I see Scholesy's best mate johmufc is at his best here.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
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Kagawa this season has been very average only showing glimpses of his talent in a few games. He has to show a lot more before people even start to consider he is worthy take over Rooney's role. A guy who has been a focal point to our success over the last decade.
Rooney's current behavior is actually more insulting than one would think. This is what he said 8 months ago:
“Hopefully in 10 years I’ll still be at United, that’s the aim and what I want,” he said. “As long as the club want me I’ll be here."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-transfer-request-as-his-biggest-mistake.html
"The manager has his say. 'Sometimes you look in a field and you see a cow and you think it's a better cow than the one you have in your own field. And it never really works that way'.
"He's saying the grass isn't always greener, and he's right. I like what's in my field. I'm wrong. United want the same as me: trophies, success, to be the best."
http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/169015.html#
“Hopefully in 10 years I’ll still be at United, that’s the aim and what I want,” he said. “As long as the club want me I’ll be here."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-transfer-request-as-his-biggest-mistake.html
"The manager has his say. 'Sometimes you look in a field and you see a cow and you think it's a better cow than the one you have in your own field. And it never really works that way'.
"He's saying the grass isn't always greener, and he's right. I like what's in my field. I'm wrong. United want the same as me: trophies, success, to be the best."
http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/169015.html#
Absolutely agree
He could have been advised badly by his agent. He's hardly an intellect. He asked for a transfer a number of weeks back prior to anyone knowing Sir Alex was to retire.
Its a two-way street. Rooney has to get his head down and work hard, and the club need to stop taking advantage of his versatility and give him a run in the same position.
On the money. I said that earlier in the thread. Rooney is basically a bit thick.
Yeah, I agree with that. It's just that people don't accept that their football club is actually a working place for some.
He isn't good enough for us to be willing to sacrifice the spirit of the club. Id rather Hernandez who has a genuine joy for playing for us get games ahead of Rooney and i have done all season.
Its been obvious since his first transfer request, the he just doesn't want to be here. He'll have somewhere lined up no doubt.
Its been obvious since his first transfer request, the he just doesn't want to be here. He'll have somewhere lined up no doubt.
What exactly is the point you are trying to make? This isn't about Kagawa. This is the second time Rooney has wanted to go. Whether he has been ill-advised by his agent, that's his problem.
What's there for him to consider? He's in his late 20's not a fecking teenager.
If he wants to go, let him go and get a good transfer fee in.
Fans can say they want Rooney to stay but he WANTS to go. How many high profile players stay at a club having expressed a desire to leave a club?
Taking advantage of his versatility? Please tell me you're joking
Still, I have never seen or even heard Rooney complain about this. Hell, he's even said that he doesn't care where he plays on the field, as long as he can contribute.
No I'm serious. Do you ever see any other superstars moved around the field as often as Rooney does?Taking advantage of his versatility? Please tell me you're joking
Still, I have never seen or even heard Rooney complain about this. Hell, he's even said that he doesn't care where he plays on the field, as long as he can contribute.
He is our employee and will play where we tell him to - I get that. I do believe that, while as a young player this can be beneficial to their development, Rooney is now at the stage of his career where he should be playing every week either up top or in behind the striker.
Why do you think he wants to leave the club? More money? I seriously doubt that. Mentally he has lost his way and I think that the club has some part to play in that. As I said before, it is a two-way street.
What the feck is your problem? Surely this has already won the award for the worst post of the year.
I personally think it's time we end this tedious crap and get rid of him, ideally as early as possible.
The fact is regardless of Rooney's conduct (which I am not a fan of) I can't see how he'd be able to stay anyway. He clearly is massively money-motivated (as a lot of players are, Rooney just seems to be near the top) and with 2 years left on his deal he and the club will be at odds. He will want at worst a 2-3 year contract extension on his current salary (and is likely to want another pay rise as it's his last contract), which will finish when he's nearly 33. The club on the other hand know this is the last opportunity to sell him and probably recognise that he is not as valuable a player as his salary indicates. Being one of the top 3 paid players in the world, whilst not being in the top 10-15 players in terms of performance in the World in over 2 years doesn't equate.
