Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

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To take it a step further - SAF has probably known that Moyes would step in when he retired, and has probably known for quite some time that this would spell problems with Rooney. SAF may well have realised from 5 years ago that O
Rooney would ultimately leave, and has been setting the balls in motion for that eventuality.
 
Looking at the players listed, Rooney's spent more time in midfield than any of them, bar Mata.

Yeah exactly. Only him and Mata (Bale on occasion) play the same position really, and even then he spent 3-4 games in a central midfield two. He's been more effective than both even with Ciders recalculation and that's with the pair of the (Mata and Bale) on a great season and Rooney on a widely considered poor one. That's says it all. Even when he's not on the top form we all know he can reach he's still as productive as Bale and Mata (slightly more actually). I'm not arguing that we was brilliant this season but when he is on form he's better than them if this is what he can do when not on form. Why people want to lose him is beyond me.
 
Yeah exactly. Only him and Mata (Bale on occasion) play the same position really, and even then he spent 3-4 games in a central midfield two. He's been more effective than both even with Ciders recalculation and that's with the pair of the (Mata and Bale) on a great season and Rooney on a widely considered poor one. That's says it all. Even when he's not on the top form we all know he can reach he's still as productive as Bale and Mata (slightly more actually). I'm not arguing that we was brilliant this season but when he is on form he's better than them if this is what he can do when not on form. Why people want to lose him is beyond me.

Its a pride issue. If your girlfriend kept sleeping with other men behind your back, would you gladly accept her back?.

Whether you love her or not sometimes its best to cut all ties, as you know once things are damaged they rarely get better.

People forgave him once, but the second time its just 1 step too far IMO.
 
PSG is a good option for rooney its quite close to home for him and keeps him out of the premier league the last thing I want to see is him lifting the premier league trophy with another club.
Its definitely a case of use him or lose him fergie never trusted him to start in the big games don't blame him for wanting away.
I personally thank him for some great years and fantastic memories and wish him well as long as it is out of this country
 
PSG is a good option for rooney its quite close to home for him and keeps him out of the premier league the last thing I want to see is him lifting the premier league trophy with another club.
Its definitely a case of use him or lose him fergie never trusted him to start in the big games don't blame him for wanting away.
I personally thank him for some great years and fantastic memories and wish him well as long as it is out of this country

feck me! Exaggerating much? He dropped him for ONE big game in 9 years because he showed in the first leg his defensive skills weren't up to scratch when compared to Welbeck for a particular role. And from this you get SAF never played him in the big games :lol::lol::lol:
 
Didn't SAF start Wayne against Bayern one-time, when he only had one leg*?


*I mean, when he was 'only 40% fit' or something.
 
feck me! Exaggerating much? He dropped him for ONE big game in 9 years because he showed in the first leg his defensive skills weren't up to scratch when compared to Welbeck for a particular role. And from this you get SAF never played him in the big games :lol::lol::lol:

Not just that one game he got benched a lot more since van persie arrived it was obvious he was going to be benched when we played with a lone striker he didn't like being second choice
 
When judging Wayne Rooney this season you have to look at more than just reading his stats of a page. His all-round play has gone down this season he was similar last season but the thing with him is he will always provide end-product. There are many reasons being blamed for his loss of form but it is mainly his fitness issues. For me the fact he is still able to affect the outcome of games as much is just a testament to how talented he actually is. But when watching Wayne Rooney I don't think I am watching a player who is particularly fit and I feel that is the most important thing in terms of how he plays but the things about his game which you have to note and I am sure have been noted by others: He is sloppy in possession, he has has lost the ability to beat players consistently, inconsistent touch and poor short passing. All this is coupled with him being inconsistent in terms of end-product. He is the only player of quality who it has to be said 'when on form' in the description of how good he is. That is because he is consistently not good enough. I am undecided on if I want him to stay or go I don't think we are going to get the truth about what has happened here for a few years sooner if he leaves but if he stays we need somebody who is more dedicated to taking care of himself and playing his best football. Only then can we get the best out of him but he is almost 28 so imo the Wayne Rooney we have is the one we are stuck with a player who has had a great career but it could have been even greater and I think that is something fans are disappointed about. He should have been up there with Ronaldo and Messi.

