People talk about the league not suiting him but Ive not seen him done for pace or out muscled anymore than anyone else. For me its more a concentration and confidence thing. I think the clubs too big for him but in fairness, theres been 'bigger' players that have been affected by that....
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He probably gets bullied the most out of all our defenders - I don't even remember Blind being bullied as much and he's fairly smaller Lindelof.
I agree the club is too big for him as well.
I think putting importance on some traditional aspects of football is sometimes seen to be stone age and new center halves should be judged by how good their rabona is or can they play as a quarter left inside pep reverse offensive defender. The fundamentals are still so important in that position above all else. Dominate your striker and your job is done well. Give me a good reading of the game, pace, courage, strength above passing for a centre half.
People talk about the league not suiting him but Ive not seen him done for pace or out muscled anymore than anyone else. For me its more a concentration and confidence thing. I think the clubs too big for him but in fairness, theres been 'bigger' players th
Not seen it tbh. Not sure theres that many type of forwards either in the league. He fails to react and unlike others here either their physical size or turn of pace gets them out of trouble. Not the same as being done for pace though. I think with all our defenders, there isnt a natural partner that covers the others inadequacies. Lindeof needs a leader next to him that can keep him focused and in position....that said, could say the same about lots of players here. We always seem to be looking for a player to help one thats already here...
Not seen it tbh. Not sure theres that many type of forwards either in the league. He fails to react and unlike others here either their physical size or turn of pace gets them out of trouble. Not the same as being done for pace though. I think with all our defenders, there isnt a natural partner that covers the others inadequacies. Lindeof needs a leader next to him that can keep him focused and in position....that said, could say the same about lots of players here. We always seem to be looking for a player to help one thats already here...
There is a lot of talk about this bullying nowadays. Luckily it does not seem to be very efficient way of attacking in terms if goals.
No, not really. Never heard it before.
How can you say that? He was part of defence that literally folded up and ceased to function in the 2nd half. Turkey battered them after the break. The team lacked any form of backbone due to the absence of Granqvist and sorry but Lindelöf hadsn't got any of that.
The Swedish papers I saw had Lindelöf as the best of the defenders and one of the best in the team who where winning in the 88th minute. 3 out of 5 in Fotbollsavisen, which equates to about 6-7 out of 10 here (No player got more). Says he had a good match, whereas Jansson, Olson, Lustig and the substitutes get alot of criticism.
If Lindelof plays this weekend v Deeney, I can guarantee you he will set out to bully him.
I expect him to be much better this season with consistent run of games, though i agree that he has to earn himself consistent spot with his performances in training just like Shaw did since preseason. All our players perform much better in their international teams that's a fact and not particularly related to league levels only. Our Man to Man style in the defensive structure is also a big reason for that which requires elite level players to pull off successfully and we don't have many elite level players including Pogba who in don't consider in elite bracket as well. Our defense was not much protected vs Brighton where without Matic we lacked the ability to control the play and all our defenders including him suffers man to man against pace, flair and Physicality. If we defend and attack as a collective unit, players like Lindelof will surely come in handy and can improve as well. Physically he has to develop more and play more aggressively which jose will surely be telling him, but until he plays some run of games I'll hold back my true opinion on him.
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Via , crosses, and if we still let the crosses come in its the full backs job which he is also failing at.
No, just pure physical bullying even in open play.
Most likely, as that is his job to do.
I have followed Ibrahimovic his whole career and seen him shove off defenders like flies. Big guys. Still people rarely talked about bullying in that sense you do here and now. It’s a natural part of physical football. If a defender lose one or two duels because the attacker is stronger, he is now bullied.
Being strong like Ibrahimovic and Lukaku is one way to play, being fast and technical and make big defenders like Boateng fall on their arse is another way.
Anyway, my point is that all this bullying of Lindelof hasn’t really led to that many goals conceded. To my knowledge, zero so far, after 3.5 PL matches this season.
Unpopular opinion but I rate him more than Bailly and understand why he's ahead of Eric. Doesn't say much about Victor but think Bailly escapes criticism cause he's more robust and physical.
I see he used to have a shaved head, he needs to bring that back so he can look hard and not get bullied.
Same here. Jury’s out on the pair of them and they could still both develop into excellent CBs, despite their current flaws, but I’m more hopeful about Lindelof than I am about Bailly.
It’s incredible that we scoured the entire transfer market and managed to pick up a CB worse than all our other options. I mean, the bar is set so low for Lindelof that a game where he doesn’t make any huge mistakes is considered a good game for him.
Well that's his way of playing against everyone, he did fine against him and Richardlison last year, that's the kind of play he needs to adapt to, lets see how he grows further here in his second season. Also if we know that will be their game plan, Mourinho will just stick Fellani in the middle as well like against burnley to counter that threat and not expose him one on one.
