Yeah, saying Ruud Van Nistelrooy who had a phenomenal goal to game ratio for this club was better than him makes people weird. Well done on using insults to try to win arguments. That'll get you somewhere.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter gooDevil
- Start date
- Status
Yeah, saying Ruud Van Nistelrooy who had a phenomenal goal to game ratio for this club was better than him makes people weird. Well done on using insults to try to win arguments. That'll get you somewhere.
Remember that one season where Wayne Rooney played in Ruud Van Nistelrooy's favoured position? Rooney managed a better goals to games ratio in that season than Ruud ever did at this football club. That's a fact. With that in mind, if you think Ruud was better than Rooney, then yeah, you're a weirdo. What other justification apart from "scores more goals", which isn't true, could you have for thinking Ruud is better t football? He had nicer hair?
I dunno if Ruud was a better player, a better striker sure, but Rooney does offer a lot to the team and his ability to play in a variety of areas, if not as well now, have helped us. I think Rooney is better now as the main striker rather than in the hole. The thing with Ruud though is that in his last few seasons I don't think we were as strong as we have been for the past few years. We didn't have the creativity of the defensive strength. A 26year old Ruud in the current united team would likely get more goals imo than Rooney or RVP for that matter imo.
I don't discuss with losers who need to insult to make their point stronger.
He could score 40 goals this season but people would still doubt him if his touch was bad or his passing wasn't up to Xaviesque standards.
I just checked and Rooney scored his 35 goals last season in even less games than he managed to score 34 in a couple of years back. And he hardly ever played CF last season. At this point I don't see how you can argue he's anything less than a better goalscorer than Ruud Van Nistelrooy was during his time at Manchester United.
Well that's very convenient for you, isn't it? How about don't 'discuss' with me, just answer a question:
Wayne Rooney scores more goals per game these days than Ruud Van Nistelrooy ever managed for Manchester United, despite rarely playing as a striker. With that in mind, what justifications could one offer in support of the claim that Ruud was better Rooney?
edit: Mea culpa, Rooney's best goalscoring season was actually marginally inferior to Ruud's best, because he scored 34 goals not 35. He got that one against Otelul taken off him.
Well that's very convenient for you, isn't it? How about don't 'discuss' with me, just answer a question:
Wayne Rooney scores more goals per game these days than Ruud Van Nistelrooy ever managed for Manchester United, despite rarely playing as a striker. With that in mind, what justifications could one offer in support of the claim that Ruud was better Rooney?
edit: Mea culpa, Rooney's best goalscoring season was actually marginally inferior to Ruud's best, because he scored 34 goals not 35. He got that one against Otelul taken off him.
To be fair, barring 02/03, Van Nistelrooy played in a United team with nothing like the quality of the one we've got now. Scholes and Giggs were not the players that they've been for the majority of Rooney's time here as a front man, Keane was way past it, Kleberson, Djemba Djemba and Miller were shite, and we even played Smith in centre mid.
He would've had an absolute field day having the likes of Evra, Valencia and Nani going down the wings and with the reformed Scholes/Giggs and Carrick in the centre.
I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest he would've got somewhere near Ronaldo's 42 goal tally with that supporting cast.
He would've had an absolute field day having the likes of Evra, Valencia and Nani going down the wings and with the reformed Scholes/Giggs and Carrick in the centre.
I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest he would've got somewhere near Ronaldo's 42 goal tally with that supporting cast.
Ruud scored 44 in all competitions in 2002-03.
150 goals in 5 seasons playing in a team not as good as the one we have now.
150 goals in 5 seasons playing in a team not as good as the one we have now.
Oh yeah shit, what the feck am I on about?
feck it, he'd score that in the league with this lot, then.
Not really, but I loved Van Nistelrooy when he was here - what an amazing striker he was.
feck it, he'd score that in the league with this lot, then.
Not really, but I loved Van Nistelrooy when he was here - what an amazing striker he was.One of those seasons he missed most of through injury too. Rooney might be a better player but he is not a better goalscorer.
At no point in his career has Wayne Rooney been as good a central striker as Ruud van Nistlerooy.
He has more talent in other areas of his game without a doubt, but for a good few seasons Van Nistlerooy was the best player in the world in that role, arguably our best ever.
He has more talent in other areas of his game without a doubt, but for a good few seasons Van Nistlerooy was the best player in the world in that role, arguably our best ever.
