Rooney furthest forward and RVP support striker.
Debate solved.
Debate solved.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
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The second clip shows his intelligence and desire.. after his great pass he darts into the box into a position where he's unmarked, if the ball had been crossed to him, he could have easily finished that move but even if it had happened we would still hear people criticising him for scoring tap ins.
While the gifs are nice and show he can have great moments of skill you could just as easily throw together a few of miscontrolling the ball and fecking up plenty of times. It would be harder to find that with Van Persie.
Rooney makes more mistakes because he still takes risks and still tries to be the main influence in our play, IMO. He's a bit like Giggs in that sense. Van Persie tries to keep things simple when he's not at his best more often than not. No question his technique's better so you'll see less sloppy passes but there's more to it than that. Rooney never has quiet games.
Skill, technique, hold up play, close control/touch. Rooney really doesn't outstrip RvP at anything other than possibly work rate.
And I do think Rooney is an awesome footballer by the way, I just think it's clear that RVP is an even better player.
Shocking? erm, hyperbole city, here we come.
By this do you mean that he never has 6 or 7/10 games, or do you mean that every game he does something brilliant. If it's the former then fair enough, the latter I hugely disagree with.
I'm not a fan of GIF's myself (transfer muppetry GIFs or otherwise). Every Footballer at a top level team will have a good 10 minute highlight reel at the end of the season that will make them look like Messi.
Likewise every Footballer will have a reel that will make them look like a pub player. I believe that Rooney's "pub player" reel would be far, far longer than the majority of top level players, certainly Van Persie's whose would be comparatively short.
Word.
That's news to me. Rooney, especially when playing in RVP's position has had many many quiet games down the years.
You have no basis for saying that. Whatsoever. Did anyone here watch most of his games at Arsenal?
I have no idea what you are telling him he has no basis for. Whatsoever?
The last time he played that position was in 09/10 and he was the best player in the league
This. First goal against City, that long pass assist to RVP in the champions league, brilliant goal against Norwich off the top of my head.
If you made a compilation of both players ultimate highlights Rooney's would be better. Chips, screamers from way out, long curling shots, that overhead kick vs City.
Saying that Rooney's pub moments far exceed that of many top players. It's inaccurate and I called him out on it.
I'm not so sure it's inaccurate at all, for a top top player Rooney really does have those days when his touch is absolutely dreadful. I reckon the highlight reel of Rooney's poor touches would far exceed that of many top players like RvP for example.
Aye, just like RVP has been the best player in the league for the past 2 seasons. Still doesn't mean that Rooney didn't have plenty of quiet games, he did.
There's still no question to me that up top is Rooney's best position, but as with any forward playing up top alone, you're bound to have quiet games. The idea that Rooney never has quiet games is just a little silly.
Really? I mean, come on, let's not be silly. Some of the goals RVP has scored down the years are quite simply outrageous, just like Rooney.
That RVP volley against Charlton is the most "impossible" volley I've ever witnessed.
Make a compilation of the last two seasons of brilliant moments and Rvp would be comfortably ahead. His technique is simply superior and it allows him to produce moments of magic more often.
How convenient to use the past 2 seasons.
Not sure why we should cut it down to the last 2 seasons though? RVP and Rooney would both have an unbelievable highlight reel over their careers, both have scored some ridiculous goals. To say either would have a better highlight reel than the other is garbage imo.
GIFs are like sound bites of youtube compilations. It's simply inductive 'evidence' but only meant to show a certain angle. Therefore not entirely accurate in the full scope of things. Brwned posted GIFs of RvP in the van Persie thread showing bits of skill to demonstrate despite his goalscoring lull, he was still producing moments of individual quality. If you don't watch the match in depth then it's easy to be deceived. To me, this notion is valid for both Rooney and RvP. GIFs are what they are, they show things on the surface and in clips of 5-15 seconds. At the same time, they can't offer the full perspective of a player's performance. A video compilation showing all of the player's touches does a better job of that.
This post is simply a general point about what we use to construct our points. Stats are a very popular tool and it seems like GIFs are becoming popular as well. Both don't pain the whole picture but sometimes fans treat it as if they do.
