Victor Gyökeres

Raoul said:
First, its not true. The thread has always been bumped on a fairly regular basis. Second, what's your point ? Its clear we need a striker and so why wouldn't we discuss an inform striker in the transfer forum
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My point is this place tends to react with a new flavour of the week all the time. His thread was barely active until Amorim was appointed, and the initial posts were a mixed a bag although he already had a great season.

People are now praising Khvara from Napoli because some links popped up, and although he’s a lovely player to watch he has been average to good since last season.

Gyokeres is a very good striker but he’s not the messiah and people need to stop thinking one man alone will solve all our problems
 
Zed is not dead said:
My point is this place tends to react with a new flavour of the week all the time.

People are now praising Khvara from Napoli who has been average to good since last season.

Gyokeres is a very good striker but he’s not the messiah and people need to stop thinking one man alone will solve all our problems
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I'm sure one player alone won't suddenly win us the league, but given that we don't have viable goal scoring strikers right now, getting Gyokeres would solve most of our problems and take a lot of pressure off Amorim. Ultimately, its about scoring more goals than the opposition, which is what eventually sank Ten Hag.
 
Raoul said:
I'm sure one player alone won't suddenly win us the league, but given that we don't have viable goal scoring strikers right now, getting Gyokeres would solve most of our problems and take a lot of pressure off Amorim. Ultimately, its about scoring more goals than the opposition, which is what eventually sank Ten Hag.
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It’s about creating first and having a cohesive unit able to put the 9 in good positions.

Even Haaland who’s a freak finisher is always on the receiving end of at least a couple of chances per game.

What’s Evan Ferguson up to these days? Or Sesko? These were the players this place was adamant were worth throwing money at to solve our goalscoring issues.
Why aren’t their threads bumped anymore?

Because here players are judged on form rather than actual ability and how they would fit into the team.

Again it’s not a dig at Gyokeres who seems a very competent striker, rather at how this place goes from one savior to the other
 
Zed is not dead said:
It’s about creating first and having a cohesive unit able to put the 9 in good positions.

Even Haaland who’s a freak finisher is always on the receiving end of at least a couple of chances per game.

What’s Evan Ferguson up to these days? Or Sesko? These were the players this place was adamant were worth throwing money at to solve our goalscoring issues.
Why aren’t their threads bumped anymore?

Because here players are judged on form rather than actual ability and how they would fit into the team.

Again it’s not a dig at Gyokeres who seems a very competent striker, rather at how this place goes from one savior to the other
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We are creating chances. Just look at today, we created nearly as many as Liverpool at Anfield. We just don't have the level of quality needed at the striker position to put the chances away, and are instead having to rely on the likes of Martinez, Amad, and Maguire to keep us afloat. That should never be the case if we have a top quality striker capable of dealing with the same chances the above three were afforded today.
 
Zed is not dead said:
My point is this place tends to react with a new flavour of the week all the time. His thread was barely active until Amorim was appointed, and the initial posts were a mixed a bag although he already had a great season.

People are now praising Khvara from Napoli because some links popped up, and although he’s a lovely player to watch he has been average to good since last season.

Gyokeres is a very good striker but he’s not the messiah and people need to stop thinking one man alone will solve all our problems
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Wrong, it was one of the most active threads about a player not from united already before we signed Amorim.
 
Giggsyking said:
Wrong, it was one of the most active threads about a player not from united already before we signed Amorim.
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Old thread fuelled mainly by you though

Again my point was not a dig at Gyokeres. But again I hadn’t seen any post on him by the all knowing scouts of the Caf before the last part of last season.

Anyways, I dont want to derail this thread. Good striker, but I have absolutely no way to confirm he’ll be a top or a flop.

Taremi is barely having minutes in Italy, Goncalo Ramos is still a mixed bag at PSG, Darwin Nunez blows hot and cold and is far from his numbers in Portugal, while playing for a team that plays attacking football.
 
Zed is not dead said:
Old thread fuelled mainly by you though

Again my point was not a dig at Gyokeres. But again I hadn’t seen any post on him by the all knowing scouts of the Caf before the last part of last season.

Anyways, I dont want to derail this thread. Good striker, but I have absolutely no way to confirm he’ll be a top or a flop.

Taremi is barely having minutes in Italy, Goncalo Ramos is still a mixed bag at PSG, Darwin Nunez blows hot and cold and is far from his numbers in Portugal, while playing for a team that plays attacking football.
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Can you please point to a player who is guaranteed success? a striker and attainable? I will be waiting.

Our best player in the last 5 years is from the Portuguese league.
 
3 shots 3 goals in his last match. Cant argue with that stat, against minnows or not thats 100% conversion rate!
 
It would be a shame for us to sign Gyokeres and end his perfect scoring form…
 
Zed is not dead said:
Old thread fuelled mainly by you though

Again my point was not a dig at Gyokeres. But again I hadn’t seen any post on him by the all knowing scouts of the Caf before the last part of last season.

