try to assess the situation (which is, from what we know, what happened). Now I don't especially want to go into all the details (transfer request, was it official, was it just a brief conversation where the option was discussed), I'm not going to take Wayne's representatives' word as gospel, neither am I going to believe blindly in what SAF has said. I don't necessarily agree with your
because I do believe that there are many elements which we don't know about, be it timing, meetings, real intentions and motivations of each party, which are important.
For sure, I definitely agree there and that's why I believe that the Madrid tie is a very, very important element of the whole saga.
All possible, but again I don't want to be drawn into speculation (though, you'd be right to knock me back by pointing out that my analysis of the Madrid tie being a turning point in the season is also pure speculation!
). Maybe he's fed up of United, maybe he was unhappy with SAF, maybe he just was a bit lost from a personal point of view, maybe he'll be able to re-focus in the future... Who knows. Or, as Cristiano would put it, only God knows!
Agreed. It would make us look like doormats. Just get rid. We don't even need a direct replacement.
Well I was assuming Rooney would actually want to stay having had his bluff called etc, not us forcing him to stay.
As for Hernandez again it depends on the situation. What appeasement are we giving Rooney. I'm not advocating him getting a better contract or anything, if anything ideally he realises his mistake and gets a reduced contract, very unlikely to happen but I'd expect at the least that he gets no increase.
In that situation I don't see the problem with Hernandez. If they all understand they have to fight for a place then that's great. If Hernandaz wants more game time then that's a shame but I don't see what Rooney has to do with that if he's earning his place in the team. If we viewed Hernandez's worth as greater than Rooney's he'd play more and he would play more going forward. I still think if Rooney goes he'd be behind Kagawa to partner RVP.
Agreed and for this reason I can't see it happening. Rooney will have to back down this time, the club can't be seen to do so again. No player is bigger than the club etc etc.
Here's the actual opta version of the stats for those debating it on the previous page:
Here's the actual opts version of the stats for those debating it on the previous page:
Does that mean Bale isn't in the top ten?
Here's the actual opts version of the stats for those debating it on the previous page:
I'm surprised that Mata is so far behind the likes of Rooney, about 23 minutes behind him in terms of being involved in a goal. I also think that perfectly sums up how effective Chicha is and why he deserves more playing time.
Yes
No, Bale is so far ahead that it was unfair to include him. He's also statistically the best goalkeeper in the Premier League.
Don't know if this has been posted before but SSN says Gill is confident that Wayne will still be here next season. At United, not on the Caf.
Le Fondre 114.8mins was 11th and Bale 117mins was 12th for those asking.
Cool, was just wondering if it was just a collection of ten players who'd done well, I don't know what sort of parameters you can put in when generating these. Can't say I'm surprised by Bale not being in the top ten, he's had a great season but has also been slightly overrated, in terms of actual output Mata is only just behind and Bale arguable has had more attacking license than him for most the season.
As for Rooney, it's not surprising either, I've said before Rooney has been quietly efficient, not really getting any headlines this season but still contributing. He can play better no doubt but he hasn't been as poor as suggested. That said we shouldn't back down if it is a ploy for money, he hasn't pushed on as much as we'd have hoped when he got his big contract, he hasn't earned the right to get more from his performances.
Which goes back to my point. Unless told otherwise, people will go with their presumptions based on very little. At the end of the day, I see it as a mental exercise. If, and it's a big if, rooney indeed told SAF in that meeting he wanted to leave, then what those fans who say let him go can feel somewhat vindicated. If not, then it's simply back to square one.
Interesting perspective here. I say interesting because there's no acknowledgment regarding Rooney realising he has not been good enough himself. Or that Wayne talks about enjoying playing in midfield even though he's a forward player. Sometimes I wonder, does he know his best position? You make some good points. I just wanted to raise the fact that as much as this situation has caused Rooney to ask some of questions of SAF, he als needs to ask some questions of himself.
All possible, but again I don't want to be drawn into speculation (though, you'd be right to knock me back by pointing out that my analysis of the Madrid tie being a turning point in the season is also pure speculation!
Or, as Cristiano would put it, only God knows!
We'll soon find out.
I agree Bale has been overrated. I think it's because of the type of goals he scores and that he's rescued Tottenham several times. People (me included) harp on about RvPs dry spell when I think I read that bale had 3 goals and 0 assists until December. RvP was on something like 18 goals and a good few assists. People forget the slow start Bale had.
Ive said a few times that at least when Rooney isn't at his best he's still productive, he doesn't disappear altogether which is important, and fifth in the league in terms of goals/assists per min is really good for someone who hasn't had the best of seasons. Nowhere near as bad as people make out. And it's only on here people are suggesting he's angling for more money. I seriously doubt it's money oriented. We have no reason to think that.
Bale also gets overrated because you hear people talk about him as if he was doing this from the wing, which he isn't, he plays as far up the pitch as Rooney does at the moment.
Yeah and tbh I wonder how far off his goal tally he was from previous seasons in open play. He lost penalty duties this season and I'm sure that's contributed upwards of 5 goals in the league each season.
Wonderful news for the club.