There are questions if he does stay though where does he play? What happens to Kagawa? There are questions even if he goes. How do we replace his contribution? So this will all need to be handled the most important thing is the club and players who are not adding to the club have no need to be here. He is a senior player and the younger players must surely look up to him so for this to be happening is not good and sets a poor example. It is something I would hope is sorted out soon and doesn't drag on all summer.

He held us by the balls in 2010 he was the best player at the club and we were building our next great team but now if he has done the same the truth is we don't need him now as much as we did then and will cope fine with his exit as long as quality players are bought in the positions where we didn't get enough from this past season.
 
Not just that one game he got benched a lot more since van persie arrived it was obvious he was going to be benched when we played with a lone striker he didn't like being second choice

Rooney was dropped/rested twelve times over the course of the season.
Fulham H League
Spurs H League (just back from injury)
Norwich A League
Spurs A League (just back from injury)
QPR A League
Chelsea A League (after transfer request)
Swansea A League (after transfer request)
West Brom H League (after transfer request)
Galatasaray A CL
Madrid H CL
Chelsea A League Cup
Reading H FA Cup

RvP was dropped/rested fourteen times over the course of the season.
Everton A League
Wigan H League
West Brom H League
Braga A CL
Galatasaray A CL
Cluj H CL
Newcastle H League Cup
Chelsea A League Cup
West Ham A FA Cup
West Ham H FA Cup
Fulham H FA Cup
Reading H FA Cup
Chelsea H FA Cup
Chelsea A FA Cup
 
so you couldn't see from the body language and his behaviour he was out of favour most people in the seats around me in the Stretford end felt it

RvP was playing much better; there's no doubt about that.

You said that he was never trusted to start the big games. It doesn't look to me like he missed any big games other than the Madrid match.
 
It's amazing to think RvP didn't start either of the FA cup games against Chelsea.
 
RVP is the better player of the two in the no.9 role that is without doubt. Wayne's failure to do enough in the number 10 role and out wide has been what has led to him playing deeper. The decision to bench him for the Madrid game is one few can say was unfair imo after his performance in the first leg which needed him to do everything he doesn't do well.
 
They sandwiched the Madrid game though, didn't they?

Not exactly. The replay was a couple of days after the Sunderland away game, which RvP started. In hindsight, you could say SAF was a bit too safe with his selection in that game. I guess he really wanted to make sure he went out with the league. Anyways, off topic.
 
Not just that one game he got benched a lot more since van persie arrived it was obvious he was going to be benched when we played with a lone striker he didn't like being second choice

But in those other games he either wasn't fit or was out of form, there really is only the one example of SAF dropping Rooney for a genuinely BIG game.
 
so you couldn't see from the body language and his behaviour he was out of favour most people in the seats around me in the Stretford end felt it

Yeah, he's certainly had a right good mope in the latter stages of the season. He's looked like he's got a case of the boohoos, but that doesn't really relate to your point of him never being trusted by Fergie, which is total waffle.

He's our top earner and before RvP arrived he was our main man. It's a pretty shitty attitude to have if he's immediately wanting out because we have a striker who is better than him, an attacking midfielder who looks a little bit more technically proficient than he is, and he's now having to put in a bit of graft for his position.

He's certainly good enough to be a starter behind RvP, but he's got to earn it. Welbeck is putting in phenomenal legwork, Hernandez is scoring with every sniff he gets, Kagawa is improving all the time and RvP is untouchable. He's spitting his dummy out because he's now being challenged by good players who are more eager to play for the shirt than he is. On his day, he's probably a shade or two behind RvP, but better than the rest of our attackers. He's not going to just walk into the team though, especially when he's playing poorly and the others are putting in good performances.