Anyways, I dont want to derail this thread. Good striker, but I have absolutely no way to confirm he’ll be a top or a flop.

Taremi is barely having minutes in Italy, Goncalo Ramos is still a mixed bag at PSG, Darwin Nunez blows hot and cold and is far from his numbers in Portugal, while playing for a team that plays attacking football.
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I think its possible to analyse a group of strikers to assess what qualities they would bring to the team.
For speculative fan forums just looking at highlights and individual games will give a good picture.

For example Gyokeres i would assume offers better through ball options as apposed to Osimhen. This directly links to how the team could play, rather than how it would make chances.
Also Gyokeres has better control plus pace which allows direct balls over the top. I dont think it would be an effective option for Osimhen.

So I dont think the discussion is purely about form, but also the qualities of the player.
 
How’s his all round game? Does he have good games even without scoring?
 
Haven't watched him to get a really good idea if he is really all that or is it just a purple patch? Is he worth waiting for until the summer or try to push for Osimhen in January swap deal including Rashford with Napoli?
 
His scoring record is good but looks much more normal without the unusually high number of penalties. Samu Aghehowa has scored 1 less goal from open play than him and his non-Penalty Goals/90 is better.
 
Idxomer said:
His scoring record is good but looks much more normal without the unusually high number of penalties. Samu Aghehowa has scored 1 less goal from open play than him and his non-Penalty Goals/90 is better.
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The question is, are the penalties he is scoring made by him? If so, they would be justified in the tally.
 
gulli_G said:
The question is, are the penalties he is scoring made by him? If so, they would be justified in the tally.
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I had a look and 3 of them were made by him but we should also consider that the threshold for penalties is higher in England and even more so for United.

I wouldn't mind the signing, he does pass the eye test and looks suitable for the PL from the few games I've seen. Just don't think his numbers are as freaky as they look and they wouldn't translate to anywhere near the same in the PL. There's also the age thing, so United doesn't have any wriggle room here for him flopping or needing time to adapt.
 
Idxomer said:
His scoring record is good but looks much more normal without the unusually high number of penalties. Samu Aghehowa has scored 1 less goal from open play than him and his non-Penalty Goals/90 is better.
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He’s had a lot of penalties this season, but if you look over a larger span of time, I don’t think he has had an unusual high number. Think it was five penalty goals last season (for league).
Samu is also a good striker who seems on form, remember how he toyed with our centre backs and scored two goals just two months ago. I think both those players would be fully capable in the PL.
 
tenpoless said:
3 shots 3 goals in his last match. Cant argue with that stat, against minnows or not thats 100% conversion rate!
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That kind of conversion rate is a bad sign, not a good sign, as it tells you that he's scoring at a wildly unsustainable rate that won't continue.

What you would ideally want to see is him scoring all those goals at a normal conversion rate. Because that would mean he's doing the most important part of scoring goals, which is getting chances. And he's doing it at a high enough level to reliably score a goal a game.
 
sullydnl said:
That kind of conversion rate is a bad sign, not a good sign, as it tells you that he's scoring at a wildly unsustainable rate that won't continue.

What you would ideally want to see is him scoring all those goals at a normal conversion rate. Because that would mean he's doing the most important part of scoring goals, which is getting chances. And he's doing it at a high enough level to reliably score a goal a game.
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I would prefer a striker with that conversion rate. Creating chances shouldn’t be his main role. A very good bonus if he is creating his own chances though.
 
Galactic said:
I would prefer a striker with that conversion rate. Creating chances shouldn’t be his main role. A very good bonus if he is creating his own chances though.
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That would be a big mistake on your part.

The ability to get chances is the single most important things strikers do to get goals, and the single best statistical predictor for getting goals in the future.

Whereas generally speaking finishing stats converge over time for the vast majority of players. There are very few players who finish so well that it adds a significant amount of goals to their career versus their ability to actually get high quality goalscoring chances in the first place.
 
sullydnl said:
That kind of conversion rate is a bad sign, not a good sign, as it tells you that he's scoring at a wildly unsustainable rate that won't continue.

What you would ideally want to see is him scoring all those goals at a normal conversion rate. Because that would mean he's doing the most important part of scoring goals, which is getting chances. And he's doing it at a high enough level to reliably score a goal a game.
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Gyökeres had most shots in the league and highest non penalty xg so he is getting /creating chances.
 
A-man said:
Gyökeres had most shots in the league and highest non penalty xg so he is getting /creating chances.
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Oh agree, that was just a side tangent about extremely high conversion rates not being what you should depend on in a striker.

Gyokeres' stats are great. Removing penalties, he's scored in the Portugese league at a better rate than Haaland did in the PL last season. And even if he just scored in line with his xG, he would have scored in the Portugese league at roughly the same rate players like Salah & Watkins managed in the PL last season.

