Agreed. Our DM is also stupid. No shape and awareness about dangerous area. They just like kids, following where the ball is.
Wth they’re crowding that flank, with none on the center.
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Wth they’re crowding that flank, with none on the center.
Tbf. It’s a tough situation for Lindelof. Although he’s so far behind, he kept everone inside. But blaming AWB for that is a poor sight, imho. Fullback is often faraway up, if you want your fullback to attack. You can’t expect your fullback to attack, then expecting him back to cover in a flash during counterattack. That’s just stupid.
I think the blame should be shared with Maguire and Shaw. Both were responsible to that flank. And both were easily bypassed. Wth Maguire was so far on that flank, and Shaw made a half heart attempt on going back chasing.
Like @Kostov said, it’s a clusterfeck of Defensive shape.
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Still image is misleading.
By sequence of play leading to Brighton second goal, Lindelof Matic and Fred did well. Lamptey tried to move in the pocket of space between our player. Matic covered the space left when Lindelof picked Lamptey. This however left Brighton #17 with plenty of space. Then Fred and Matic pressed #17 blocking his easy pass/ cross into our box (even a shot at goal is possible), thus forcing him to pass out wide. The crosser(assister for the goal) should have been marked.
Shaw is the main culprit. He was supposed to tightly mark this player. He did another questionable walk away from his mark. Why Shaw needs to walk back toward our goal, leaving crosser plenty of time? Shaw has bad tactical awareness. See my previous post in this thread, where I talked about Shaw failed to track runner.
Edit: Quoting from Wan Bissaka thread with clip of this sequence of play (Not complete). This angle made it clearly about Matic, Fred, Lindelof positioning is Okay.
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Why are we all forgetting about Bruno in this goal? Yes the shape of defence was not good but Lindelof is the only one who tries to organise the defence. No one else even open their mouth. He is not brilliant but he is a scapegoat just like Fellaini was.
It's just going to be hilarious when Bailly starts 2 or 3 games next time and everyone realizes Lindelöf is exposed due to systemic issues and it won't matter if VVD replaced him, result would be the same.
Our defensive record with Lindelöf and Maguire was great last year yet nothing but grief for this guy haha.
Constantly exposed 1v1 against pacey wingers will make any defender look bad. AWB is always out of position and we have terrible shape and defensive mid cover.
Until that changes, the CB pair will look poor.
Our defensive record with Lindelöf and Maguire was great last year yet nothing but grief for this guy haha.
Constantly exposed 1v1 against pacey wingers will make any defender look bad. AWB is always out of position and we have terrible shape and defensive mid cover.
Until that changes, the CB pair will look poor.
Brighton 0:3 Man Utd
Not really tested as the level was low but did the job. Glad Bailly and Lindelof got a game together as that might be the reality if Maguire is injured.
Didn't do much wrong today, played things simple.
Bailly gets the nod for the next game for me.
Bailly gets the nod for the next game for me.
Sometimes maybe good...
Some very sloppy moments and looked thoroughly inferior to Bailly against a low quality attack.
Why doesn’t he watch videos of Rio, Vidic and Bailly? Show some balls. Win the ball before the attacker touches it. Why does he make that look so hard? I really don’t understand. He’s let’s them touch it, half asses his pressure and then gets rag dolled every single time. Or he lets them turn and run towards his outside channel as if it’s the smart thing to do - not realizing he’s got Maguire and AWB defending his back post. End the attack before it starts!
Maybe it's his game style. He thinks he is so good at reading the game that he doesn't really need physicality to do stuff. Only if he was half good as Daley Blind in that regard.
It's about personality. Just because you watch some video doesn't mean you can do it. Clearly he's below average physically, so he doesn't fancy his chance.
With Daley Blind, LVG uses man marking tactic as way to defend. Smalling was clearly instructed to follow opposition's forward, even to the opposite side of the pitch, even press toward half way line. Blind only focuses on sweeping. Mourinho changed to zonal defense as main defensive tactic, which we also mostly do now under Ole. SAF used zonal defense too.
Ajax uses similar tactic to get the best out of Blind. Blind was targeted by Poch with Florence sub in that CL semi final game, which turned the game. De Ligt got too busy and got dragged out, which Spurs runners targeted.
So the point is Lindelof has reached his limit in this set up. If you want to get more from him, then it would require tactically tweak. He wouldn't become lite Rio, Vidic even if you doping him.
He had a couple of clumsy moments but was mostly ok.
I think it is clear that in the last two games (both games versus Brighton) Lindelof started chasing that first engagement with the ball a lot more. He cleared the ball into a throw in on multiple occasions, instead of deciding to shield it or direct the opponent in the channel. It is definitely an area that is worked on.
Also, 'clearly he's below average physically' is very untrue. Lindelof gets bullied off the ball because he doesn't enter challenges assertively, not because of his physique. He is quite strong and definitely has the body shape and muscle mass to be a dominating defender. It is a lot more because of his prefered tactic to avoid the hustle and bustle, and try to anticipate events.
Aye.
There were no major errors leading to a goal which is as good as it gets with Lindelof these days, but as you said there were still sloppy moments where he'd make daft mistakes.