He questions United's ambitions in 2011, then he goes and shows zero ambition in himself this season. Shape up or ship out.
 
It's entirely laughable that he can one minute question our ambition in the transfer market and then the next cry off because we've bought players who're challenging him for his position.

I've been a long time supporter of Wayne Rooney but he's really milking the cow at both ends with this latest bollocks.
 
Yeah, he's certainly had a right good mope in the latter stages of the season. He's looked like he's got a case of the boohoos, but that doesn't really relate to your point of him never being trusted by Fergie, which is total waffle.

He's our top earner and before RvP arrived he was our main man. It's a pretty shitty attitude to have if he's immediately wanting out because we have a striker who is better than him, an attacking midfielder who looks a little bit more technically proficient than he is, and he's now having to put in a bit of graft for his position.

He's certainly good enough to be a starter behind RvP, but he's got to earn it. Welbeck is putting in phenomenal legwork, Hernandez is scoring with every sniff he gets, Kagawa is improving all the time and RvP is untouchable. He's spitting his dummy out because he's now being challenged by good players who are more eager to play for the shirt than he is. On his day, he's probably a shade or two behind RvP, but better than the rest of our attackers. He's not going to just walk into the team though, especially when he's playing poorly and the others are putting in good performances.

He questions United's ambitions in 2011, then he goes and shows zero ambition in himself this season. Shape up or ship out.
Good points I concede :):)
 
It's entirely laughable that he can one minute question our ambition in the transfer market and then the next cry off because we've bought players who're challenging him for his position.

I've been a long time supporter of Wayne Rooney but he's really milking the cow at both ends with this latest bollocks.

Yep, it really does piss all over his last episode with us. Even though it surely wasn't really about ambition back then either, but if it was, it just makes him out to be all the more stupid right now.
 
It's just excuses to earn more money, all of it. He doesn't give a feck if it makes sense or not, he's just like most modern footballers, he's in it for the dough.

He'll stay at United if it's economically well-rewarded compared to other offers, as that'll be more comfortable for him.

I've really lost what respect I had for the sulking dimwit now though.

Klay. FFS.
 
Yep, it really does piss all over his last episode with us. Even though it surely wasn't really about ambition back then either, but if it was, it just makes him out to be all the more stupid right now.

And he can't backtrack now I feel. This would make him looks so incredibly stupid. Even more than he looks now. Ask twice for a transfer, and twice coming back apologising calling it the biggest mistakes of his life? Nah he can't do that again can he?
I feel there's no way back for him now.
 
The 'average' section as you've charted it here is entirely meaningless. It looks like you've just plotted the midway point between the goals and assists ratios; the data produced tells very little about a player's overall productivity in relation to minutes played.

For example, a player who over the course of the season played 3,000 minutes, scored 150 goals but only registered a single assist would have a ridiculous 'average' of 1,490 minutes on your chart. He'd easily have been the most productive player in the league and yet your average column would make him look rather poor in comparison to the others.

For a meaningful depiction you need to add the goals and assists together before dividing the minutes by this total; it's not an average as such, but only because averages in terms of the ratios you're trying to describe don't really work:

Javier Hernandez: 64mins
Robin van Persie: 76mins
Romelu Lukaku: 84mins
Luis Suarez: 87mins
Wayne Rooney: 92mins
Gareth Bale: 97mins
Juan Mata: 97mins
Adam le Fondre: 108mins
Michu: 143mins

It puts Rooney on average at either a goal or an assist in more or less in every league game, which isn't bad at all; though the statistic certainly doesn't make him out as being the most productive attacker in the Premier League as does your entirely irrelevant 'average' column above.

Oh I agree the averages are a bit silly, I just did it because I had already punched in all the data. Your approach looks pretty good.
I just thought a lot was being made of Rooney's supposed bad season.
 
It's entirely laughable that he can one minute question our ambition in the transfer market and then the next cry off because we've bought players who're challenging him for his position.

