I don't know. His goalscoring was great, but he himself admitted that his football overall wasn't. I expect more from him than just getting goals because he has so much in his locker.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
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I don't know. His goalscoring was great, but he himself admitted that his football overall wasn't. I expect more from him than just getting goals because he has so much in his locker.
He was never a clear number 3 in anyone's but United fans eyes.
Yes he was, check it out.
No, he wasn't. There was never a clear number three, it was all subjective and still is except now there's no chance anyone could claim Rooney is the third best player in the world (in form van Persie could be though, feck knows really because there are so many at the same level).
He was never the clear no. 3, but he was commonly regarded as in and around there (in this country at least), although his potential was usually used as justification for that status which has sadly not come to fruition.
Doesn't really matter, he's certainly not the no. 3 in the world now.
This. He's miles behind Xavi and Iniesta and always has been. I've always loved him and for a few years he was our most important player but he was never no. 3 in the world.
Agreed.
2012: 15th
2011: 5th
2010: Not nominated
2009: 8th (Ballon 'Or) / 10th (Fifa WPOTY)
2008: 13th / Not nominated
2007: 26th / Not nominated
2006: Not nominated / 17th
2005: Not nominated / 19th
2004: 8th / 10th
I think those results are actually quite indicative of his performances (which isn't always the case with these kind of awards - see Scott Parker). He's never been in the top 3-4 players in the World but is intermittently in the top 10 (3 years in 9).
Christ, him not even being nominated in 2010 despite being by far the best player in England tells you all you ever need to know about what matters in World Cup years.
Bear in mind the voting is for the calender year of 2010 and although he had a great start to it he was awful or injured April - December, scoring twice I believe in all competitions.
But don't let that get in the way, Chabon...
People are using Ballon D'or results now? Sad.
Forlan came ahead of Ronaldo in that years voting, and in 2006 Cannavaro ridiculously won the thing. In a world cup year all that matters is the world cup.
You know..I would love it if he scored a hattrick tomorrow night. Brilliant player for us. Yeah ok, bit hot and cold this season, but he's been a brilliant signing. Not many other players can be put in so many various positions and still make an impact...
I'm still hoping he'll scored his 200th United goal this season, and he does need three, so that'd be grand. However I suspect Fergie will give him a try in midfield for the rest of the season, so perhaps it's not that likely.
I bloody hope not we've pretty much won the league now. Hopefully we can play with a bit more adventure and stop packing out the middle.
He will not score if he plays as deep as he has in the last two games
Here's a stat for you, I knew this was creeping up but hadn't realised he was right on the verge.
If he plays tomorrow night Wayne Rooney will make his 400th appearance for Manchester United, being only the 25th player to reach that milestone for the club.
If he plays tomorrow night Wayne Rooney will make his 400th appearance for Manchester United, being only the 25th player to reach that milestone for the club.
And he gets so much stick from our fans as if he's a failed signing
I'm not disputing the importance of the World Cup, but Rooney did not deserve to be nominated either way, he had a very poor 6 months for his club vs a very good 3 months (in addition to a poor World Cup).
Only 27 still as well. Who was the youngest to reach that milestone?
By nominated you mean in the top 20 or whatever it is, right? Because in those three months he was the best player in the world (19 goals, including 5 in 3 CL knockout ties) and while the rest of that year was relatively poor, that alone should have been enough to see him place somewhere in the rankings.
It'll be either him or Giggsy, I doubt any of the others were regulars at 18.
He's due a testimonial next year.
It's especially hypocritical on here. We mock and criticise Madrid fans for never really getting behind Ronaldo, but do the exact same thing to Rooney.
Forlan came ahead of Ronaldo because he scored 28 goals for Atletico that year, won the europa league with 2 goals in the final, was the world cup's best player, and top scorer. Ronaldo just came off his first season at Real, winning nothing.
Lets not go overboard - he was very, very good for those 3 months but wasn't the best player in the world. If the award was for 09/10 I would agree with you but I don't think way being great for 25% of the period and poor for 75% of it constitutes a great year, although I'd say that period was his best form as a United player. It really is a shame that he can't find that form more consistently.
Also I'm sure by the time the voting actually took place, the Jan-March period would be a distant memory for most of the voters, given the World Cup and finish to the year that Messi had.