It's weird that Brwned said Rooney never has a quiet game. You simply have to find one game where such a claim is quite contentious and it doesn't hold up. Far easier to do than showing Rooney never has a quiet game. Part of it has to do with where they're played imo.
van Persie occasionally drops from the 9 position to try and contribute towards the build up. There have been games where the whole team isn't playing up to par and he doesn't get involved as much. In fact, there have been some games where he tends to stay high. There is some sense to this as you want to have an outlet up top. Plus, you don't want to overcrowd the space which your teammates occupy. You're more likely to have a quiet game playing further up top. Especially if the team isn't performing well. We've seen this with Rooney and let alone any forward that plays in that position. When you're starved of service, it's hard to contribute much to the overall play.
Where Rooney mainly plays now, he can't really afford to have a quiet game. Albeit he's had some very poor ones. It can become a hindrance because when he does have a poor game, he still wants to influence the game. While this is well-intended it takes away from our build up simply because Rooney is fecking up the moves with a poor touch, pass or whatever else he does on an off day. And this is the player that some refer to as the heartbeat of our team.............
Well it's been going on ever since he's arrived in the Premier League.
If we're comparing them as players then surely were looking at the recent past rather than their whole careers.
I can't believe the amount of stick Rooney gets from some on here, he is a world class football player who has consistantly produced for us since he came here. He is well on his way to beating our club scoring records and the way some talk you'd think he was peter crouch. He brings so much to the team often producing match winning performances which is what you want from your forward players.
What we did in the summer is take some off the over reliance on him, which was sensible, we now have two world class players in that area of the pitch, much like when Ronaldo was here this clearly makes us much stronger. We as fans should be pleased by this, it is also be the way something Rooney requested when the whole contract thing took place, something some hold against him! We should always look to improve th squad with quality and that is of course what RVP is and also what Rooney is why would we reduce that quality when we have clearly seen what its done for us this year, i.e. when one isn't scoring the other takes up the mantle.
What we did in the summer is take some off the over reliance on him, which was sensible, we now have two world class players in that area of the pitch, much like when Ronaldo was here this clearly makes us much stronger. We as fans should be pleased by this, it is also be the way something Rooney requested when the whole contract thing took place, something some hold against him! We should always look to improve th squad with quality and that is of course what RVP is and also what Rooney is why would we reduce that quality when we have clearly seen what its done for us this year, i.e. when one isn't scoring the other takes up the mantle.
If we're comparing them as players then surely were looking at their whole careers than their recent past. Not sure what your logic is amol.
Of course if we did compare their whole careers Rooney would eat VP for breakfast in terms of just the quality of his highlight reel, demonstrating his class. Rooney has just had a more successful career than VP. He's not as injury prone as RVP and was at the right club. Comparing them as individual players, it is very close for me.
Some of it probably comes from people thinking they're seeing the writing on the wall and trying to let themselves down easily for when (they believe) he inevitably leaves. That's the sense I get around here and the Tweeter lately.
If we're comparing them as players then surely were looking at their whole careers than their recent past. Not sure what your logic is amol.
Of course if we did compare their whole careers Rooney would eat VP for breakfast in terms of just the quality of his highlight reel, demonstrating his class. Rooney has just had a more successful career than VP. He's not as injury prone as RVP and was at the right club. Comparing them as individual players, it is very close for me.
Right, so if I'm to decide who the best player in La Liga is right now, then I should look at the last few years or the last 10? Comparing whole careers and players in their present form are two very different things. If I say Suarez IS better than Giggs, then I'm clearly not comparing their entire careers and I'm pretty this is exactly how people generally compare players.
Spot on mate, couldn't agree more.
Rooney, as sensational as he is, is a notoriously streaky player. Yes, he does have quiet games. Sometimes 3 or 4 straight. But then he'll go on a rampage, followed by another 3-4 quiet game run.
Maddening, but we've known this for a very long time and we've come to accept tha bargain.
Maddening, but we've known this for a very long time and we've come to accept tha bargain.
