[Mickfoley]

He's the center back version of Darmian.

 

[gza the genius]

I thought he was fine yesterday. Burnley played two big strikers to try to trouble us in the air and Lindelof didn't really have any problems. Hopefully him and Smalling get a run together now, we need to pick a pairing and stick with it.

 

[MadMike]

The guy has been so poor for United that every performance in which he doesn’t make a huge blunder is hailed as very good or great.

The irony in this statement is of course that for defenders (unlike strikers) a good game is one where they quitely go about their work and you barely notice them.

So yeah, he was good. It's just people are set in their views and are not even willing to acknowledge a good performance when a player puts one in. I'm also not convinced Lindelof is good enough for us yet. But using that opinion to bash every performance irrespective of how he actually did on the day is a rather bizarre thing to do.

 

[simmee]

Nope, I mean right at the end, after someone (Vokes?) gave Smalling a small shove in the back to win the header and De Gea made the save. Cross came back in and Lindelof was just standing around doing nothing at all.

He looks up and Shaw looks like he is covering that guy so he turns his head and covers number 10 and a cross to the near post. It’s around 2 seconds from Shaw looking like he has him covered until the cross comes in. Laughable trying to make that out to be a huge mistake.

 

[Zoo]

Was that Vokes that missed that free header while he didn't even challenge?

The few times he had to actually defend, he looked like a boy against men, a CB that reeks of insecurity and pretty much any semi decent PL striker will have his scalp.

If you mean the one at the end then that was difficult to react to imo. Maybe De Gea could have done a bit more to push it out when making the initial save.

 

[Kostov]

If you mean the one at the end then that was difficult to react to imo. Maybe De Gea could have done a bit more to push it out when making the initial save.

I would like to see a video of the situation, I felt it was on him. Can someone provide a gif or something?

 

[Esquire]

I think he means the 91st minute and the header by Vydra after that phase of play when De Gea had to save from Vokes as well. I don't really think he's to blame for that either though, after watching it again.

He was marking the central space and the cross was quite short on the near post, where Vydra was much better positioned to win it. He couldn't leave the central area unmarked and go walkabouts either.

I just think some people struggle with the concept that if the opposition have some strong/tall players and they put some decent crosses in the box from open play, they're bound to win some headers. The defenders ain't flawless, but the strikers ain't muppets either. And it doesn't really even require a defensive mistake for them to be well positioned and win some headers. I see it on the matchday thread, everytime an opposition striker wins a header people acting like it's a major mistake from the denfender and what not. Over the top. I wonder if opposition fans lose their shit in similar fashion, every time Fellaini or Lukaku win a header in their box or something.

De Gea was unworked until the 82nd minute and only after we went down to 10 while also leading. Some credit has to go to the defence for that, although the midfield also deserve praise while we have to acknowledge that Burnley were not the best either. It's combination of things, football ain't binary.

He was okay yesterday. Still have hopes in him because we sorely need a ball playing CB and he’s got the right instincts. The thing he needs to do (maybe World Cup took away the opportunity) is that he should hit the gym hard and gain about 10 pounds of muscle and get way stronger. Once he gets that physicality he will be much better. Right now he is just getting outmuscled.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

The guy has been so poor for United that every performance in which he doesn’t make a huge blunder is hailed as very good or great.

Exactly.
A good performance from Victor is one where he doesn't make a gigantic blunder or gift them a goal. Which is not a good performance, its a bare minimum performance.

 

[MadMike]

He was okay yesterday. Still have hopes in him because we sorely need a ball playing CB and he’s got the right instincts. The thing he needs to do (maybe World Cup took away the opportunity) is that he should hit the gym hard and gain about 10 pounds of muscle and get way stronger. Once he gets that physicality he will be much better. Right now he is just getting outmuscled.

Agree for the most parts.

 

[11101]

I would like to see a video of the situation, I felt it was on him. Can someone provide a gif or something?

Vokes dropped off Shaw who didn't react, and Lindelof and Matic both stood and watched. A CB shouldn't really stray from the central area in a corner/free kick situation like that so its probably a bit more on Matic, but in the absence of him doing anything Lindelof should have reacted as Vokes was pretty clearly a danger there.

I think they had all switched off a bit being 2-0 up in the 91st minute.

 

[Kostov]

Vokes dropped off Shaw who didn't react, and Lindelof and Matic both stood and watched. A CB shouldn't really stray from the central area in a corner/free kick situation like that so its probably a bit more on Matic, but in the absence of him doing anything Lindelof should have reacted as Vokes was pretty clearly a danger there.

