Another brilliant performance but I am still not convinced he is our solution to central midfield. I still think want us to keep him and play him higher up either in CAM or left wing interchanging with Kagawa.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter gooDevil
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Couldn't agree more. If he really is to play in midfield permanently, it will be difficult for him to get out of that mindset of standing still, which is not surprising considering he is a striker by trade.
Hope he's here next season (and beyond).
He played some brilliant passes tonight, showing that he can affect the game from a deeper position.
He played some brilliant passes tonight, showing that he can affect the game from a deeper position.
What about Scholes circa 2006-12?
I can see Rooney taking up a similar kind of role when he's 30+, and Rooney's got a better engine than Scholes ever had.
I think Fergie is probably seriously considering this as the future. We know how much he loves buying strikers, and what a good record he has there, where as midfielders, not so much. So if he can push Rooney into midfield and make it work, and then buy a striker as Rooney's 'replacement' I think he'll go for that option.
I dont see the other reason for why Rooney keeps being played there, its not like there's an injury crisis (as have forced Rooney there in the past). I think Fergie's testing it out.
I dont see the other reason for why Rooney keeps being played there, its not like there's an injury crisis (as have forced Rooney there in the past). I think Fergie's testing it out.
It'll take a few seasons for Rooney to become comfortable in a midfield role. Are we willing to put the team through that? I'd rather we bought some midfield talent and focus on Europe next season.
If he's going to play there I'd like to see him trying more shots from around the penny box.
He played well tonight, but he had plenty of time and space. Like I've said before I hope a rejuvenated United next season brings about a rejuvenated Rooney!
He played well tonight, but he had plenty of time and space. Like I've said before I hope a rejuvenated United next season brings about a rejuvenated Rooney!
But like Raees said, it is not all about the engine. Movement is more important for a central midfielder than having an engine. Rooney movement of the ball in central midfield aint as good as someone like Scholes or Xavi but to be honest its not his fault. His thinking isnt the same as a genuine central midfielder. Look at the way someone like Scholes move everytime he touches the ball. Constantly moving and making space for your teammates really help especially if they get stuck in a tight position.
Take a look at this video. We all know how a good passer Scholes is but look at his movement, especially the small, quick passes that he makes and then is on the move again and again.
Couldn't have said it better. Good points mate.
I thought he did very well yesterday, not sure why Fergie substituted him. Was slightly unfair on him.
If he already moved, passed and defended like a first rate midfielder there wouldn't be anything to discuss. If he can indeed make this transition the movement will come as he settles into the role. Scholes didn't move like a deep lying play making genius when his role was a more offensive one.
Whether he can be transformed, whether the experiment is worth it – these are legitimate questions. But you can't use Rooney's present limitations (such as the fact that he doesn't move around off the ball like a natural born midfielder) as an argument against him becoming an excellent CM. IF he settles into the role his movement will change, as will his short passing and all the rest of it. The premise here is that Rooney has the potential to re-invent himself as a midfielder – nobody's saying he already is one.
Whether he can be transformed, whether the experiment is worth it – these are legitimate questions. But you can't use Rooney's present limitations (such as the fact that he doesn't move around off the ball like a natural born midfielder) as an argument against him becoming an excellent CM. IF he settles into the role his movement will change, as will his short passing and all the rest of it. The premise here is that Rooney has the potential to re-invent himself as a midfielder – nobody's saying he already is one.
I think against sides like Stoke and Aston Villa he can play as a CM as there is lots of space for him to play in, but overall he lacks the close control and agility for the role against teams with good midfield's.
That assist for RVP ... I'm lost for words, a great pass made even look better by that fantastic finish
I'm scared that Fergei wants to sell him. He really wasn't happy with him second half.
But that first half pass. Lard--- a---masay......
But that first half pass. Lard--- a---masay......
I felt this. Especially when SAF made a big issue about subbing him against west ham because Kagawa was playing better. That wasn't the case last night.
I hope we keep him but I have a feeling SAF has other plans.
He was actually spraying them all over the pitch that first half. Some of the passes out to Valencia like the one leading to the first goal were Scholesesque.
I doubt it. What would be the point dicking around with this centre mid experiment if he planned to sell him in a few weeks, wouldn't make sense.
He was actually spraying them all over the pitch that first half. Some of the passes out to Valencia like the one leading to the first goal were Scholesesque.
1st half he was up there with the Schweinstiegers of this world at their best. Personally I believe he could with time become stupendous in such a role given how he loves being involved during games. It's just I wonder if he'll be given the chance. SAF did'n t seem pleased with him 2nd half. And when Rooney hit his groove again he withdrew him. Rooney didn't look pleased at all.