I'm just happy to have Rooney and RVP at the club for me Rooney is tops but I hope we get somebody better than both in the summer. But it won't start me slagging of Rooney or RVP that some have resorted too.
So Rooney has regular 3-4 game quiet runs? Really? Even when Rooney isn't having his best game and he's having the odd poor touch and/or wayward pass here and there, he gets involved, doesn't shy away and tries to influence the play. He even pops up with important goals/assists despite not having played particularly well for the 60-odd minutes before it - Norwich at home is a recent example. There are times when Rooney hasn't been the quickest to find form following an injury which isnt unique to him, but you're making it seem as though he frequently goes missing for 3-4 games which just isn't true at all.
Erm.. You conveniently want to just take in the last two years because that's when RVP has hit his peak. And besides Rooney and RVP had very similar careers in terms of the types of clubs they've joined and stayed there for a proper amount of time. Why would you compare Suarez and Giggs ?
I'm comparing Rooney and RVP. Two of the top strikers in the world who are in a similar age group who competed for the same silverware for almost all of their respective careers.
Rooney will only be appreciated by some when he eventually leaves.
But this thread goes around in circles, I will never get it. He is either our best player or one of our best players. Either way hugely important and a big part of every success the club has had since he signed.
IMO he is a better and more important player than RVP. If I had to decide between the two, I would choose Rooney. But luckily I don't and neither do any of you.
But this thread goes around in circles, I will never get it. He is either our best player or one of our best players. Either way hugely important and a big part of every success the club has had since he signed.
IMO he is a better and more important player than RVP. If I had to decide between the two, I would choose Rooney. But luckily I don't and neither do any of you.
Agree with the first 2 parts of your post. Not sure about the last. I think it's very very close between them.
Erm.. You conveniently want to just take in the last two years because that's when RVP has hit his peak. And besides Rooney and RVP had very similar careers in terms of the types of clubs they've joined and stayed there for a proper amount of time. Why would you compare Suarez and Giggs ?
I'm comparing Rooney and RVP. Two of the top strikers in the world who are in a similar age group who competed for the same silverware for almost all of their respective careers.
Rubbish. Rooney's been playing in one of the most competitive sides in the world for most of his career, whilst RVP's mainly been scrapping for CL places and the odd cup, watching Arsenal's best players leave for elsewhere.
Arsenal have been in the Champions League every year since the 2000-01 season and are a top four side so don't know the feck you on about. And you're telling me that Arsenal aren't a competitive side? And besides Rooney isn't some Darron Gibson that just happens to be in a club that wins a lot of trophies mate. He has been pivotal for our success in the past decade.
Oh one more thing, Robin Van Persie was on the bench in the Arsenal Barcelona 2006 CL final so before you embarrass yourself again, read up a little.
Wow, you're seriously trying to suggest that Arsenal have been as competitive as United in recent years.
Wind your neck in you gimp.
You mean the timeframe when RVP has finally gotten free of injuries and been the better player? Yes, because that is exactly how you compare players. If Suarez out performs RVP for the next two years I'll have to admit he'll be the better player then irrespective of what happened 5 years prior.
And I'm not even talking about there being some 2 year limit on this. You always choose the "recent past" when comparing players surely, whether you want to consider that as 2 or 4 years, whatever. But taking a decade makes no sense whatsoever.
Technically only the present should be relevant in comparing player as of today but because it's too short a period as an indicator we take a longer period, but that doesn't mean we overdo it and take an abnormally long period.
Similarly if Suarez (who is easily my most hated footballer) is better than any United player over the next 2-3 years, I'll say he's better than anyone we have.
Only in a discussion regarding Rooney does one have to clarify such things.
For what it's worth, I don't think either player is on a different level to the other or anything like that. But I personally think RVP is the superior player. Both are brilliant though.
Only in a discussion regarding Rooney does one have to clarify such things.
For what it's worth, I don't think either player is on a different level to the other or anything like that. But I personally think RVP is the superior player. Both are brilliant though.
Why does it matter if one is better or more important than the other?
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