If your manager has sated publicly that you have asked to leave the club yet you have no intention to do so, would you not flatly deny the claim and pretty sharpish at that?
The words people do not speak can be as telling as the ones they do choose to express themselves with.
Admittedly there hasn't been a great deal of movement in recent days, however thee are reasonable grounds for the discussions that have taken place here.
This likely verbal transfer request aside, we'd still probably have had an unsavoury situation regarding his contract renewal.
The words people do not speak can be as telling as the ones they do choose to express themselves with.
Admittedly there hasn't been a great deal of movement in recent days, however thee are reasonable grounds for the discussions that have taken place here.
This likely verbal transfer request aside, we'd still probably have had an unsavoury situation regarding his contract renewal.
What?
(If true) that Gill thinks Rooney will still be here next season.
He'd have to learn how to read and write to come on here wouldn't he?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22660493
Gill is "confident" we're keeping Wazza. Will this hold firm I wonder?
Gill is "confident" we're keeping Wazza. Will this hold firm I wonder?
It's probably a statement to hint to PSG that the ball is still in our court and that if they want Rooney, they'll need to get that huge briefcase of cash ready. I don't think he'll be at United next season.
If we do sell, we need to get at least 40 mil. I mean, if Fellaini is 24 mil, Rooney is at least 48! We can't be like Arsenal, selling Cesc for cheap and then overpaying to bring in lesser players at about the same cost!
I guess some people would be more tolerant if he made his transfer requests in public and spent all summer talking to the media, flirting with other clubs and leading everyone on a merry dance. Then he'd have his name sung even after leaving the club. He made the grave mistake of asking Fergie in private that maybe he wants to leave.
Hope he stays.
You're right, but then again the Rooney camp hasn't been communicating that much and they might be in a position where they feel that speaking too much or Rooney coming out and admitting his season wasn't top notch would fragilise their position - in one way or another.
I've said so before, I'd love him to stay if he could be revitalized and saw the next season as a new challenge. Therefore I bloody well hope that he realizes his season hasn't been as good as it could, and I'd love to see a Rooney with his experience he has as a senior player but with the fire and passion he had not so long ago. And to be honest, this isn't even for the club or the team (or not only), it's just that he's one of the players I get the most pleasure out of watching, and despite having a statistically decent season, and nowhere near as bad as some are making out, I want to see him play with the same hunger as he used to. And before I get a bollocking, this isn't a "player over club" or "he's bigger than the team" situation, it's just that I admire him as a player, did so even before he came to Utd, and just hope he can enjoy his football. Which was the big missing point this season.
I think this is the probably with problem with Rooney though. He has been here 8 years, given the best years of his career with us. With his physique he probably has one more challenge. Some players just run out of hunger after a period of being with the same club for a long time. I just feel he himself feels he needs a total change to re-invigorate himself..or at least have a chance to re-invigorate. It might not work, but his body language last season indicated that his passion was not as strong as it has been, and this could just be a mental fatigue with being in the same place....
Tough one for me this. On his day, he is world class. No-one can question that. We aren't a team full of match winners to be fair, and in Wayne Rooney, we have all round, one of the best in the league for me. Look at his strengths. Strong, aggressive, ability, passion, technique; he has everything in his game to be successful at United, and he has been. There have been games where he has single handily dragged us back into it, and you can't teach that. That's pure quality, and you need players like Rooney in your side if you are seriously considering winning Championships and European Cups.
Then you can look at the other side if the argument. I've lost count of the number of times he has been rumoured leaving the club, and although I appreciate figures such as Rooney are going to be targeted in that respect, he certainly hasn't helped himself at times. Like people have said, he is very much a confidence player, and his personality reflects his performances on the pitch. You don't get to play at the top level without an 'ego', and his pride will have been stung at times this season. Being left out of games like Madrid will have made a huge impact on him personally, and although no player is bigger than the club, looking at his personality, you can see why he is considering a future away from United. If that is indeed the case.
Personally, I think it will be a case of the manager and a couple of senior players putting there arm round him, and giving him that extra sense of importance. The big question is: are United fed up of being messed about, and do they feel Rooney can justify another contract. That's the big question, and I suppose the answer will become clear soon enough.
Then you can look at the other side if the argument. I've lost count of the number of times he has been rumoured leaving the club, and although I appreciate figures such as Rooney are going to be targeted in that respect, he certainly hasn't helped himself at times. Like people have said, he is very much a confidence player, and his personality reflects his performances on the pitch. You don't get to play at the top level without an 'ego', and his pride will have been stung at times this season. Being left out of games like Madrid will have made a huge impact on him personally, and although no player is bigger than the club, looking at his personality, you can see why he is considering a future away from United. If that is indeed the case.
Personally, I think it will be a case of the manager and a couple of senior players putting there arm round him, and giving him that extra sense of importance. The big question is: are United fed up of being messed about, and do they feel Rooney can justify another contract. That's the big question, and I suppose the answer will become clear soon enough.
He will cause internal issues at the club the following season if he stays. Im willing to bet a lot on it.
Get rid.
Get rid.
He isn't going anywhere!
Can we sell Wayne and keep Coleen? I like her.
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