Victor Gyökeres

Won't make any difference what so ever.

I'm happy to eat humble pie if proven wrong.

However, whilst the rest of the side functions about as good as a game on FC 25 with a ping of 150ms

Gyökeres won't offer anything different besides being more clinical from the very generous 2 chances a game he'll get( that's on a good day!!)

Hojlund presses, is quick, has sound movement off the ball and feeds off scrapes. I'd focus on other areas personally.
 
According to Mullock Ruben has no intention of breaking his promise of trying to Sporting players in this window so probably Rasmus as only striker
 
TheRedDevil2019 said:
Won't make any difference what so ever.

I'm happy to eat humble pie if proven wrong.

However, whilst the rest of the side functions about as good as a game on FC 25 with a ping of 150ms

Gyökeres won't offer anything different besides being more clinical from the very generous 2 chances a game he'll get( that's on a good day!!)

Hojlund presses, is quick, has sound movement off the ball and feeds off scrapes. I'd focus on other areas personally.
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Nonsense. Hojlund is nowhere near the level of Gyokeres. He’s a much better player and has a better all round game. Hojlund’s movement is so poor. He’s always in the wrong place, and can never reach those crosses across goal.
 
Real Madras said:
Nonsense. Hojlund is nowhere near the level of Gyokeres. He’s a much better player and has a better all round game. Hojlund’s movement is so poor. He’s always in the wrong place, and can never reach those crosses across goal.
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I never said Gyokeres isn't better, I said IT WON'T make much difference. He can't create chances for himself....
 
TheRedDevil2019 said:
I never said Gyokeres isn't better, I said IT WON'T make much difference. He can't create chances for himself....
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The thing is, we do create chances, but we don’t finish them and that is why there is all of this talk about wanting Gyokeres or Osihem. We create plenty of chances but the reason why our goal difference is minus is because we don’t take our chances. Getting one of those two players will make a massive difference.
 
TheRedDevil2019 said:
I never said Gyokeres isn't better, I said IT WON'T make much difference. He can't create chances for himself....
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Have you actually watched Gyokeres before ? A fair number of goals are generated by his own runs with the ball and creative use of space to maneuver himself into position for a quality shot.
 
Real Madras said:
The thing is, we do create chances, but we don’t finish them and that is why there is all of this talk about wanting Gyokeres or Osihem. We create plenty of chances but the reason why our goal difference is minus is because we don’t take our chances. Getting one of those two players will make a massive difference.
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Not only this, but having a quality striker who can score goals would give the opposition a massive headache in terms of where to allocate their defensive strategy to deal with a player like Gyokeres. In the present, oppo defenses aren't particularly bothered about Hojlund and Zirkzee because they know they're unlikely to score. It would also make the likes of Amad and Garnacho more effective since they would be alleviated of the burden of scoring as many goals to offset what the strikers aren't capable of.
 
Raoul said:
Not only this, but having a quality striker who can score goals would give the opposition a massive headache in terms of where to allocate their defensive strategy to deal with a player like Gyokeres. In the present, oppo defenses aren't particularly bothered about Hojlund and Zirkzee because they know they're unlikely to score. It would also make the likes of Amad and Garnacho more effective since they would be alleviated of the burden of scoring as many goals to offset what the strikers aren't capable of.
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Exactly this. Hojlund doesn’t instill any fear in opposition defenders. He does a lot of running and puts himself about but that’s about it. I personally do not rate him. He’s young and has time to develop but even then I’m not convinced. He should never be starting at a club like United just like he would never be starting in your traditional top 4 team. I think he’s been a major flop for us so far considering you’d expect a 70 odd million pound CF to score way more than he does at the moment. He’s still very raw and is not as refined at Gyokeres. If Gyokeres came in, Hojlund will be benched. Gykores has the movement, the strength and the ability to put the ball in the back of the net. He would be our Haaland, like we thought Hojlund would be.
 
Wasn't one condition of amorim's signing be him have less control over our transfer strategy compared to the bygone?

Sure, he may have promised to not raid his former club but is it his call to make to begin with ? It's a shity thing to do but he should technically have plausible deniability in case of such an outcome.
 