Theres too many intangibles to say he isn't as good as Ruud tbf, take out penalties and their records aren't all that far from each others, Ruud just above 1 goal every 2 Prem games, and Rooney just under it. And that doesn't take into account how much Rooneys position and the role he's asked to do has been changed, whereas Ruud was ALWAYS the guy up top because yeah he played in a weaker era for us so no competition.
I don't care how much "weaker" they were, but Scholes, Keane, Giggs and Beckham is still a better playmaking midfield than what we have now, it was the depth in that era that hurt us the most really. No real backup anywhere.
Ruuds european record is brilliant though, but so has Rooneys recent knockout game scoring record.
I don't care how much "weaker" they were, but Scholes, Keane, Giggs and Beckham is still a better playmaking midfield than what we have now, it was the depth in that era that hurt us the most really. No real backup anywhere.
Ruuds european record is brilliant though, but so has Rooneys recent knockout game scoring record.
I'm not denying the fact that a change of scenery does affect a player, I'm just saying it's not such a huge difference because he hardly played in a "stagnated" system or team, players came and left, his position on the pitch changed, etc.
He never played in one particular system or spot long enough for him to be so used to it that one would argue something like this.
Sorry, but Wenger has actualy been "forced" to keep "tweaking" the system for a while now, that's nothing against him, just pointing it out. It's not a shocker really, when your team goes through such a make-over and loses so many of its integral players it's something you'd expect, after all you have to do all you can as a manager to get the best out of the players at your disposal. Oh and where exactly did I say he "changes his ways every two years?" - which could also mean several things, but whatever.
I'm not going to try to keep this going, but for some reason you have a tendency to often pick out 1 little part of my post and comment on it while disregarding pretty much everything else in my post just so you could "find a mistake" or to better put it, find something you dissagree, while I try to respond to everything you wrote.
There's nothing wrong if someone points something out to you that you hadn't thought off or couldn't "see" at the time, it doesn't make anybody think any less of you, but what irritates me a bit is someone completely disregarding 90% of my post and finding one thing to "nitpick" on and in turn making it look like I don't know what I'm talking about.
Anyways I'm really not in the mood nor do I have any reason to "start a beef" (
) with someone, and it especialy makes no sense since I managed to have a good back and forth discussion with you for a while, so I'll just say thanks for the debate and hope we can have a better one next time EDIT: Oh and one more thing, Chabon made a pretty good point, the way he presented it might be a bit "harsh", but he does have a point.
Which was pretty much my point, and honestly there's no shame in not being as good a goalscorer as RvN, I can hardly think of anyone bar the very best (Messi, Ronaldo.)
I'd hope you read the article after you read the headline...
He's just reiterated what he's always said, he's not got the physique of a natural athlete. That's all, the rest of it's a load of tabloid bollocks.
He's just reiterated what he's always said, he's not got the physique of a natural athlete. That's all, the rest of it's a load of tabloid bollocks.
I read the whole thing. It underscores what the fans have known forever, rooney is a natural fatty and he should do more 'maintenance' on the off season instead of drinking and smoking.
I reckon ronnie even with his natural athletic physique does more to maintain his fitness on the off season, even if he doesn't need to given his natural state.
Rooney (well the club actually) should have him on some kind of light program on the off season so he doesn't waste 6 weeks when the season kicks off getting fit again.
All Sir Alex said was he is stocky and needs games to keep fit, you've just heard what you want to hear and gobbled up the rest of the crap.
Never understood this. Goals don't score themselves, and to score the amount and quality of goals players like Ruud and Rooney score, you need to be a seriously good footballer. Although it does depend on which league you are playing in, but these players score(d) regularly against the top teams in the world - Ruud scored 38 goals in Europe, for example.
Being a good goalscorer and a good footballer are one and the same.
Being a good goalscorer is equal to being a good footballer, but it's not the same thing, because you can still be a good or even excellent footballer even if you're not a good goalscorer. I don't know where the confusion is.
For example Hernandez is clearly the better scorer compared to Welbeck, but Welbeck has more to his game. Don't take this as me comparing Hernandez & Welbeck with RvN & Rooney as individual players, just trying to explain to you what someone means when they say a better goal scorer =/= a better player. And even when it comes simply down to goals Rooney's pretty damn effective as well.
'Having more to your game' is not the criteria for being considered a good footballer, it's how effective a player is at using whatever skills they have. Besides, it takes a serious amount of skill to score goals like Ruud - he had an incredible touch, amazing finishing technique and the kind of footballing intelligence to put himself in the best positions to do his job in the team: score goals.