United are fortunate that Rooney is no longer the vital player he was the last time he wanted to leave and so are unlikely to buckle to his tactics this time round. In my opinion these are just the desperate tactics of someone looking for a new long term bumper contract. Some of his biggest fans will say he just wants a new challenge or is disillusioned at being on the bench occasionally... But to me this doesn't make sense. As Fergie said if he was playing even slightly to his capacity he'd be in the team (he'd be the next name on the teamsheet after RVP, Evra, De Gea and Carrick). If people believe he doesn't have the grit and determination to fight for his place, after previously complaining about the very same thing, then I'd disagree (although they'd be insulting his character far more than me for suggesting it's financial).
The problem that will arise now is what will actually happen. The only clubs that will be prepared to pay his salary along with a large transfer fee (£25m+) will be clubs in England who we won't allow him to go to and PSG/Russian clubs. As I said I'm sure Rooney knows that his main "power" at the moment isn't how vital he is to our team, as it was last time (because he's not actually that vital anymore), but how vital he could be to one of our English rivals. He is using this as his leverage.
The fact is regardless of Rooney's conduct (which I am not a fan of) I can't see how he'd be able to stay anyway. He clearly is massively money-motivated (as a lot of players are, Rooney just seems to be near the top) and with 2 years left on his deal he and the club will be at odds. He will want at worst a 2-3 year contract extension on his current salary (and is likely to want another pay rise as it's his last contract), which will finish when he's nearly 33. The club on the other hand know this is the last opportunity to sell him and probably recognise that he is not as valuable a player as his salary indicates. Being one of the top 3 paid players in the world, whilst not being in the top 10-15 players in terms of performance in the World in over 2 years doesn't equate.
United are fortunate that Rooney is no longer the vital player he was the last time he wanted to leave and so are unlikely to buckle to his tactics this time round. In my opinion these are just the desperate tactics of someone looking for a new long term bumper contract. Some of his biggest fans will say he just wants a new challenge or is disillusioned at being on the bench occasionally... But to me this doesn't make sense. As Fergie said if he was playing even slightly to his capacity he'd be in the team (he'd be the next name on the teamsheet after RVP, Evra, De Gea and Carrick). If people believe he doesn't have the grit and determination to fight for his place, after previously complaining about the very same thing, then I'd disagree (although they'd be insulting his character far more than me for suggesting it's financial).
The problem that will arise now is what will actually happen. The only clubs that will be prepared to pay his salary along with a large transfer fee (£25m+) will be clubs in England who we won't allow him to go to and PSG/Russian clubs. As I said I'm sure Rooney knows that his main "power" at the moment isn't how vital he is to our team, as it was last time (because he's not actually that vital anymore), but how vital he could be to one of our English rivals. He is using this as his leverage.
I agree with Bilbo that I cant believe this is anything to do with money.
A number of posters are saying Kagawa is his replacement in this thread, Steve, which I don't believe to be the case. I understand his agent is his representative, and ultimately he himself is responsible for his actions, but most agents are likely to give advice to suit their own agendas, and not all players are intelligent enough to understand.
I'm not saying he should be kept if he desires to move.
While I don't like Rooney, we shouldn't even consider selling him unless we have a proven, world class replacement lined up.
I really don't believe this latest issue is about money. I think he is just disillusioned with the way his career has stagnated and naturally feels that a change would benefit him.
As for his salary, none of us know what he earns but in terms of basic wage he might not even be one of the top 3 earning players in Manchester, let alone the world.
You know that is bullshit but I dont know why you type it. The likes of Beckham, Messi, Ronaldo, Ibra, Eto will all be earning more than him. Also not a top 15 player in the world in terms of performance for over 2 years? Again did you not see the last season where he scored 34 goals?
So could have been Alexander the Great, Ottoman, Caesar and all other greats in the past, but sadly we will never know. A man is only judged by what is perceived of him.
I have a feeling that players kinda knew, at least when they league is won, and nothing else to play for, even Moyes probably knew he will be offered the job.
But that's a different story.
I'm sad that it'll end the way it is, he could have been alot more better than just a prolific scorer, he could be heralded up there with the United legends, but sadly, his own wrongdoing will leave him much to regret for when the time finally comes
A lifetime of praise and place in the history of United is not worth a few hundred thousand pound
Where is he going to go that he will earn more than us, and still be winning trophies every year or 2?.
Only the sugar daddy clubs like the russians etc could pay him more than 200k, perhaps Madrid aswell but I cant see him going there.
