VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion

Common sense prevailed for that penalty decision to be overturned yet no doubt that there is going to be a massive uproar about it despite it being the correct clear decision. There was contact but this is a contact sport, it’s not fecking basketball. Maguire did touch him but is that touch enough to bring someone to the ground? Absolutely not unless they don’t weigh anything more than a soft newborn baby. Plus we all remember Young used to do this more often than not when he was here, falling to the ground like he had been shot.

It’s similar to the VAR uproar here in Scotland today by the Glaswegian media for that disallowed Celtic goal against Hibs. Despite the evidence showing the ball had gone out of play, the Glaswegian media are still enraged that the goal was disallowed.
 
Thank God there is something called intensity of contact. Was there a shirt pull? Absolutely yes. Was it enough contact to see Young throw himself to the ground like getting shot from a .50 cal sniper? Absolutely not.

 
Baxter said:
Young used to get hammered by the media for diving like that as a United player. There’s no way that the contact there takes both feet if the ground.
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Thom Merrilin said:
I can't believe pundits are even suggesting that should be a foul. You'd have to give at least 5 or 6 pens a game if that's the standard.
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It is all about shirt he is wearing. We know how media treat us. We know that very well. ABU is strong and club must start officially complain about that. Something club should have already done. Same goes with all those decision against us on the pitch.

Why isn’t there any talk about Beto handling ball after Zirkzee headed ball hit Brightwhite in head?
 
B20 said:
That's clearly a penalty. Owen <spits> is correct that VAR has messed up by showing just about the only angle where the shirt pull isn't visible.

What they are feeding the refs on the monitor is pathetic.
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Off course it looks a penalty for you, you are used to getting penalties for far less than this.

How can a team historically have the most number of penalties in Premier league history but only win it once?
 
SilentWitness said:
The more I see it, the more I don't know why VAR has intervened.
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I'd be happy with that decision if that meant a proper and consistent pushback against blatant theatrical diving. As in if you dive like that, you're in the wrong, regardless of what happened earlier. Sadly, I don't think that's the case (and De Ligt's shirt pulling certainly constitutes a foul).
 
Vidooq said:
Thank God there is something called intensity of contact. Was there a shirt pull? Absolutely yes. Was it enough contact to see Young throw himself to the ground like getting shot from a .50 cal sniper? Absolutely not.

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The answer to "how do you want him to go down" is pretty simple, you don't want him to go down at at all .

That being said, whatever refs saw that shirt pull and didn't give a penalty needs investigating.
 
Baxter said:
Young used to get hammered by the media for diving like that as a United player. There’s no way that the contact there takes both feet if the ground.
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Because he was a donkey, you dont dive forward when your shirt gets pulled.
 
duffer said:
The answer to "how do you want him to go down" is pretty simple, you don't want him to go down at at all .

That being said, whatever refs saw that shirt pull and didn't give a penalty needs investigating.
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Did you see the one in the Chelsea match? Cucurella basically dragged one of the Villa players away from a tap-in and no penalty was given. One of the worst VAR decisions I’ve seen all season.
 
duffer said:
The answer to "how do you want him to go down" is pretty simple, you don't want him to go down at at all .

That being said, whatever refs saw that shirt pull and didn't give a penalty needs investigating.
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You can see in the video he only starts to go down after he feels the shirt pull and the shirt pull has finished which is why it’s ridiculous and not a penalty.

If every pull of the shirt is a penalty games are going to regularly finish 19-17.
 
eire-red said:
Bad decision to give a pen but surprised it was overturned. Such is the oddity of PL officiating.

If Young doesn't swan dive I think it would have stood.
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It was given because dived in the first place. It would not be given if he stayed on his feet.
 
duffer said:
For about 1 week and then the players will stop cheating.
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It was cheating the ref. That is why it was overturned. There is no way a human being falls like that for getting tug on his shirt. It should have been a second yellow and red.
 
Giggsyking said:
It was cheating the ref. That is why it was overturned. There is no way a human being falls like that for getting tug on his shirt. It should have been a second yellow and red.
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But this is true for almost every single foul. They exaggerate the fall to get the decision. This was obviously a ridiculous example of that, doesn't mean he wasn't fouled.
 
SilentWitness said:
The more I see it, the more I don't know why VAR has intervened.
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Ofcourse you don't.

Meanwhile, every shit tug doesn't constitute a foul or penalty. De Ligt does what every defender does, quick tug of the shirt and lets go. I'd wager that Madley thinks Maguire fouls Young, mostly due to Young throwing himself up into the air as if he's been given a good old fashioned wedgie, while replays shows there's feck all in it.