Welbeck is considered a better player than Hernandez right now because he is more effective on the pitch. Yes, having 'more to your game' is definitely a good thing, but it means nothing if you don't do your job on the pitch; case-in point, Berbatov.
Another example: Phil Jones has a lot to his game. He's got pace, strength, good technique, passing and can play in a variety of positions. But is he a better player than say... Smalling?
And anyway, if you read my post closely, you would see I mentioned both Ruud and Rooney.
Better footballer, yes (see Welbeck, Berbatov and maybe Jones) Better at their respective position, no. You don't differentiate between those. Anyone with half brain will tell you Berba is a better footballer than Hernandez or even Welbeck. Is he a better striker (see goalscoring record)? that's another matter.
You definitely need to do this.
I don't because I've already differentiated between being a better footballer and being a better striker.
EDIT: And I know Berba's record in the league, it's roughly 0.4 goal/game, which is still good enough for a striker.
EDIT: And I know Berba's record in the league, it's roughly 0.4 goal/game, which is still good enough for a striker.
Great watch
I hope we'll see both Rooney and RVP firing on all cylinders this season. Even though it's vouge to bash rooney for the time being, remember how good he was in the 2010 season and the 2nd half of the 2011 season? It's not that long ago.
Heard a stat - If I am not mistaken United wins around 55% of their matches without Rooney. With Rooney United wins around 70%
Rooney haters, feck off.
Rooney haters, feck off.
omfg.
I can fully believe that, although I reckon it'd be different this season with RVP around.
I don't think there are any United fans who are "Rooney haters" by the way, no a fecking chance, superb player.
What? These days his goals to games ratio is as good as Ruud's ever was, that's a fact.
Okay, well you wanted a response so no it's not. Rooney's goal to games ratio isn't as good as Ruud's in his best season. That's a fact. I think it's .79 vs .85 or something per game.
Rooney's overall goalscoring record is again not as good as a man who scored 150 in 219 and then went to Real and scored 64 in 96 and had a 51 in 66 record in the CL for both clubs combined. Ruud, barring that one season for us where he played less due to injuries, has over 6.5 seasons for two clubs been a phenomenal goalscorer, and also has a better ratio for his country.
And to be fair, Ruud didn't play for as good a United side as we have now. We were good in that 02-03 season, although even then Arsenal were a better footballing side but we won through sheer mental strength (and his goals). But he also was here during the whole phase of Djemba Djemba, Bellion, Liam Miller etc. I mean we actually had Quinton Fortune in the starting line up ffs. Today our squad players (if you can call them that even) are the likes of Anderson and Young. The quality is much higher.
Rooney is brilliant and I expect him to better Ruud eventually but I don't think he's done it yet. I mean let's face it, if Rooney was so incredible last season Valencia wouldn't have been chosen as our best player by the players themselves. Had VP had the season he had for Arsenal last season, would Valencia be chosen as the best player of the season? No way. Goals are relevant but the context is as well. There's a reason why most people felt Van Persie had a much better season than Rooney despite the goals scored not being that different.
Anyway, I completely understand someone rating Rooney higher. He's a top player. But the name calling by Rooney fanbois everytime others don't rate their hero as high as them is childish and pathetic. So I'll stay away from this mind feck of a thread for awhile.
http://www.football365.com/news/21554/8053551/Rooney-Admits-His-Fitness-Isn-t-What-It-Used-To-Be
There's another version here where he talks about the Blackburn match when he was dropped and Fergie fining him. I'm not sure Fergie is going to be happy with that though.
There's another version here where he talks about the Blackburn match when he was dropped and Fergie fining him. I'm not sure Fergie is going to be happy with that though.
Wait, he's releasing a SECOND autobiography?
Richard Keys is going to see Wayne today and says The Mirror have omitted to mention that he came back 7ib overweight in 2009, not this year, not last year 2009. Talksport had loads ringing in saying how unprofessional he is, when it is all bullshit.
Fully expect that to be a fascinating read....
Edit: Not just a rooney comment, 99% footballers books are fecking tedious.
Believe it or not he's got a deal to release five.
I'd make releasing an autobiography before you're at least 50 a capital offense. Seriously. And yeah, I know, Roy Keane's book was the shits etc.
I don't care. First you get old then you reflect on your life and start writing about it. And fifty is not even old so I'm being lenient here.
I don't care. First you get old then you reflect on your life and start writing about it. And fifty is not even old so I'm being lenient here.
- Status