Did I say anything about any other club offering him more money? Did I say he will win more trophies if he goes to Bayern or PSG?
I hope and I believe that Moyes will be pragmatic and logical about this.
Removing emotion from the equation, what is the best thing for Manchester United? Is it (a) to get our best player happy and back to his best form, or (b) selling our best player, if not to one of our direct league rivals, then certainly to one of our Champions League competitors.
Personally I believe Rooney will stay because I cannot envisage him moving to another country to live and work, and I strongly doubt that we will let him go to City or Chelsea.
The key point for me is how do we achieve (a)? I believe that removing Ferguson from the equation might change things, and a lot will depend on his relationship with Moyes. Aside from that I believe that simply giving him a commitment that, if he is fit and playing well, we will give him a run of games in a fixed position will help to solve a lot of these issues.
Removing emotion from the equation, what is the best thing for Manchester United? Is it (a) to get our best player happy and back to his best form, or (b) selling our best player, if not to one of our direct league rivals, then certainly to one of our Champions League competitors.
Personally I believe Rooney will stay because I cannot envisage him moving to another country to live and work, and I strongly doubt that we will let him go to City or Chelsea.
The key point for me is how do we achieve (a)? I believe that removing Ferguson from the equation might change things, and a lot will depend on his relationship with Moyes. Aside from that I believe that simply giving him a commitment that, if he is fit and playing well, we will give him a run of games in a fixed position will help to solve a lot of these issues.
John....I thought you were on the mend again. I knew the Rooney saga was going to do some damage to you, and I knew you'd be looking to lash out at everything, but even by your standards this is demented. I do genuinely think you care more about Rooney then you do United.
Your point would make sense if he actually has a move lined up and I will happily eat my words if his agent has got Barcelona, Madrid or Bayern interested. I highly doubt those teams will be in for him though and could your point really hold water if he signed for PSG?
I just can't see any club who could be considered a side step (not a step down) matching Rooney's salary and paying a big fee. If he does move down it will obviously be for financial gain. If his career is stagnating, is their any club in world Football that is better to be at in his situation and gives you more of a chance to regain form than Manchester United?
Beckham, Messi and Ronaldo earn more than him through sponsorships because of their brand, something that Rooney can't really control (to some degree). In terms of basic salary according to many sources he's only behind Eto'o and Ibra.
I'm surprised anyone would say he was in the top 10-15 players last season. He was scoring a lot but most would agree his overall performances weren't the best. In fact this form was praising the fact that he was actually scoring when not playing well, something that rarely happens with Rooney. The Ballon d'Or isn't the perfect indicator (and is measured on calender years) but despite having a good start to 2012, still he came behind Messi, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Xavi, Falcao, Casillas, Piro, Drogba, RVP, Ibra, Alonso, Toure, Neymar and Ozil - I'd agree there is a case for most of them.
For that kind of money, he is expected to score, and for that kind of money, we can easilly find his replacement.
Seriously, 250k / week is the salary for the likes of Drogba, Eto'o, Beckham, and probably much more than most player bar Messi/Ronaldo and probably a few of City player.
I would have taken Drogba, Eto'o, Beckham, and the rest in their prime, which is the level Rooney supposed to be performing
He's been shifted all over the pitch not because of his versatility, you don't utilise your top player versatility, it only works for the likes of JOS to temporary cover the gaps and tactical needs.
IMO he's just not good enough to replace RvN and Ronaldo at the front before him, RvP now, and to accommodate him he's shifted all over the park, which actually kinda hamper us. Having him around and having to play him around but not in his best position.
I wouldn't trust him leading the line for us myself, his erratic form means we can't fully rely on him over a season long. That 34 goals is a blip instead of the norm.
It's a difficult situation and his mega contract makes it much more difficult not to play him week in week out
Rooney has not got that street fighter ingredient in his make up any more, which together with his talent was a major part of what made him that special player. Basically age, Mrs Rooney, and the kids have made his a lesser footballer than he was in his youth. Which is generally different to the norm.
That is what makes Rooney unique! He should take it as a massive compliment. If doesn't, then he's arguably the dumbest player in the world. If we judge him quality for quality, then you'll find tons of better goalgetters, passers, dribblers etc. It's when you put all of his skills together that you get the brilliant player that he is.