Real Madras said:
The thing is, we do create chances, but we don’t finish them and that is why there is all of this talk about wanting Gyokeres or Osihem. We create plenty of chances but the reason why our goal difference is minus is because we don’t take our chances. Getting one of those two players will make a massive difference.
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Hojlund has one of the best conversion rates across the league.
 
arthurka said:
Yeah can't see us agreeing anything for him.
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Mind you sold McTominay to them so at least there is already a relationship there. The ideal two is Kvaratskhelia wide supplying Gyokeres through the middle but never happening
 
Real Madras said:
Because Hojlund has 2 goals in 14 games in this PL season and 5 goals in 6 games in the EL and 0 goals in 2 games in the EFL. I’d love to see his conversion rate.
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I think its actually elite if I am not mistaken, but that's also because he doesn't really take on many shots.
 
Real Madras said:
Because Hojlund has 2 goals in 14 games in this PL season and 5 goals in 6 games in the EL and 0 goals in 2 games in the EFL. I’d love to see his conversion rate.
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Not sure about this season, but last season it was around 50%, primary because as @VP89 said, he only took about 30 shots ever.

Still great though, and all it really means is we need to get the ball into him more.
 
Real Madras said:
Show me.
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Cathy Ferguson said:
Really? He has 2 goals? That means that we hardly create any chances.
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His shot conversion rate is 25% in the league since he made his debut for United.

That's the joint 4th best record in that time, shared with Strand Larsen and Füllkrug (the German's sample size is just 8 shots, so in all likelihood that's not sustainable), behind Hwang Hee-chan, Chris Wood, and Elijah Adebayo.

Hojlund also only has 48 shots attempted, so his percentage is also likely to drop with time, but likely to drop below the range of 18-20% IMO, which is very good.

For comparison, all-time conversion rates from some other current number 9s in the PL

Durán 21.4% (24.5% since the 2023/24 season)
Isak 21% (22.8% since the 2023/24 season)
Wissa 20.8% (20.2% since 2023/24)
Haaland 20.7% (18.1% since the 2023/24 season)
Wood 19.4% (28.8% since 2023/24)
Delap 18.2% (18.8% since 2023/24)
Jackson 17.7%
Mateta 17.2% (22% since 2023/24)
Jota 17.1% (23.3% since 2023/24)
Watkins 15.1% (16.0% since 2023/24)
Havertz 13.8% (17.8% since 2023/24)
Solanke 11.7% (16.1% since 2023/24)
Núnez 10.4% (10.2% since 2023/24)

Doesn't include shots from penalties.

Most of these players have between ~75 and 125 shots I think. Jackson has over 130 and Haaland has 193. So Hojlund's 48 shots is fewer than almost, if not everyone on the list, but it's not too small of a sample size that makes it totally inconclusive either, like Füllkrug's stats, for example.

Hojlund has the 2nd best conversion rate in the Premier League since he made his debut, out of all the players who have registered at least the same number of non-penalty shots as him during that time, which is 48: https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask?q=p...ith+at+least+48+shots+attempted+since+2023/24
 
Rojofiam said:
Hojlund has one of the best conversion rates across the league.
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So whenever he isn't wrestling with a defender and losing everytime, getting to a cross just that little bit too late once again, or blaming someone like he's a big dog for not passing to him when he's never going to score, he actually puts the ball in the net?

He's scored twice this season so it must be one of them to blame.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
So whenever he isn't wrestling with a defender and losing everytime, getting to a cross just that little bit too late once again, or blaming someone like he's a big dog for not passing to him when he's never going to score, he actually puts the ball in the net?

He's scored twice this season so it must be one of them to blame.
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I'm not saying he doesn't have flaws to his game. I think he's still raw and sadly I don't think he's improved as a player at United so far, but I don't see how the blame can be put on the player in this regard, as United have been a talent graveyard for over 12 years now, and has any teenager, youth academy breakthrough player, or pre-peak age signing fulfilled their potentials here in that time? Apart from a few great, but not nearly enough great seasons from the likes of Bruno, Maguire, Rashford, Shaw, Martial, Pogba, I don't think so.

But if you give him more chances he will score more goals. That's mostly on the team and partly on the player. Probably at least 80-20 leaning towards our collective issues rather than Hojlund incapable of getting on the end of chance.

It's also not true that he loses every time he wrestles with opposition defenders.
 