He's been absolutely fecking dreadful for the last 10-15 games. He was never a great defender but he's been appalling recently.
Physicality is not just about physique. It's about body strength. Take CP first goal. Schlupp is about the average in term of physical strength in PL, yet shoulder to shoulder Schlupp just cruised into our penalty box when Lindelof trying to assert himself to prevent that.
Similarly Obafemi shielded Lindelof away and equalized for Southampton not long ago. Obafemi is no powerhouse.
I disagree, in both situations it is a lot more about position and momentum of movement. You can't stop someone who is moving in your direction while you are backing away. There is also the risk of penalty if you decide to be physically assertive. The attacker can afford to because it can be only a foul. The risk/reward ratio is completely different.
Maybe Lindelof needs to get hynoptised so he thinks opposing players are thieves.
It seems like that's the only way he actually gets proactive and try to stop them.
It seems like that's the only way he actually gets proactive and try to stop them.
You lose your ground. The race (you as defender not backing, but race facing same direction) was started out of the box, and the initial direction was straight away from the penalty box. You can't hold your ground. Not outmuscle then what?
In Southampton case, you rather concede a penalty giving the GK a chance to secure the victory, than just being outmuscled letting opposition score. It's last kick of the game ffs. Again initially lost your ground leading to be powerless.
All you say is in hindsight. You can't bet on outmuscling the opponent as, again, the risk/reward is not in your favour.
As for the Southampton case, Lindelof can either pull him down or kick him from the back. You can argue about poor positioning to begin with (being behind him) but that has nothing to do with how physical Lindelof is or is not.
You make no sense. When you know you strength, you can bet on it. Only if you're weaker physically, you would doubt about the inability to outmuscle the opponent.
It's only not about pace, but strength in many of instance here to keep your ground.
Dropped. About fecking time.
Seconded. I haven't seen another player do so little yet be a guaranteed starter for us for a long time.
Goes to show you what we're working with in terms of the rest of the squad really. I don't think Lindelof is as absolutely dire as made out, however I hope Bailly can stay fit because he is much better, if he can stay fit and curb the recklessness sometimes I think we should have a great partnership in Bailly and Maguire
Lindelof + 1 rest of the season.
For all his physical limitations, he's our only defender who actually attempts to organise the defence, who talks to the players around him.
That doesn't mean he's a great defender, but he's certainly our best - outside Smalling, at least.
On that note, imagine selling Smalling because he's poor on the ball (which he is tbf) to sign AWB for £50m who's even worse. What's the point? Imagine wanting to play a modern style and signing Maguire who can't play in a high line.
Just comedy decisions.
For all his physical limitations, he's our only defender who actually attempts to organise the defence, who talks to the players around him.
That doesn't mean he's a great defender, but he's certainly our best - outside Smalling, at least.
On that note, imagine selling Smalling because he's poor on the ball (which he is tbf) to sign AWB for £50m who's even worse. What's the point? Imagine wanting to play a modern style and signing Maguire who can't play in a high line.
Just comedy decisions.
We would lose 6-1 with him as well. There is no difference between him and the rest
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Hate it when I’m right but that today is exactly why Lindelof should start. He might back off players but he can defend far better than what was on display.
A player like Lindelöf doesn't make any difference. He'd make other mistakes. We have been as bad with him, see Brighton
Well this went well
He should start for sure. He improves the player next to him more than our other defenders.
For me Lindelöf and Smalling should be our pair under this management.
Under a better manager we might have a manager that improves things so then it is more open what is the best pair.
For me Lindelöf and Smalling should be our pair under this management.
Under a better manager we might have a manager that improves things so then it is more open what is the best pair.
Our best central defender
He is not the answer and would have done feck all today to help.
Smalling is better and only slightly worse on the ball. lindelof doest pass between the lines nor does he score.
Smalling is a solid defender and goal threat. Lindelof is neither.
Smalling is better and only slightly worse on the ball. lindelof doest pass between the lines nor does he score.
Smalling is a solid defender and goal threat. Lindelof is neither.
Perhaps he is not as bad as some make him out to be.
He's also garbage, let's not try to build him up because we had a shit show today. Last weekend with him we could've conceded 8.
He was bad but people were making it out to be once he's off and Bailly in everything will be solved.
People want Hollywood defenders. Its why Bailly gets so much love here despite being slightly above average and barely ever fit. Although i agree he is not the perfect partner for Maguire, i just can't shake the feeling that it's Maguire that needs benching and not him. Whats worse is that we don't have a destroyer like Fernandinho or Ndidi shielding so he always has to step into midfield to stop counters.
Edit.
Also i think people forget Lindelof always starts every season slowly. It has happened every season he has been at Man Utd.
Edit.
Also i think people forget Lindelof always starts every season slowly. It has happened every season he has been at Man Utd.
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Lindelöf is not good enough but Bailly is a joke. The guy has made a career exclusively down to his bravery.
He is, Maguire just matched his terrible individual performance again Palace.
We were bad with Lindelof, we were bad with Maguire and Bailly too.
We were clueless. Even the silver lining of Liverpool's first half performance doesn't help as I transferred Watkins out for DCL in fantasy football
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