The only question is how much this surge in output that occurred when he landed in the Portugese league is connected to him playing in the Portugese league. Which we won't know until he moves. But he's done as much as he could reasonably do at Sporting to earn a move to a top side.
 
Assessment from the CL is usually the better measure for those determined to play in weak or inferior leagues. What his performance level there is would be a better indicator of 1:1 comparison, even if not perfect.

How does he look when compared to the big dogs in the competition?
 
I would have thought that Amorim and his coaches would know if he can step up to the Prem but after Ten Haags nonsense you never know. If he gets it wrong everyone will use it as a stick to beat him with. We need a top striker desperately and need to get it right
 
UpWithRivers said:
I would have thought that Amorim and his coaches would know if he can step up to the Prem but after Ten Haags nonsense you never know. If he gets it wrong everyone will use it as a stick to beat him with. We need a top striker desperately and need to get it right
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That will be a huge gamble with anyone, no one can guarantee that anyone they hope to sign will be able to do it in the PL too
 
sullydnl said:
Oh agree, that was just a side tangent about extremely high conversion rates not being what you should depend on in a striker.

Gyokeres' stats are great. Removing penalties, he's scored in the Portugese league at a better rate than Haaland did in the PL last season. And even if he just scored in line with his xG, he would have scored in the Portugese league at roughly the same rate players like Salah & Watkins managed in the PL last season.

The only question is how much this surge in output that occurred when he landed in the Portugese league is connected to him playing in the Portugese league. Which we won't know until he moves. But he's done as much as he could reasonably do at Sporting to earn a move to a top side.
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Fully agree. And it’s the same with all players coming from other leagues. It’s not just that the level is high, it’s also the specific demands in the PL that is the question mark.

I do however think he would suit the PL , by looking at the way he plays. Then you could clearly see that for some of his goals, he gets that extra tenth of a second that you wouldn’t get in the PL. It’s a bit unfortunate that Sweden NT haven’t played any really good opponents lately, as it would be interesting to compare him more with Isak and maybe get a better hint of what he is capable of against better opposition.
 
Every foreign player coming to this league is a gamble. But being clinical around the box is a skill/gift, if you have it you can apply it anywhere..when young, he had a decent record in the Championship, and has only improved since.

Him and Nuno Mendes know Ruben's system and would be a help to help establish it in the first year.
 
Devil77 said:
This thread is quite active but I see no (very few) tweets or articles actually suggesting we are in for him.
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I have seen quite a few articles and tweets, but don’t know how much substance there is. In summary: United, City, Barcelona, and to some extent Bayern and Real are interested. Gyökeres says he will stay the season out but there are rumours that Amorim has asked United to make contact for January transfer.
 
sullydnl said:
That kind of conversion rate is a bad sign, not a good sign, as it tells you that he's scoring at a wildly unsustainable rate that won't continue.

What you would ideally want to see is him scoring all those goals at a normal conversion rate. Because that would mean he's doing the most important part of scoring goals, which is getting chances. And he's doing it at a high enough level to reliably score a goal a game.
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He has more goals than appearances so far this year (30 goals in 28 appearances) and has 73 goals in 78 appearances over the past 1.5 seasons. That's a pretty sustained level.
 
SonOfFergie said:
Haven't watched him to get a really good idea if he is really all that or is it just a purple patch? Is he worth waiting for until the summer or try to push for Osimhen in January swap deal including Rashford with Napoli?
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Who is the better fit out of him and Osimhen?
 
croadyman said:
Who is the better fit out of him and Osimhen?
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Someone pointed out that Osimhen is traditional striker.

So that means Osimhen offers his quality more in the box but less quality outside the box. While Gyokeres under Amorim plays the opposite like a complete forward, who offers equally of his quality outside and inside the box.
 
croadyman said:
Should we wait it out until summer for him?
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Personally I would hold off buying a CF until the summer.

United are gonna finish midtable with or without a shiny new CF. Plus I'd rather give a big money signing a full pre-season rather than throw them into the current mess.
 
JE-365 said:
Someone pointed out that Osimhen is traditional striker.

So that means Osimhen offers his quality more in the box but less quality outside the box. While Gyokeres under Amorim plays the opposite like a complete forward, who offers equally of his quality outside and inside the box.
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Would say Gyokeres better fit then
 
RuudTom83 said:
Personally I would hold off buying a CF until the summer.

United are gonna finish midtable with or without a shiny new CF. Plus I'd rather give a big money signing a full pre-season rather than throw them into the current mess.
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I’m leaning more in this direction as well. Unless we can get a solid loan for a few months, there’s limited benefit in buying a long term striker in the winter window when most viable options wouldn’t be available until summer. Performing well against City and Pool is also a good sign that RA can win without one and should prioritize the rest of the season to entrench his tactics with the current squad. If he’s successful, we may even make a run towards the periphery of the top four.
 
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