I've been a long time supporter of Wayne Rooney but he's really milking the cow at both ends with this latest bollocks.

Although that's based on an asumption of what you think was said between him and SAF, even though it does seem likely and the most possible explanation. The truth is we have no fecking clue what is going on and what happened and what his (and the club's) motivations are, we've just been speculating for the last 50 pages or whatever. And this speculation, based on nothing, is affecting the general perception of the player. It's all very odd.
 
And he can't backtrack now I feel. This would make him looks so incredibly stupid. Even more than he looks now. Ask twice for a transfer, and twice coming back apologising calling it the biggest mistakes of his life? Nah he can't do that again can he?
I feel there's no way back for him now.

It was only about 8 months ago he came out and said he'd made the biggest mistake in his life and wanted to play here for another 10 years. I can't see him staying on after this either.
 
Yep, it really does piss all over his last episode with us. Even though it surely wasn't really about ambition back then either, but if it was, it just makes him out to be all the more stupid right now.

I never believed it was about that. We are a club who's ambition you ca't question we are always in it to win and are there and thereabouts. He didn't even let the season pan out and see how the team performed before complaining he basically looked around and said 'from what I see you lot aren't good enough if we don't buy more players i'm off' he wanted more money and that was the only way he could get it. Nowhere else in the last 10 years he would he have won more apart from Barca he has us by the balls and he used it to get a fat new contact.

If he goes we will do fine because he just not that important to us and he hasn't been at the peak of his powers for at least 18 months.
 
It's entirely laughable that he can one minute question our ambition in the transfer market and then the next cry off because we've bought players who're challenging him for his position.

I've been a long time supporter of Wayne Rooney but he's really milking the cow at both ends with this latest bollocks.

Blimey Cider, I cannt remember the last time we agreed on anything.......I feel all emotional, this could be the start of something beautiful :lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
Oh I agree the averages are a bit silly, I just did it because I had already punched in all the data. Your approach looks pretty good.
I just thought a lot was being made of Rooney's supposed bad season.

It wasn't great in terms of his performances. He would fade very badly in some games. Other games he was just having a stinker. For someone of Wayne Rooney's standards, performance-wise, it's been below-average to decent season for him. He can be happy with his stats though and a few moments of class. Not much else though. Some fans point to him being played out of position despite Rooney wanting to be involved with linking our midfield and attack. From what I have noticed, it was only after the first leg in Madrid that we saw Rooney being rotated in different positions. Other than that, he mostly played behind the striker.

He only has himself to blame for not hitting his usual heights. He got injured twice so of course that didn't help. Yet, as Sir Alex mentioned before, Wayne complained about being taken off, he wouldn't be taken off if he was in top form. If anyone is trying to convince you Wayne's been great this season, they're being delusional in my opinion. The lad can do a lot better. He knows that. His teammates know that. Fergie knows that. The buck stops with the manager. I am more than ready for this stupid saga to be over.
 
It wasn't great in terms of his performances. He would fade very badly in some games. Other games he was just having a stinker. For someone of Wayne Rooney's standards, performance-wise, it's been below-average to decent season for him. He can be happy with his stats though and a few moments of class. Not much else though. Some fans point to him being played out of position despite Rooney wanting to be involved with linking our midfield and attack. From what I have noticed, it was only after the first leg in Madrid that we saw Rooney being rotated in different positions. Other than that, he mostly played behind the striker.

He only has himself to blame for not hitting his usual heights. He got injured twice so of course that didn't help. Yet, as Sir Alex mentioned before, Wayne complained about being taken off, he wouldn't be taken off if he was in top form. If anyone is trying to convince you Wayne's been great this season, they're being delusional in my opinion. The lad can do a lot better. He knows that. His teammates know that. Fergie knows that. The buck stops with the manager. I am more than ready for this stupid saga to be over.