Now, if they want to punish every tug of the shirt then by all means start punishing it, but considering the fact that it's not the case it would be madness to use the contact from De Ligt as an excuse to not overturn Young's pathetic dive.

It's just a case of "was Manchester United involved?", funnily enough a much worse incident in the match between Villa and Chelsea sees less talk
 
CoopersDream said:
But this is true for almost every single foul. They exaggerate the fall to get the decision. This was obviously a ridiculous example of that, doesn't mean he wasn't fouled.
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When there's less fouling and more exaggeration it's usually not a foul.
 
NotChatGPT said:
When there's less fouling and more exaggeration it's usually not a foul.
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I'm just saying that it's not necessarily not a foul just because someone falls in a way that the foul wouldn't cause. Most of the times players go down in a way they just wouldn't have if they remotely tried not to go down.
 
duffer said:
I don't really care how Young reacted to the pull. That he was was pulled is the point.
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But you can’t give a free kick every time a player puts their hands on another player. There has to be enough of a pull to unbalance them, or slow them down. That’s the way shirt pulls have always been referee’d. Young’s ridiculous dive made it impossible to know if the pull on his shirt was significant or not.
 
duffer said:
I don't really care how Young reacted to the pull. That he was was pulled is the point.
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Maguire was pulled twice in the Everton box but no one is saying we should have gotten a pen for those two incidents. Because the context matters. Or you could just give a penalty on every single corner and free kick.
 
CoopersDream said:
I'm just saying that it's not necessarily not a foul just because someone falls in a way that the foul wouldn't cause. Most of the times players go down in a way they just wouldn't have if they remotely tried not to go down.
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And? De Ligt makes a small pull on Youngs shirt, Young still gets away from him, he's not holding on and he's still ahead of De Ligt. He could've easily continued but Young decided to go for the penalty instead when he felt Maguires arm on his side.
 
NotChatGPT said:
And? De Ligt makes a small pull on Youngs shirt, Young still gets away from him, he's not holding on and he's still ahead of De Ligt. He could've easily continued but Young decided to go for the penalty instead when he felt Maguires arm on his side.
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And what. I was replying to someone saying it shouldn't be a foul because the player went down in a way that said foul wouldn't cause. This is true for a large number of fouls, even what you would call actual fouls, so it's not a good argument for it not being a foul.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
But you can’t give a free kick every time a player puts their hands on another player. There has to be enough of a pull to unbalance them, or slow them down. That’s the way shirt pulls have always been referee’d. Young’s ridiculous dive made it impossible to know if the pull on his shirt was significant or not.
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"Puts their hands on"? No, of course not.

You say "enough of a pull to unbalance or slow them down" but that's the intention of every shirt pull ever. It's always an attempt to cheat.
 
Mb194dc said:
You can see from the camera angle coming from in the goal that there are two shirt pulls, so VAR shouldn't be getting involved because it's not a clear and obvious error. Doesn't look like the ref was actually given that camera angle at the monitor though... Surprise.

Obviously Young makes a massive meal of the contact and does a swan dive and it's very soft. There's no clear error in the incident to warrant intervention in the first place, it's a very soft foul, that's all.

Scrap VAR now, not point in it at all. Still get all the mistakes just takes longer.
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The clear and obvious error rule is the one that needs binning. The right decision was gotten to at the end.
 
Desert Eagle said:
Maguire was pulled twice in the Everton box but no one is saying we should have gotten a pen for those two incidents. Because the context matters. Or you could just give a penalty on every single corner and free kick.
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Or players could stop cheating, which they would if refs consistently applied the rules.
 
NotChatGPT said:
Ofcourse you don't.

Meanwhile, every shit tug doesn't constitute a foul or penalty. De Ligt does what every defender does, quick tug of the shirt and lets go. I'd wager that Madley thinks Maguire fouls Young, mostly due to Young throwing himself up into the air as if he's been given a good old fashioned wedgie, while replays shows there's feck all in it.

Now, if they want to punish every tug of the shirt then by all means start punishing it, but considering the fact that it's not the case it would be madness to use the contact from De Ligt as an excuse to not overturn Young's pathetic dive.

It's just a case of "was Manchester United involved?", funnily enough a much worse incident in the match between Villa and Chelsea sees less talk
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I'm talking about it because it involved my team.

It just shows further inconsistencies with refereeing in my opinion. Both in terms of shirt pulling and in terms of how VAR is used.

Giggsyking said:
It was clamping on diving, giving it is like awarding diving and cheating. Would you give Maguire his ridiculous penalty shout out?
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Book him for diving then.
 
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