A great achievement - no doubt. Perhaps it points out though why he's not quite the player he has been in the past.
It's the case that people mature physically at a different age. At 16 he was like a bloke, and therefore ended up being thrown into the fray at the top level.
Its also the case that some players bodies hold up better than others. Giggsy looks in great shape for his age - certainly down to effort and looking after yourself, but also being genetically lucky.
Big question is whether Rooney's body can keep up with his brain. At 27 he's played a boat load of games and with respect, is certainly going to have more trouble with keeping the weight off and staying sharp the older he gets, especially if niggles catch up and he has spells out injured.
He's a great player, no doubt - but the question is whether his best years are behind him. I'd personally hate to see him leave but if he's on as much as is reported you can perhaps see the logic behind the club thinking they can spend that sum better eslewhere.
Of course its all speculation, and I cant really see where he would go. He doesnt strike me as a lad who would want to go abroad.
It's not really the same at all. The people that don't get behind Rooney here are generally the ones that still hold the contract issue against him, there isn't anything similar to that with Ronaldo at Madrid.
Check what out?
I think Rooney gets a lot of stick due to the era we are in tactically as well. Rooney would have been rated a lot higher if Keane or Scholes had played behind him in a classic 4-4-2/4-4-1-1. But with the tactical approach teams has today where a midfield 3 is almost a necessity to keep possession - he does not have that perfect position for himself anymore.
He is not good enough to make sure United dominates possession in the middle to play as an AM nor is he suited for the lone striker role either. So he has lost a lot of "ranking" due to the change of the game. Just a point I don't see discussed as much as his own individual degeneration.
He is not good enough to make sure United dominates possession in the middle to play as an AM nor is he suited for the lone striker role either. So he has lost a lot of "ranking" due to the change of the game. Just a point I don't see discussed as much as his own individual degeneration.
I think this is mainly because he does have the ability to do this but hasn't shown enough of it on a consistent basis (barring 05/06 and the back end of 10/11). It's his inconsistency that stops him from being a player we know he can be.
A person would never think it if they just came in and watched Rooney now, but Rooney's touch has actually been amazing at times for United. In 05/06 it was at it's best in my opinion - not only was it a lot more consistent, but he'd often beat players with his first touch in such clever ways. We definitely saw a different Rooney in many ways after that 2006 world cup. That was the point whereby the quality and consistency of his touch began to really fluctuate.
There's possibly a degree of taking him for granted too though. Sometimes having thought he'd only been average in a game, I watch it back later (more dispassionately), and notice that he still regularly produces those deft little first touches or little bursts of pace which take him past a man or two. It's just that when he does something good, your mind thinks 'standard Rooney, one of our top players'. When he screws up - has a slightly heavy first touch, for example - you notice it, and the negative impressions are the ones that you take from the match because they're more surprising.
Go on Rooney lad. Bang in a few more and shut some of these jokers up. 197goals in 396 games for united.
Class.
Class.
Fair enough view - I do think we'll only see what we're missing when he's not here any more. At the same time though, I think we're finding it quite difficult to build some sort of system at the moment due to the difficulty of feeling like we have to play Rooney in that role behind the forward in spite of him not being absolutely suited to it because of his inconsistent general play. I do tend to try and watch as many reruns of old games as possible and feel that the difference in Rooney's game now as opposed to when he's been at his best (in those seasons stated) is quite apparent. I agree that a poor touch from Rooney is more noticeable simply because it sticks out so much coming from a player of that talent, but at the same time I think it's more prevalent than it should be irrespective of that. I also think it's his general level of comfort whilst in possession that suffers in comparison and not just his touch.
To some extent, I think we're in a bit of a situation with Rooney and that there is another level we can't really get to as a team unless the situation is resolved. Rooney at his best is easily good enough for that role and anyone we replace him with - be it Kagawa or some other signing - is highly unlikely to be as good as Rooney at his best. There's no doubt whatsoever for me though that having a player like Rooney with such inconsistent general play ahead of a two man midfield (that is arguably not quite strong enough in the first place) is one of the main reasons for our play through the centre being a bit lacklustre. There is a lack of innovation that makes us predictable and a lack of fluency that makes us inconsistent.