I think they had all switched off a bit being 2-0 up in the 91st minute.

I would like to rewatch it again, but I felt he was still very shaky and insecure. I've missed large part of the first half, so not sure how he was than.

 

[Ekeke]

He was okay other than when Fellaini or Smalling werent around to deal with high balls. He lost out when it was up to him to win a header.

 

[Grande]

He was okay other than when Fellaini or Smalling werent around to deal with high balls. He lost out when it was up to him to win a header.

No, he played well enough against Burnley. Smalling actually was more exposed than him. (Ironically, Smalling had the best ball-playing moment of the two). So far this season, I’d give him about a 7 against Leicester, 5,5 against Brighton and a 6,5 against Burnley. I think his focus should be to get the basic things right and develop secure partnerships with Smalling and Bailly. If he’s not much more than ok now, I don’t mind, as he clearly can get alot better with confidence, experience and physical development.

 

[Rozay]

I have to admit, he proved me wrong very fast. Before the start of the season I thought he deserves a bit of time and he might turn it around this season, now I'm dreading the thought of him playing, we were fortunate yesterday that he didn't cost us a goal. I wouldn't mind if we get rid as soon as January.

Agree with all of that, except I had wanted him gone in the summer. Any desire in the summer to persist with him would have just been football fan rhetoric and cliché in my opinion. ‘Too early to judge’, ‘need to see him for a bit longer’, ‘new country’ etc. It’s almost impossible for a player to actually be not good enough until he’s hung around being not good enough for years to some.

I appreciate the idea of patience, but only when there are the right signs that you have what it takes. For me, Lindelöf showed no such level last season, everything indicates it was a mistake to sign him, in which case it should be corrected as soon as possible.

 

[Kostov]

Agree with all of that, except I had wanted him gone in the summer. Any desire in the summer to persist with him would have just been football fan rhetoric and cliché in my opinion. ‘Too early to judge’, ‘need to see him for a bit longer’, ‘new country’ etc. It’s almost impossible for a player to actually be not good enough until he’s hung around being not good enough for years to some.

I appreciate the idea of patience, but only when there are the right signs that you have what it takes. For me, Lindelöf showed no such level last season, everything indicates it was a mistake to sign him, in which case it should be corrected as soon as possible.

Sadly but you are right. I feel there are too much negatives with him, when I look at Bailly there are clearly signs in which he is good and in what things he isn't. When I watch Lindelof I fail to think of a quality that stands out in him.

 

[Lentwood]

Even though he played OK yesterday you always feel that he is a weak link and is targeted by the opposition. His aerial ability is nowhere near the standard required in the PL and looks vulnerable against big centre forwards

 

[simplyared]

He's getting some stick on here and quite rightly so. Not the lad's fault though he's out of his depth. Said it from the beginning, never understood why we got him tbh.

 

[Nick7]

I thought he was fine overall. I'd be happy to have him hanging around the squad until the summer. If he doesn't show marked improvements until then, ship him out.

 

[haram]

I have to admit, he proved me wrong very fast. Before the start of the season I thought he deserves a bit of time and he might turn it around this season, now I'm dreading the thought of him playing, we were fortunate yesterday that he didn't cost us a goal. I wouldn't mind if we get rid as soon as January.

At what point did he look like he would cost us yesterday?...

 

[A-man]

Agree with all of that, except I had wanted him gone in the summer. Any desire in the summer to persist with him would have just been football fan rhetoric and cliché in my opinion. ‘Too early to judge’, ‘need to see him for a bit longer’, ‘new country’ etc. It’s almost impossible for a player to actually be not good enough until he’s hung around being not good enough for years to some.
.

I’m curious who you and other anti Lindelof lobby would like to play instead? Jones, Rojo and Bailly are full of mistakes and poor decisions, often more costly than this “almost a goal chance at 91st minute”. Then add all the injuries. Of the ones available, which CB pair would you go for? I’m seriously interested to hear this.

 

[USREDEVIL]

He's still very poor but luckily Burnley were absolute garbage. You could have put a chair in place of lindelof and it would have stayed at 2-0

 

[andyjgt1]

I’m curious who you and other anti Lindelof lobby would like to play instead? Jones, Rojo and Bailly are full of mistakes and poor decisions, often more costly than this “almost a goal chance at 91st minute”. Then add all the injuries. Of the ones available, which CB pair would you go for? I’m seriously interested to hear this.