Which is what he's been doing for 90% of this season, when he's not been injured or rested against weaker opponents. He's been on the bench occasionally to give Kagawa some playtime(except for the Real game, which was a tactical masterstroke anyways). But when he's played(which is pretty damn often, mind you), he's almost always played either behind the striker, or as the main striker.
Don't blame the club for Rooney's dim wittedness. This is all on him.
Personally, I think we've treated him too nicely. I don't think he's good enough to be an automatic starter anymore, yet he still seems to be. RVP is a better striker, and Kagawa is arguably a better AM, but that's a different topic.
I highly doubt that it's about the money now. I guess he's reached the bitter realization that he no longer makes as much of an impact as he used to. He's slowly starting to see that his next years aren't going to be as bright as his former glory years, and he just can't deal with that. He needs to be the star of the team, or at least one of the main "actors". My guess is that he'd rather go to a slightly weaker team and be the star there. As long as it's a top team with a CL spot and an equal or higher salary, then he'll probably have no problem signing for them.
Irrelevant. He said it. The damage was done. He now has to live with it and the reaction he is getting today is related.
This is the problem, he's not playing well consistently
Up top he's behind RvP, in the role he's behind Kagawa, and to put him on the wings doesnt always work out without Ronaldo and Tevez interchanging, plus no matter how good he is, he's no better than Nani/Valencia in the wing.
Unless he hits the form of his life, we're back to square one
Im sorry but do you actually know that Rooney is on 250K/week? The club havent confirmed that he is actually on that much per week have they?
You're that naive thinking he's causing a ruckus for 150k / week?
The undisputed fact is that he's the top earner in the team, and he hasn't justify that
This. To some extent, we took out the fire in him and he hasn't really become what we all thought he would. He's the type you want playing on the edge, adrenaline pumping in his blood. When he becomes calm he becomes sloppy. Which is why I hope we don't do the same with Rafael. A huge part of why Rafael is fantastic is because of his aggression and determination. So what if these players get a red card twice during the season. It's a small sacrifice.
This thread is going round in circles.
That is the problem. In his current form he isn't better than any of our other players in any given position.
The same is true of Welbeck and Kagawa, which is why they have had to play all over the place. Likewise Hernandez has started less games than he might have because he is directly competing with RVP.
As I said I would understand his stance if he himself were playing consistently very well in a set role - ie as a "number 10", or if he himself hadn't questioned the team. It is quite delicious irony.
So you dont actually have an exact number. You THINK he is earning 250k per week and you judge him based on that? He maybe the top earner in team but still we dont know how much. So to blindly say he is amongst the top 3 earners in the world is not right.
City, Chelsea and Madrid have the wage structure but I doubt he will go any of those clubs, two of them are English and I don't think Madrid are Interested in him. If he does leave, it will be footballing reasons, I don't think money has anything to do with this as I reckon his next club will either match his salary or he might even have to take a pay cut.
If we let him go to Chelsea or City, he will do for them what Van Persie has done for us this year. If he has to go it must be abroad for our own sake.
I want him to stay. Like him or loathe him, he is quality, but seems to be at a cross-road in his career. He needs something fresh to kick-start him again. Im hoping it will be the new manager and era here with us, if not it will be somewhere else and he will improve nearly any team he goes to.
One other reason is that i fear we are having to much of a shake up at one time. Continuity is key to success. Gill, Sir Alex, Rooney, Scholes, plus maybe a few others such as Nani, Anderson etc... Its not positive to have so much of a change in one hit.
I want him to stay. Like him or loathe him, he is quality, but seems to be at a cross-road in his career. He needs something fresh to kick-start him again. Im hoping it will be the new manager and era here with us, if not it will be somewhere else and he will improve nearly any team he goes to.
One other reason is that i fear we are having to much of a shake up at one time. Continuity is key to success. Gill, Sir Alex, Rooney, Scholes, plus maybe a few others such as Nani, Anderson etc... Its not positive to have so much of a change in one hit.
Ferguson said 'I think he should go away and think it over again'. Generally he's been pragmatic when concerning transfer requests, it's the not first time he's told a player to go away and think it over. I'd like to think it's just common sense. Unless Moyes carry grudges he'll act in the same way, it'd make more sense for Moyes to keep Rooney than sell him and weaken the team.
I really don't believe that we have seen anywhere near enough this season from Kagawa to suggest that he is the player to fill Rooneys boots should he leave.
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