That's true, but despite the odd bad game (Everton, Swansea), and taking into account the injuries, I think Wayne actually had a more than decent first half of the season. He was instrumental in that victory over City, and I remember quite a few very good performances by him. He wasn't "firing on all cylinders" if you will, but if he'd kept up such form throughout the whole season, I doubt we would be discussing much to be fair.

And I think the Madrid first leg game has more importance than what we might believe. It was a huge game and one where Wayne was used as a utility player. I think psychologically it affected him (as did the fact that he was dropped for the return game), and the end of his season was pretty meh (though the whole team seemed to be affected by the CL exit, really). I think what G. Neville was saying during our last home game, that he needs to sort his head out, is very true. Maybe he needs to understand his role and position within the club better, maybe Moyes won't have the same approach as SAF... A lot of elements need to be weighed, by both parties, before a final decision is made.

A lot of us see the whole situation as fans, and with limited info on top of that. We see a player who questioned the club's ambition come back, just a couple of seasons later, and express his unhappiness within the club. As fans, we're passionate and this is unacceptable. The truth is, except for a handful of players, playing for Utd is a job and when you work for a company, I believe it's important to know where you stand. What the expectations are from your management, what kind of importance you have for your company, whether you feel you're utilized as best as you should be... These are things that actually happen in real life, in companies, every day. If you're not satisfied of your standing within the company, if you don't feel it can meet your expectations or that you're undervalued, you're welcome to look elsewhere.

But again, this is my view and it's a lot of speculation. As a whole, I think the situation isn't as black and white as some are trying to paint it, and I don't believe we have enough info to have a real opinion on the subject. Unfortunately, a lot of us are jumping on his back and have already made our mind up, even though we might be basing our opinion on incorrect information.
 
That's true, but despite the odd bad game (Everton, Swansea), and taking into account the injuries, I think Wayne actually had a more than decent first half of the season. He was instrumental in that victory over City, and I remember quite a few very good performances by him. He wasn't "firing on all cylinders" if you will, but if he'd kept up such form throughout the whole season, I doubt we would be discussing much to be fair.

And I think the Madrid first leg game has more importance than what we might believe. It was a huge game and one where Wayne was used as a utility player. I think psychologically it affected him (as did the fact that he was dropped for the return game), and the end of his season was pretty meh (though the whole team seemed to be affected by the CL exit, really). I think what G. Neville was saying during our last home game, that he needs to sort his head out, is very true. Maybe he needs to understand his role and position within the club better, maybe Moyes won't have the same approach as SAF... A lot of elements need to be weighed, by both parties, before a final decision is made.

A lot of us see the whole situation as fans, and with limited info on top of that. We see a player who questioned the club's ambition come back, just a couple of seasons later, and express his unhappiness within the club. As fans, we're passionate and this is unacceptable. The truth is, except for a handful of players, playing for Utd is a job and when you work for a company, I believe it's important to know where you stand. What the expectations are from your management, what kind of importance you have for your company, whether you feel you're utilized as best as you should be... These are things that actually happen in real life, in companies, every day. If you're not satisfied of your standing within the company, if you don't feel it can meet your expectations or that you're undervalued, you're welcome to look elsewhere.

But again, this is my view and it's a lot of speculation. As a whole, I think the situation isn't as black and white as some are trying to paint it, and I don't believe we have enough info to have a real opinion on the subject. Unfortunately, a lot of us are jumping on his back and have already made our mind up, even though we might be basing our opinion on incorrect information.

Shiii-, logic on a forum you may very well be banned for that. Great post mate.
 
That's true, but despite the odd bad game (Everton, Swansea), and taking into account the injuries, I think Wayne actually had a more than decent first half of the season. He was instrumental in that victory over City, and I remember quite a few very good performances by him. He wasn't "firing on all cylinders" if you will, but if he'd kept up such form throughout the whole season, I doubt we would be discussing much to be fair.