Completely agree to everything really. I said at the start of the season that I would like to see Rooney as a CM if he can't play as a striker. I think that as a CM he will be good enough even at his worse days and it will also be highly visible when he has his "I can't do short-passes today" and he could be subbed quickly then.
His career will also be extended if we go for it which is the major reason for it in Fergies eyes I believe. However that Kagawa, Carrick, Rooney trio looked extremely uncomfortable together. Kagawa wants someone who can play with him, rather than receiving a ball and having to find a long through-ball or challenge the defense with a run.
He seemed to be in a robotic mode running and running and when he finally got the ball he waited for a run and got annoyed when it didn't come so he just passed the simplest pass back. Rooney really needs to go forward to provide these runs for us if he wants to play as a CM.
Cleverley is exceptional at linking up with Kagawa, mainly because he drives forward in the offense.
No way? Did you guys not see his positional play especially defensively. He showed extreme potential, the potential to be up there as better than "the Schweinsteigers" but is not there by now.
Sure his offensive qualities are there, the creativity, the passing, the cross balls but even there he failed to find his positions. Kagawa suffered a lot because Rooney stayed too low so Kagawa had to pass back as the only option constantly.
The guy had an amazing display showing brilliant potential but we can't pretend it was some kind of "best in the world" type of performance. Give him the summer to just find his positions and he will surpass Schweinsteiger but for now he is still a rough diamond.
I agree completely. Rooney's first half performance was absolutely fantastic and everything we did was going through him. Unfortunately Rooney occasionally coasts when were comfortable which is what we saw early in the second half before he got back into the game then was unfortunately hooked.
I'd like to see him there against Arsenal. People are expecting him to be perfect there already but he still has a fair bit to learn about positioning himself in a midfield two but to me early signs suggest it could be a fantastic move. Plus him and Kagawa can swap. Carricks passes split defenses, a few of Rooneys took the defense out f the game completely (see second goal
) as a striker he knows exactly how, when and where a striker wants the ball payed and that's a plus I think Scholesy had too. I am however till a bit cautious. SAF seems a bit weird in regard to Rooney atm. He was our in form striker a few weeks ago now he's pulling strings in midfield. I hope we keep him here.
The pass for rvps goal was fantastic but I still don't see a quality midfielder in him. Cross field passing to wide players aside, he still plays there like an attacker a lot of the times. He doesn't pass and move and provide fluidity the way you want your central midfield to. Apart from that, against midfields that really contest every ball and press us, he will struggle.
I think he's an excellent player that can do a decent job anywhere but I hope it is used as an option once in awhile rather than something more long term. Hopefully we see him hurting teams further forward soon.
I think he's an excellent player that can do a decent job anywhere but I hope it is used as an option once in awhile rather than something more long term. Hopefully we see him hurting teams further forward soon.
So he's back to midfield solution after a decent half against a pretty poor Villa, perspective please.
I agree completely. Rooney's first half performance was absolutely fantastic and everything we did was going through him. Unfortunately Rooney occasionally coasts when were comfortable which is what we saw early in the second half before he got back into the game then was unfortunately hooked.
I'd like to see him there against Arsenal. People are expecting him to be perfect there already but he still has a fair bit to learn about positioning himself in a midfield two but to me early signs suggest it could be a fantastic move. Plus him and Kagawa can swap. Carricks passes split defenses, a few of Rooneys took the defense out f the game completely (see second goal
I am however till a bit cautious. SAF seems a bit weird in regard to Rooney atm. He was our in form striker a few weeks ago now he's pulling strings in midfield. I hope we keep him here.
We have no idea what SAF thinks. He may think Rooney can play centre-midfield but against good teams, he will be lost.
In terms of recent Rooney substitutions and Kagawa moving into the No10 position, could it be not as simple as opportunities to blood Kagawa in that position in a United context?
Rooney and Kagawa cannot "swap" because Kagawa is not a midfielder per se and I wish people would stop thinking that. Where Rooney can cope with centre-mid, Kagawa definitely can not.
I do think Rooney looks subdued at the moment, and has the look of a player who knows he's probably leaving (bit like Beckham did at the end of his final United season). However, we don't know SAF's transfer plans at the moment, but with no major international tournament this summer, any transfer activity may conclude quite early.
How was Bastian performing as a CM at first when he made the switch from the winger position ? Did he take off immediately ?
He was actually spraying them all over the pitch that first half. Some of the passes out to Valencia like the one leading to the first goal were Scholesesque.
Really? I'd say most of the long range passes got cut out than actually made it.