Hojlund is currently very limited compared to someone like Delap. I am not sure if he can drastically improve, but right now Amorim needs a starter striker. Osimehn is good but I prefer Gyokeres for the fact he gets much more involved in the build up.
 
People defending him with "his conversion rate is great, he just doesn't get a lot of shots", as if an inability to get shots isn't in itself a much bigger red flag than good conversion rate is a positive.

Players who are good at getting chances tend to keep getting chances in bad teams (but more so in better teams). Players who are bad at getting chances tend not to get chances in good teams (and even less so in bad teams). And whether you are good/bad at getting chances is much more important than how good you are at converting them.

I generally like Hojlund. But if he's going to start getting chances to the required standard, the primary driver of that will need to be him improving his own game, not the rest of the team suddenly being able to gift those chances to him.
 
sullydnl said:
But if he's going to start getting chances to the required standard, the primary driver of that will need to be him improving his own game, not the rest of the team suddenly being able to gift those chances to him.
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It's completely the other way around.
 
He needs to do learn more than back into players and end up on his behind. He needs to go to the next step and turn that into a transition.

Something Gyokeres does regular.
 
Rojofiam said:
I'm not saying he doesn't have flaws to his game. I think he's still raw and sadly I don't think he's improved as a player at United so far, but I don't see how the blame can be put on the player in this regard, as United have been a talent graveyard for over 12 years now, and has any teenager, youth academy breakthrough player, or pre-peak age signing fulfilled their potentials here in that time? Apart from a few great, but not nearly enough great seasons from the likes of Bruno, Maguire, Rashford, Shaw, Martial, Pogba, I don't think so.

But if you give him more chances he will score more goals. That's mostly on the team and partly on the player. Probably at least 80-20 leaning towards our collective issues rather than Hojlund incapable of getting on the end of chance.

It's also not true that he loses every time he wrestles with opposition defenders.
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The problem with Hojlund is that he cost £64 million, you expect an Isak type developing player for that sort of money. The arguement about us been a graveyard for players, or players fulfilling their potential here post Fergie is another coversation.

Other than a couple of purple of patches Hojlund has been bang average for the money we paid, and that is likely because we overpaid, and he's actually the sort of player we used to take a chance on for a few million whilst having a top striker at the same time, knowing if they failed it was no big deal, whereas nowadays they're expected to be the main man straight away.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
The problem with Hojlund is that he cost £64 million, you expect an Isak type developing player for that sort of money. The arguement about us been a graveyard for players, or players fulfilling their potential here post Fergie is another coversation.

Other than a couple of purple of patches Hojlund has been bang average for the money we paid, and that is likely because we overpaid, and he's actually the sort of player we used to take a chance on for a few million whilst having a top striker at the same time, knowing if they failed it was no big deal, whereas nowadays they're expected to be the main man straight away.
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This shows how bad we were managed, Anthony and he should have been combined £70m.

Anyone over 50m should either be a generational talent or a starter.
 
Rojofiam said:
Hojlund has one of the best conversion rates across the league.
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He has one of the highest conversion rates in the league (20%)but low ability to score goals (2 goals halfway through the season). Is there any primary forward in the league who has scored less goals than him?

Conversion rate is a useless number without context. The best forwards in the world take a lot of difficult shots with low chance to score. They would probably also score in the two chances where Hojlund scored. It however tells us that he doesn’t create much. If it’s his fault or not, we can’t say just from the number itself, but he sure looks to be in the wrong place often and he doesn’t make the runs to open up the defence.

For me Hojlund is a project, one for the future. We however need someone who can score goals now. We cannot expect a better position in the table if our primary forward only scores two goals halfway through the season. I think Gyökeres could be that man, but of no one could know for sure.
 
Rojofiam said:
It's completely the other way around.
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Based on how analytics tells us football typically works, it isn't. Typically if a striker is elite at getting chances (the single most important part of returning goals) it shows even when playing in weaker teams. And if they're not, playing in a strong team doesn't magically change them into one.