And I think the Madrid first leg game has more importance than what we might believe. It was a huge game and one where Wayne was used as a utility player. I think psychologically it affected him (as did the fact that he was dropped for the return game), and the end of his season was pretty meh (though the whole team seemed to be affected by the CL exit, really). I think what G. Neville was saying during our last home game, that he needs to sort his head out, is very true. Maybe he needs to understand his role and position within the club better, maybe Moyes won't have the same approach as SAF... A lot of elements need to be weighed, by both parties, before a final decision is made.

A lot of us see the whole situation as fans, and with limited info on top of that. We see a player who questioned the club's ambition come back, just a couple of seasons later, and express his unhappiness within the club. As fans, we're passionate and this is unacceptable. The truth is, except for a handful of players, playing for Utd is a job and when you work for a company, I believe it's important to know where you stand. What the expectations are from your management, what kind of importance you have for your company, whether you feel you're utilized as best as you should be... These are things that actually happen in real life, in companies, every day. If you're not satisfied of your standing within the company, if you don't feel it can meet your expectations or that you're undervalued, you're welcome to look elsewhere.

But again, this is my view and it's a lot of speculation. As a whole, I think the situation isn't as black and white as some are trying to paint it, and I don't believe we have enough info to have a real opinion on the subject. Unfortunately, a lot of us are jumping on his back and have already made our mind up, even though we might be basing our opinion on incorrect information.

Aye, but he tailed off badly in the second half of the season for me. He had some good moments mind (Norwich, Villa, Fulham) but he had some absolute stinkers in there too.

It goes both ways. Others are giving Wayne the benefit of the doubt not based on much either. As you say, how much do we really know? You know as well as I do fans won't care for that. We already know we're not privy to much information. Nonetheless, it does not mean we will not give an opinion on a matter we think is important. It does not really matter if there's substantial information. I don't think there's anything new being generated in this situation either. More so, people are just reiterating their feelings on Wayne as well as commenting on this situation between him and SAF. Let's be honest, any situation between these two let alone the club will be talked about.

In terms of his role, I think Wayne has been here long enough to have a good idea of where he stands. Sir Alex's comments suggest Wayne is having a bit of trouble adjusting to not being the main man. He's used to staying on the field even if he's not at his best. He's not used to coming off the bench or having to play in midfield. Two scenarios which we have seen recently. I don't think there are as many factors as you perceive. From what I've seen, after the Madrid game Rooney just hasn't appeared to be all there. He still produces moments of quality but I am one of those who thinks life at United for him has gone a bit stale. This issue arose before Moyes came in and the only thing we don't know is what Moyes has in store for Rooney. Rooney hasn't come out and said he wants to stay. Presumably, his camp is choosing to reiterate Wayne didn't hand in an official transfer request. Sir Alex admitting publicly that Wayne asked to leave is damning enough for the lad.

I think from a big picture type of view, there's enough there to have some say on the matter. I doubt we'll know all the details but it's quite clear both sides are using the papers as a mouthpiece. There is a lot of speculation but with Sir Alex coming out and acknowledging Wayne wants to leave by saying, "he needs to go and have a think about it", that's just about enough for me to get a sense of what's going on.

Good post though even if we do not necessarily agree.
 
Mandy Henry ‏@MandyHenryMedia 2m
#mufc chief executive David Gill has told @BBCSport he's confident Wayne Rooney will still be a Utd player next season. Gill said it's for "David Moyes & the new team to handle" & that "every bit of work" was being done to speak to the player & his reps.

...
 
Well thank god, I'd be disappointed if we didn't do everything we could to keep a player who's asked to leave twice in 3 years at the club.

At this point I'll be genuinely mad if Rooney stays. I'll have to just stay out of this thread next season, I won't have many good things to say.
 
Even if Gill knew that Rooney was going to be shown the door or they'd agreed to part way s in some more amicable manner, he is unlikely to say so.
 
I'll be disappointed if he stays. I was looking forward to him leaving and seeing what Kagawa and Hernandez can do given a long run in the team.
 
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