Never have bought Lindelof in the first place and not loaned out Tuanzebe and TFM, playing the former alongside Smalling, with Bailly and either Jones or Rojo (selling the other) rotating with him (Smalling the main starter unless a world class CB was brought in) and the latter at RB rotating with Valencia (Darmian sold) with a few games at DM to rest Matic.

 

[haram]

Never have bought Lindelof in the first place and not loaned out Tuanzebe and TFM, playing the former alongside Smalling, with Bailly and either Jones or Rojo (selling the other) rotating with him (Smalling the main starter unless a world class CB was brought in) and the latter at RB rotating with Valencia (Darmian sold) with a few games at DM to rest Matic.

You support Man City saying you would use Tuanzebe and TFM instead?...

These players are not ready yet.

 

[Rozay]

I’m curious who you and other anti Lindelof lobby would like to play instead? Jones, Rojo and Bailly are full of mistakes and poor decisions, often more costly than this “almost a goal chance at 91st minute”. Then add all the injuries. Of the ones available, which CB pair would you go for? I’m seriously interested to hear this.

Well you shouldn’t be. What you have done is created a new argument, one that I didn’t sign up to. The fact that I think Lindelöf is rubbish and should be sold simply means I don’t want him at United. That does not in turn mean that I rate Marcos Rojo or Phil Jones as top defenders. Me thinking Lindelöf is rubbish has nothing to do with any defender other than Lindelöf.

That said, in picking any preferable pairing, it will be one that doesn’t include Lindelöf, simply because he has, in my opinion, shown himself to be the worst one that we have. How good or reliable the others are just creates a discussion of whether we need to buy, not whether Lindelöf should play. He shouldn’t.

 

[A-man]

Never have bought Lindelof in the first place and not loaned out Tuanzebe and TFM, playing the former alongside Smalling, with Bailly and either Jones or Rojo (selling the other) rotating with him (Smalling the main starter unless a world class CB was brought in) and the latter at RB rotating with Valencia (Darmian sold) with a few games at DM to rest Matic.

Smalling and Tuanzebe, thanks for your answer. Personally I am not sure they would be any better for example Smalling and Lindelof/Bailly. I must honestly say I have seen way too little of Tuanzebe to conclude whether he is a United starter CB or not. I think Smalling and Lindelof made a good cb pair second half of last season.

 

[A-man]

Well you shouldn’t be. What you have done is created a new argument, one that I didn’t sign up to. The fact that I think Lindelöf is rubbish and should be sold simply means I don’t want him at United. That does not in turn mean that I rate Marcos Rojo or Phil Jones as top defenders. Me thinking Lindelöf is rubbish has nothing to do with any defender other than Lindelöf.

That said, in picking any preferable pairing, it will be one that doesn’t include Lindelöf, simply because he has, in my opinion, shown himself to be the worst one that we have. How good or reliable the others are just creates a discussion of whether we need to buy, not whether Lindelöf should play. He shouldn’t.

I just asked a simple question. You have five CBs:Who of these five would you pick? Of course you don’t have to answer.

If they are all poor or not is another question. They were all part of the defence which conceded 0.74 goals per PL match last season, and imo not as bad as some here seem to think.

 

[ROFLUTION]

At what point did he look like he would cost us yesterday?...

On top of my head: A player (Vokes?) easily out-jumped him near the end, but De Gea saved it. Classic Lindelöf.

 

[Kostov]

At what point did he look like he would cost us yesterday?...

I already pointed out in another comment. It was a header he should have at least contested, but someone said it wasn’t on him. If someone could provide a video/gif it would be helpful.

 

[Acquire Me]

His a young lad. I think he will be great for us.

Its easy to forget that his young and learning.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

His a young lad. I think he will be great for us.

Its easy to forget that his young and learning.

He's 24.

 

[andyjgt1]

You support Man City saying you would use Tuanzebe and TFM instead?...

These players are not ready yet.

I'm not totally sure about Tuanzebe (though I'd say he can't be less ready than 20-year-old Butt and G Nev were and certainly not 18-year-old P Nev and the physical shambles that was the 20-year-old Scholes), but TFM certainly is, and Mourinho should really have continued his development that was going well under LVG, giving him rotational starts at RB and maybe even DM.

 

[Acquire Me]

He's 24.

Still young.

 

[Rozay]

I just asked a simple question. You have five CBs:Who of these five would you pick? Of course you don’t have to answer.

If they are all poor or not is another question. They were all part of the defence which conceded 0.74 goals per PL match last season, and imo not as bad as some here seem to think.

Okay.