Both are still young, just 24. I'm hopeful that at least one of them will add maturity to their game.
Yes that shaved head worked like a peach for Phillipe Senderos at Arsenal innit?
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This. Of Lindelof manages to hide from the ball for 90 minutes it will be considered a good game for him.
I mean, a) crosses can come in from anywhere and b) its near impossible and unrealistic to expect full-backs to stop all crosses from coming in.
He’s solid and will be class for us. Just wait and see.
There's been some good defenders up for grabs like Maguire and Davinson Sanchez the last couple of years so it's strange Jose hasn't sorted this out yet. Lindelof will definitely come good but might not be for another couple of seasons. Central defence is probably hardest position for a young CB to hit the ground running from the start as Gerard Piqué, John Stones, Varane etc have shown
I was convinced we would sign one of him or De Ligt after that EL final.
There is just no way I would choose Lindelöf before Bailly. How can anyone justify that?
At least Tottenham are profiting from scouting players who do well against us.
I am not sure he has been chosen before Bailly, but tbh Bailly has not shown his best since his injury last season. He has made many costly mistakes.
I wouldn’t consider this a post as much as a gulp of acid reflux. You can do so much better.
After a first season where the only debate here was wether this 23 year old was just bad or wether he was bad to okay and possibly could improve in the future, based on having been good in Portugal and Sweden U21, four months have passed without anything but this has happening:
He played five games in the WC being rated by most neutrals as one of the best players in an overachieving Sweden.
1st game: ok but shaky
2nd: good
3rd: very good
4th: good or very good
5th: fairly good
He played a couple of inconsquential training matches in preseason.
He played three and a quarter league games for United were most looking closely at the time seemed to rate him as
1st good or very good
2nd bad or very bad
1/4 (v Spurs) as bad as the rest
3rd good if a bit shaky (I saw that game twice and upon second watch raised my assesment from ok to good+).
And a game for Sweden were he was rated as fairly good, one of the better in a game with a good and a bad half.
Is this description very hyperbolic to you? Because what I read in this thread are a few posts these last months commenting on his actual games, (the most positive expressing some kind of hope that he may grow to become a starter or squad player in time, the most negative doubt that his weaknesses may be to big or strengths too small for this to happen), drowned in a whole host of posts wanting to ‘chip in’ with the valuable view that they saw him last year and he is shit, period, and that the people with more nuanced views are fooling themselves, blind, or Swedish.
It contributes so little, and makes sound bytes more important than actual performances.
I take issue with your one post, but mostly with there being so many of that kind from different posters.
He looks like he plays without confidence, while Bailly seems overconfident. Both make mistakes because there's no middle ground in approaching situations on the field, former will question himself therefore won't react on time, while latter will be sure that he has enough time to react only to find out he hasn't.
As we targeted Sanchez as a weakness, I'd have been amazed if we'd have gone near him...
Only on the ball... but even then, he was still incredibly impressive in that game, and considering his age and his potential to improve, it would have made total sense to me.
I mean look at him now, he's no worse on the ball then any of our CB's (though admittedly that's a fairly low bar)
Nah he really wasn't.
He was incredibly lucky not to be sent off, and looked - somehow - like a rawer version of Bailly who relied on his recovery pace to bail him out.
You could see the potential, but he got away with it in that game.
Fair enough, though not how I remember it. Guardian had him as there best Ajax player on the night too... though obviously player ratings can be taken with a pinch of salt.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...e-final-ajax-manchester-united-player-ratings
If you look back through his player thread from the match you'll see a mixed response. He definitely cleaned out Pogba and didn't get the ball when Rashford (I think) was clean through on goal.
I largely think that game is an example of what I'm going to call the 'Bailly effect' which is when a blood and thunder style defender who plays on the edge doesn't commit an error (or gets away without being punished when they do) they look quite impressive, but don't really give you the confidence or stability you want.
Yes. De Ligt was the contrary, not as pacey and fancy tackles, but better positioning, reading of the game and calmness. He will also be the better CB in the future than Sanchez. He probably is already now
Bailly's had games where he's looked capable of going on to be a very good defender and had actual man of the match performances, I've yet to see that from Lindelof who I often find myself reaching for reasons why he did well in certain matches. Bailly is more highly rated by United fans, and rightly so, because he's had plenty of times where he's looked the part even with his inconsistencies. I also don't think it's fair to say Bailly really escapes criticism either, I've been very critical of his raw/rash nature in his thread before and haven't been alone.
He celebrated his 19th birthday last month. I think his agent is Raiola, or at least there was some talk about it. I think if he wins the league with Ajax as a captain, he will go next summer.
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