Unless Hojlund is an extreme outlier, the fact that he's currently averaging a single shot per 90 tells you a lot more about him then it does the rest of the team. The team has an impact, but not that much.
 
gulli_G said:
Hojlund is currently very limited compared to someone like Delap. I am not sure if he can drastically improve, but right now Amorim needs a starter striker. Osimehn is good but I prefer Gyokeres for the fact he gets much more involved in the build up.
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Are you serious?
Højlund would run circles around Delap .
Delaps top speed is 28 km/h and Højlunds is 35 km/h.
Højlund has a much higher ceiling than Delap and is a complete forward. How you cab say he is very limited compared to Delap is just mind boggling.
The guy just need some fecking service infront of goal.
 
Rojofiam said:
His shot conversion rate is 25% in the league since he made his debut for United.

That's the joint 4th best record in that time, shared with Strand Larsen and Füllkrug (the German's sample size is just 8 shots, so in all likelihood that's not sustainable), behind Hwang Hee-chan, Chris Wood, and Elijah Adebayo.

Hojlund also only has 48 shots attempted, so his percentage is also likely to drop with time, but likely to drop below the range of 18-20% IMO, which is very good.

For comparison, all-time conversion rates from some other current number 9s in the PL

Durán 21.4% (24.5% since the 2023/24 season)
Isak 21% (22.8% since the 2023/24 season)
Wissa 20.8% (20.2% since 2023/24)
Haaland 20.7% (18.1% since the 2023/24 season)
Wood 19.4% (28.8% since 2023/24)
Delap 18.2% (18.8% since 2023/24)
Jackson 17.7%
Mateta 17.2% (22% since 2023/24)
Jota 17.1% (23.3% since 2023/24)
Watkins 15.1% (16.0% since 2023/24)
Havertz 13.8% (17.8% since 2023/24)
Solanke 11.7% (16.1% since 2023/24)
Núnez 10.4% (10.2% since 2023/24)

Doesn't include shots from penalties.

Most of these players have between ~75 and 125 shots I think. Jackson has over 130 and Haaland has 193. So Hojlund's 48 shots is fewer than almost, if not everyone on the list, but it's not too small of a sample size that makes it totally inconclusive either, like Füllkrug's stats, for example.

Hojlund has the 2nd best conversion rate in the Premier League since he made his debut, out of all the players who have registered at least the same number of non-penalty shots as him during that time, which is 48: https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask?q=premier+league+best+shot+conversion+rates+with+at+least+48+shots+attempted+since+2023/24
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Can we please stop consuming games through excel sheets?

The reason Hoijland features high on the list is because he doesn’t take many shots. The reason he isn’t able to do so is partly because in many games we don’t create enough but more often, he has a lot of limitations to his game.

Do the stats tell you why he wasn’t able to take a shot? My eyes tell me its because he often takes a bad touch, falls down while wrestling the defender, can not jump high and is very poor in the air so reaching crosses is not part of his game. His positioning is also not great and sometimes lacks the intelligence to make a run that would present him with a shooting opportunity.

Please for the love of God stop presenting stats without context. I’m not saying Hoijland isn’t going to improve but cherry picking stats to suit your point is wrong. What next? Hoijland is a better dribber because he has a higher percentage of successful dribbles than Salah?
 
Huh. I don't think Hojlund's problem is down to lack of vision and movement. I think he's just too slow for the PL

His shooting numbers in european competition are healthy enough. As they were before the move. It's only within english football that he craters

Meaning, this might be something he can't improve on
 
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AlexUTD said:
Are you serious?
Højlund would run circles around Delap .
Delaps top speed is 28 km/h and Højlunds is 35 km/h.
Højlund has a much higher ceiling than Delap and is a complete forward. How you cab say he is very limited compared to Delap is just mind boggling.
The guy just need some fecking service infront of goal.
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So you don't think we need another striker?
 
AlexUTD said:
Are you serious?
Højlund would run circles around Delap .
Delaps top speed is 28 km/h and Højlunds is 35 km/h.
Højlund has a much higher ceiling than Delap and is a complete forward. How you cab say he is very limited compared to Delap is just mind boggling.
The guy just need some fecking service infront of goal.
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Bit if a disservice to Drlap there.Have you watched him?He knows how to lead the line even in yhat Ipswich team.He can hold the ball up meaning he actually has good control of the ball,is good at running with it.Has 7 in the league
At the moment Hojlund cannot bring others into play because he's not leading the line,at all so he'll never get any fecking service.
 
Sometimes I genuinely feel like I’m watching a different Hojlund to the one that people post about on here. The one on the caf is one hell of a player
 
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