Smalling + Rojo/Bailly/Jones>Lindelöf would be my answer. Smalling plays with whoever of the three, they could be drawn from a hat for all I care.

I don’t think the entire defence is bad, that was never my point. I think Lindelof is bad, and I feel there is a fair amount of evidence to vindicate such a view.

 

[Mcking]

He's not physical strong and obviously stuggles against physical strikers who clearly target him.
What I like about him is how cool he is and how he holds up the strikers though and prevent them from getting away or turning him and that gives our players time to return.
Our other CBs in those situations commit and at times gets turned or concede a stupid foul.
I think we should keep the partnership with Smalling. Both are usually fit and compliments each other very well. I like him.

 

[Herald]

He was decent today. He seems a player that uses his technical ability, game reading and body movement to defend rather than brute force, which makes it a bit difficult for him in the PL unfortunately. There always going to the Burnleys and the Stokes of the world who will foul you all day long.

People build ideas on first impresion, they are lazy to think. Nothing new. So basicly yes, he played alright.

 

[Rozay]

People build ideas on first impresion, they are lazy to think. Nothing new. So basicly yes, he played alright.

I think people, at least posters, are the opposite. There is a constant making of excuses for a player, especially a new one. You wouldn’t dare make an early conclusion on a player on here, every player must apparently be watched for two years first. There is always a reason why someone isn’t up to par. Just came back from injury, played in a different position, new country, new language, wrong system. It goes on and on, until they are sold, and then those same defenders don’t bat an eyelid anymore, seeing as they are not their problem anymore.

See how Danny Welbeck gets spoken about on here, whereas when he wore our red, he was so much better, or there was at least mitigation as to why he wasn’t.

Other team’s players are not afforded the same understanding. We are far quicker to say player x isn’t good enough. His team’s tactics, language barrier etc never matters for non- United players. Judging Lindelöf by the same standards would lead to a unanimous verdict that he is not good enough, I suspect. However, the caf are quicker to say players as good as David Luiz or John Stones are not good enough, whereas there’s an excuse for Lindelöf.

Having seen so many players in football not live up to expectations over the years, my view has become simple. If a player is a great player; they would be a great player. And if they are not a great player, it’s because they aren’t a great player. Other than serious injury, all the mitigation is for the birds.

 

[HailtotheKing]

Here's Scholes on Vidic and Evra when they first signed. A lot of what is leveled at Lindelhof and Bailly applies. It's ironic really, we cane Jose for wanting to sign readymade players, then when he buys ones to develop we have no patience and want them chucked out.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...-out-of-their-depth-now-they-are-9966602.html

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Here's Scholes on Vidic and Evra when they first signed. A lot of what is leveled at Lindelhof and Bailly applies. It's ironic really, we cane Jose for wanting to sign readymade players, then when he buys ones to develop we have no patience and want them chucked out.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...-out-of-their-depth-now-they-are-9966602.html

I agree to a point, in that players can improve immeasurably and take time to settle. Vidic and Evra adjusted reasonably quick, however. As Scholes says, they were battered for their first few weeks. With Evra in particular, the terrible start has been inflated due to him getting completely battered in a derby on his debut

 

[Eugenius]

Here's Scholes on Vidic and Evra when they first signed. A lot of what is leveled at Lindelhof and Bailly applies. It's ironic really, we cane Jose for wanting to sign readymade players, then when he buys ones to develop we have no patience and want them chucked out.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...-out-of-their-depth-now-they-are-9966602.html

What people fail to remember with Vidic in particular was that he basically joined having not played for two months because of the Russian season.

Evra and Vidic are two of the biggest characters to ever play for us. Lindelof is a shrinking violet. It’s not that he’s not physically good enough but he’s not assertive nor is he really any good at spotting danger or covering teammates.

 

[Grande]

I agree to a point, in that players can improve immeasurably and take time to settle. Vidic and Evra adjusted reasonably quick, however. As Scholes says, they were battered for their first few weeks. With Evra in particular, the terrible start has been inflated due to him getting completely battered in a derby on his debut

To an extent, yes. Evra and Vidic were also alot closer to finished product when they came. They were also cogs in a machinery were Rio and Ed were in place, Brown provided continuity, Evra had Heinze as cover. Also, we’re talking about two of the most succesful United players ever in their positions. That’s setting the bar high for Lindelöf and Bailly.

On another note: Just seen the first half again. Lindelöf actually playes alot better than I remembered. Impeccable, with one small exception, unlike Shaw who has a lot of small mistakes that half. Valencia and Smalling also has more. A 7 half, maybe 7.5.