I think he did, but he was never a winger in the Robben/Ribery sense, was he? Plus, Schweinsteiger has always passed the ball calmly and precisely anyway, whereas Rooney is a striker and a very explosive player.
I think Rooney did well but still has a lot to learn in that position. Some lovely long passes but struggled to get turned and get the ball forwards into feet. His movement was a bit unnatural too. Didn't have that instinctive awareness of where to move after releasing the ball. Which is to be expected, in fairness.
I hope SAF isn't actually trying to convert him to a midfielder, not yet anyway, give him a few years.
I want to see him up front alone and not in midfield nor as No 10, but I really don't know how RVP's presence places Rooney now. Much as he likes to create, he as much as any striker loves a tap-in.
Personally I just like him further up front - really enjoyed that period when he was knocking them in with his head.
I'm just sad that Rooney looks a bit subdued at the moment.
If Rooney were to become a midfielder then I feel that it would have to be in a formation such as:
-----------Carrick-------Matic-----------
------------------Rooney----------------
---Valencia-------------------Kagawa---
-------------------RVP------------------
Something akin to City or Bayern in formation. Obviously we need to sign another shielding midfield player. Matic is just demonstrative.
-----------Carrick-------Matic-----------
------------------Rooney----------------
---Valencia-------------------Kagawa---
-------------------RVP------------------
Something akin to City or Bayern in formation. Obviously we need to sign another shielding midfield player. Matic is just demonstrative.
"Matic is demonstrative"...explain?
Last night showed the good and the bad of Rooney in that position I feel. He is generally excellent playing when he has huge space to express himself. He can have room to run in to, he can look up and spread the ball brilliantly.
My concern of him in there is when it becomes more congested. He doesn't really have the feet/guile to manouvere and resist pressure, and that may become a problem in the thick of the action. A couple of times last night he looked rather flustered when Villa pressed him quickly. Also, I think he still has a lot to offer further forward. He's still at the very least, a comfortably better striker than Welbeck and Hernandez.
My concern of him in there is when it becomes more congested. He doesn't really have the feet/guile to manouvere and resist pressure, and that may become a problem in the thick of the action. A couple of times last night he looked rather flustered when Villa pressed him quickly. Also, I think he still has a lot to offer further forward. He's still at the very least, a comfortably better striker than Welbeck and Hernandez.
My guess is that he mens Matic was used merely as an example to demonstrate what he means. Matic could probably be replaced with another midfielder.
Rooney has the intelligence and the awareness to find pockets of space, but it's the concentration element and the fitness element that I was alluding to... spanish player's just never stand still, this country overrates it's players fitness levels... guys like Gerrard are seen as box to box lung busting midfielders, but someone like Xavi covers insane ground and it's just continuous repetition of clever little movements to keep supporting the play and link up the entire team from defence, midfield and attack.
It's why Scholes is such a rarity in English football and why I admire Wilshere, he has that in him.. constant movement. Cleverley is also a player we possess that has this as an asset, he is tireless at his best and helps knit the side together but albeit he isn't quite at the other players level but he understands that movement is important in midfield. Lampard and Gerrard only cared for movement when it come to the final third and timing runs into the box, they never applied themselves properly in deeper roles and were lazy in terms of movement off the ball. It's why England look so poor at International Level when it comes to ball retention, they look very static.
Yeah I found comments like that strange. "Some wonderful passes in the first half"...I'm sure he tried that same pass to Valencia four or five times in the first half, the commentators ooh'd and aah'd at the majestic flight of the ball and then the defender intercepted it pretty easily. Two great passes in the first half in the build-up to the goal covered up that sloppiness and the loose touches, risky dribbling and all-round poor decision-making just got worse in the second half.
He made 2 good key passes, so all the rest is obviously forgotten.
The closest Rooney should be to midfield is in the 3 man pivot we used against Arsenal earlier in the season. Cleverley, Rooney, even Carrick got forward in that game. Rooney did a job on Arteta and Cleverley on Wilshere, alternating at times. We dominated that game.
I agree with what Raees said, but then how does that translate to playing well further forward as an AM or striker? Those same qualities are needed and i always feel it's a matter of how Rooney applies himself over the 90min.
I agree with what Raees said, but then how does that translate to playing well further forward as an AM or striker? Those same qualities are needed and i always feel it's a matter of how Rooney applies himself over the 90min.
Agreed.
He made a couple of passes that were truly sensational (particularly for the goal), but I thought yesterday made it obvious that he hasn't got the touch, control, interplay and movement to be a central midfielder.
I agree with you on this, good post.
However, I think it's not impossible from him to improve that aspect of his game, beacause I think that's one of the thing some players are able to improve.
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