As the saying goes " You're only as strong as your weakest link" and to compound matters we have more than one that isn't comfortable on the ball (by elite (champions league) standards anyway).
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 40
- Clean sheets
- 8
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 3
- Status
As the saying goes " You're only as strong as your weakest link" and to compound matters we have more than one that isn't comfortable on the ball (by elite (champions league) standards anyway).
Other way around
Jones makes our most passes from CB yet Lindelof makes our most passes back to the keeper. Jones also tries longer passes more often
Still, Lindelof played in the big matches more often and defended better than Jones overall
Other way around
Jones makes our most passes from CB yet Lindelof makes our most passes back to the keeper. Jones also tries longer passes more often
Still, Lindelof played in the big matches more often and defended better than Jones overall
I just don't get the narrative of Lindelof being good on the ball. Jones is average but Vic is less than average save for a couple of long through balls this season.
Its because he's a bit better technically than Jones and Smalling. He looks neater doing things so people want to believe that he's better at it overall and make stuff up in their minds to justify it.
Jones on average plays more progressive passes, finds more forward passes, plays more passes overall, spreads the play better etc. He just doesn't look as neat doing it.
I’m not sure. If someone who is better with stats can provide comparison with other CBs, it would be handy to paint a better picture.
I have no idea how this guy is seen as anyway a highlight of the season. I like him well enough, but I don't think he's a massive upgrade on Jones or Smalling.
He isn't. People are judging by expectations, and in his case he is much better than the season before. He's still a pretty average defender, a classic Everton CB.
Its also due to teams forcing us to play out from Jones/Smalling. Remember in one of our last games of the season when Smalling made a rather progressive forward run with ball? It was so clear that the players on the other team were told that they should not worry about him. I think he moved undisturbed all the way to their box.
It is similar to what we did against Ajax when we forced them to play out from Sanchez rather than de Ligt. It must be such a comfort for team playing against us to know that they dont need to worry about players like Smalling and Jones causing them any threath when they are on the ball.
If you look at the figures from last year, Lindelof was probably more progressive in his passing (they were less aware of him). He will be again if we get a new CB this summer that is better on the ball and play on the left.
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Other way around
Jones makes our most passes from CB yet Lindelof makes our most passes back to the keeper. Jones also tries longer passes more often
Still, Lindelof played in the big matches more often and defended better than Jones overall
Look at the number of games played on your data. It says 9 for Jones and 20 for Lindelof. In reality Jones started 15 games in the PL with 3 sub appearances, while Lindelof started 28 with one sub. Mins played is also miles out. Jones 1261 mins according to Transfermarkt. How do you even get to 778 mins for Jones ? At no stage of the season has he played 778 mins. The closest is 786 mins after the Burnley home game.
If you look at the PL matches that Jones started, it really isn't that difficult to come up with a sample of 9 relatively easy matches in which he could put together decent stats while hiding his weaknesses. Out of his 15 PL starts, only 2 came against teams in the top 6, both against Spurs.
I would until Squawka gets its act together before drawing too many conclusions on their data. I tried using it last month or possibly back in March and gave up because it was producing complete nonsense, couldn't even get the right number of goals and assists for players in the PL.
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I dont even know what that means, tackles per 30 possessions. Official stats show that Lindelof has 1.3 tackles per PL match and Koulibaly 1.8 tackles per Serie A match. One tackle more per 180 minutes. Think the difference is too small to make big conclusions. But yes, Lindof doesn't depend much on tackles but more on positioning and following his man. It can be seen as passive, or proactive.
He really benefits from how terrible he looked initially and the lack of patience fans have with our other CB options because there's absolutely nothing about him that stands out. Still, he has improved and is generally competent I suppose.
Its per 90 mins, the only fair way to compare them. But you're right it seems like they dont have the updated numbers or something is weird with their "matches played" stat
Whoscored can still tell us that Jones plays more passes though
Its per 90 mins, the only fair way to compare them. But you're right it seems like they dont have the updated numbers or something is weird with their "matches played" stat
Whoscored can still tell us that Jones plays more passes though
I like data but in this instance I'm going to stand by my original conclusion: Lindelof has the skill-set for building attacks but doesn't take responsibility often enough. Phil Jones has the occasional match when he appears confident in possession but too often he looks a nervous wreck. I think Jones has played a somewhat untypical set of fixtures this season which makes any comparison problematic.
I do think almost all our players pass the ball back to De Gea more often than they should, given his distribution hasn't been good for several years.