Usually whenever I start thinking like this he tends to really turn it on again, but to play like we do I think we need Rooney to be more consistent in terms of what that role requires. I think if the situation continues as it has been doing for another season or we should be looking at bringing him much deeper (no reason why he couldn't be a fantastic centre midfielder) or putting him back up top. In both situations we could get round the issues stated and move the emphasis towards parts of his game that are less likely to bring about such inconsistencies.
I agree with you but I think not only his touch is inconsistent.
But certainly Rooneys inconsistency is what holds him back and is possibly the reason to why the 2 most expensive transfers since Rooneys arrival has been on strikers. Rooney has a certain type of inconsistency which is more often seen at lower levels than at the world class level. I can only really think about Zlatan who can drop so substantially in almost every part of his game - while still remaining a world class player like Rooney.
One game he may look as if he is the least clinical finisher in the PL, the next game he may look like his touch is terrible, the other his decision making may be completely off. The same goes for Zlatan who also drops from a brilliant level in pretty much every part of the game to a much much lower randomly.
Of course both of them still have games where every part of their game is at their top level - but they also have as many games where one part is lacking.
I think a player like Zlatan/Rooney can't have a team built around them at the absolute highest level because when they fluctuate the teams then fluctuates with them. I think that is why Fergie bought Berbatov and RVP in hope of having another striker with a similar skill-set as Rooney. To let someone take over the responsibility when Rooney is having a bad game. It has also been quite visible in his use of RVP this season. There has been little doubt that if one of Rooney/RVP has to be swapped out it is almost inevitably going to be Rooney.
If Rooney is playing well he gets to take a new tactical position instead often.
Yeah, the Ibrahimovic comparison is a good one actually. I'd never considered it before. Agreed also on the point regarding building a team around players like this - it's a risk in a way.
I think this is where it's getting to be a bit of a problem with Rooney in that this ratio is getting steadily less and less favourable. The few times in the last 2 years I remember Rooney putting it all together and producing those all round immense displays include the 4-4 Everton game from last year, that run of games back from his first injury this year and a few others that I know happened but can't remember the opposition. My memory is admittedly pretty poor but I am struggling beyond those mentioned to come up with games whereby he hits top form.
The productivity is obviously not in doubt and he's a wonderful player to have because of that, but I think that's why he's probably more suitable as a front man at the moment. It seems unwise to have a player like that being so fundamental to everything we do going through the centre when his higher levels of performance are so rare comparatively. This is obviously before going into how the winger situation is currently exacerbating this problem also.
I think this is where it's getting to be a bit of a problem with Rooney in that this ratio is getting steadily less and less favourable. The few times in the last 2 years I remember Rooney putting it all together and producing those all round immense displays include the 4-4 Everton game from last year, that run of games back from his first injury this year and a few others that I know happened but can't remember the opposition. My memory is admittedly pretty poor but I am struggling beyond those mentioned to come up with games whereby he hits top form.
The productivity is obviously not in doubt and he's a wonderful player to have because of that, but I think that's why he's probably more suitable as a front man at the moment. It seems unwise to have a player like that being so fundamental to everything we do going through the centre when his higher levels of performance are so rare comparatively. This is obviously before going into how the winger situation is currently exacerbating this problem also.
Five League titles now. Still only 27 years old. He could realistically better Alan Hansen's record before he retires which would be a marvellous achievement. I think we'll forget about Giggs' record as Giggs will probably be on 18 titles then! 
He started off brilliantly in his role tonight, got things up and running, but looked fed up in the second half. Can't really blame him. Villa were dead and buried by then and he had nothing to do back there.
To play in midfield you need perpetual movement, you can't stand still.. someone like Xavi makes it look effortless, but the guy never stands still, always moving into pockets of space and trying to support the man on the ball. For all the talk of Rooney's engine, its very noticeable that he doesn't move as much these days and in the second half, he looks a little tired and stops moving into positions to recieve the ball and our attacking play breaks down.
He has alot of things going for him as a midfield player but that constant movement is missing and he needs to get super fit if he wants to play in the midfield position.
He has alot of things going for him as a midfield player but that constant movement is missing and he needs to get super fit if he wants to play in the midfield position.
Spot on. Noticed that too.
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