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Completely fair. Jones tends to have his good games against weaker teams and pads stats, but then in the big matches are where he makes the mistakes more often
I'm not sure how it is defined, I take it as tackles per opposition's possessions, but the contrast was large and it was more a question for someone who has better insight from that stats data. I think that following his man style defending is a bit useless. Even that 1.3 vs 1.8 contrast it's not that small when you consider what amount is compared. Anyways that data backed up my opinion and I used it somehow to see other opinion in this.
Don't get me wrong, I agree to a large extent in your analysis. He does not depend on physical play, and to some extent that is an area of improvement, but to some extent it is also a strength. He is very clean, look how few fouls he commit. A tackle is sometimes repairing a mistake.
As comparison, Virgil van Dijk has 1 tackle per game according to whoscored.
If I'm not reading it wrong, both are defensively awful. Defensive Duels won only 1 out of 4 (~25%), and only won like half of their aerial duel?
Good passing stats though.
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25% is low you are right. Passing is irrelevant in my opinion if the CB is not good enough where he should be, in defending.
1 successful tackle? So that’s less than Victor? Do you have the data of how many do they attempt/complete? It would be a good indicator of this clean play you were pointing out.
I might be reading the stats wrong, but many well known CBs have lower number than Lindelöf. Stones, Kompany, Maguire , VvD for example . I don't think those stats alone can tell if someone plays cleanly or not but Lindelof definitely plays very clean football. Few yellow cards and few fouls. I dont say it is good or bad, just a fact.
Didn't find stats for attempts to tackle.
Edit: found some stats. Lindelof gets dribbled past 0.4 times per match and Koulibaly 0.5 times per match. Dribbled past+ successful tackles are total amount of attempts
to tackle.
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Koulibaly vs. Lindelof is a skewed stats comparison to begin with considering they're not only playing in entirely different teams where Napoli has had a considerably better season than United, but also that these teams play in entirely different leagues.
Now I'm not against the contention that Koulibaly might be a better defender than Lindelof, but this kind of comparison makes a poor argument since it doesn't consider the facts I just mentioned. Better to at least compare him with other defenders in the Premier League, rather than a standout defender in some other league.
This being said, I'm not sure what the point of this argument is. Of course there'll be plenty of other defenders in other teams with better stats than ours - we've conceded 54 goals! Why is what's interesting, and you won't find the answer to that by looking at stats like these.
Now I'm not against the contention that Koulibaly might be a better defender than Lindelof, but this kind of comparison makes a poor argument since it doesn't consider the facts I just mentioned. Better to at least compare him with other defenders in the Premier League, rather than a standout defender in some other league.
This being said, I'm not sure what the point of this argument is. Of course there'll be plenty of other defenders in other teams with better stats than ours - we've conceded 54 goals! Why is what's interesting, and you won't find the answer to that by looking at stats like these.
Still injured för at least another month according to Swedish newspapers. Missing upcoming internationals. Hope it's nothing major that will chase him through the season.
https://www.dn.se/sport/fotboll/nilsson-lindelof-missar-em-kvalmatcher/
https://www.dn.se/sport/fotboll/nilsson-lindelof-missar-em-kvalmatcher/
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Ole doesn't rate Lindelof?
Lindelof and De Ligt 
Imagine Lindelof together with Jaap in the heart of the defense. Magic
Regarding his passing, isn't he naturally right footed but often plays at LCB for us? Just wondering if that changes things. LVG was pretty adamant that it's good to have a left footed centre back playing as a LCB if you want to play out from the back but i'm sure there's a million examples to the contrary.
It is in general much more difficult to use your right foot when you play to the left as you need to open up your body towards the centre of the pitch instead of the side. The centrebacks more often move forward and towards the sides than to the centre. That is at least how I see the problem.
I can imagine if he was asked about Beckham and Yorke/Cole he would have said the same, and we all know how highly he rates Jesse and Rashford.
I’m of the impression that fans in the UK don’t believe that this matter, but most continental coaches do. Pep Guardiola favours a left footed central defender at LCB. And Mourinho too commented that Lindelof is more comfortable at RCB.
If you want to play out from the back, it matters.
Yep and it makes complete sense. It's the simple things like that that actually make the biggest differences when you talk about a 'ball playing defender'
For me it's the same with the forwards too. A left footed one on the right (Greenwood/Lukaku) and a right footed one on the left (Rashford/Martial).
Angles when recieving the ball, the ability to take on one player before taking a shot from the longest foot etc is all very important.
It's probably because just a few years ago, there was very little pressure on the CB when he had the ball and very easy for him to make the passes no matter what side. But now there is intense pressure and the CBs often need to protect the ball.
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