Shirt pulling isn't mentioned at all. It falls under "holding" and it's on page 118.
VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion
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Shirt pulling isn't mentioned at all. It falls under "holding" and it's on page 118.
Yet we see numerous examples of players holding other players shirts in every match without getting punished. I’d be in favour of a totally black and white “every shirt tug is a foul” approach. Because at least that’s consistent. But that’s never been the way it’s dealt with. There’s a great example of that in this exact match. When Maguire went down in the box while his shirt was being pulled. That wasn’t penalised either.
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He was not fouled. Tugs on shirts in the box happen like every game like hundred of times per game. Just go watch every corner. It does not give him the excuse to fall like that, it is disgusting and is everything wrong with the sport. stay on your fecking feet.
Do you read what you write ffs?
Yeah, also worth watching strikers and defenders at this level - they're almost always got full handholds of each others kit when jostling. Smarter strikers often grab the shorts/wasitband where they're pushing against hte defender so you can't see it. The only time shirt pulls are really visible in those situations is right before one let's go when they separate.
I'd be shocked if, for example, Young didn't do the exact same thing as every single free kick and corner came in.
Penalties are absurd in general in like 95% of cases. That shirt pull did not stop Young getting to the ball, him hurling himself to the ground did. Similarly, when a player's toe is touched by a strechting tackle and it causes his entire lower body to collapse - football is a contact sport, played at pace. The fact is that these players are trained to look for the penalty rather than play on because it's worth it, penalties are an 80% chance of a goal.
I think football would be an entirely different sport if we scrapped penalties except in rare cases (handball on the line, obvious denial of goal scoring opportunity) and it would be miles better. Teams would be encouraged to attack in a coordinated manner, not just run into the box and flop about. That season where we looked really good under Ole was basically only that good because Martial/Rashford and Bruno became masters of running at players in the box and taking a little knick to 'earn' a penalty. Similarly, Liverpool get tons of pens because their players have excellent ball control and get intot he box a ton. But when they don't get pens...far fewer goals.
I'd be shocked if, for example, Young didn't do the exact same thing as every single free kick and corner came in.
Penalties are absurd in general in like 95% of cases. That shirt pull did not stop Young getting to the ball, him hurling himself to the ground did. Similarly, when a player's toe is touched by a strechting tackle and it causes his entire lower body to collapse - football is a contact sport, played at pace. The fact is that these players are trained to look for the penalty rather than play on because it's worth it, penalties are an 80% chance of a goal.
I think football would be an entirely different sport if we scrapped penalties except in rare cases (handball on the line, obvious denial of goal scoring opportunity) and it would be miles better. Teams would be encouraged to attack in a coordinated manner, not just run into the box and flop about. That season where we looked really good under Ole was basically only that good because Martial/Rashford and Bruno became masters of running at players in the box and taking a little knick to 'earn' a penalty. Similarly, Liverpool get tons of pens because their players have excellent ball control and get intot he box a ton. But when they don't get pens...far fewer goals.
I know my stuff is generally considered excellent (I was the poster of the year 4 years in a row) but no, I don't typically go back and read my own posts.
I just did and can confirm, still excellent.
He should have been booked, how do you justify a penalty when a player has been sent off for diving?
Would you have given Dorgu a penalty on 81 minute? He did not fall despite much more powerful pull on him.
So what are you crying about? how do you know how much the shirt pull unbalanced Young without his dive? I can not believe I have to clarify common sense here.
I'm also unsure why they intervened once the on field decision was a pen.
I also think it wasn't a pen.
The var world we live in
Poster of the year
Odd that there’s not opposition fans on here moaning about those?
Or any other crap decision we’ve had. Just the ones (the rare ones) that favour United.
Same with social media, same with the media. We “sell”?
Dorgu was pulled on 81 minute in the penalty box.
Poster of the year
Multiple times! Not as many times as you've received warnings for crap posts but in fairness, that's a really big number.
If the ref pointed to the spot, VAR also shouldn't be getting involved, that's the point.
VAR should be scrapped ASAP, it's inconsistently applied, still get errors, slows the game down, ruins goal celebrations. No positives I can see.
It's an analogue game with lots of inconsistent laws and stuff that isn't even enforced, like GK 6 second law and foul throws. Offside was never meant to be centimeter accurate either, it's to stop goal hanging!
Amazing what a mess has been made with all the law changes in the last 10 years. All to the detriment of the entertainment and the sport generally .
Congratulations on your achievement on a football forum, that does though balance being a Chelsea fan
It’s only be one a big deal because that piece of crap ref gave a pen. If he didn’t no one would even remember it.
Achievements, not achievement. Get it right.Congratulations on your achievement on a football forum
You should add the "Give the penalty, but send him off for diving" to one of your "sensible posts" you might win the poster of the year again for that
.You should add the "Give the penalty, but send him off for diving" to one of your "sensible posts" you might win the poster of the year again for that
What on earth are you rambling about? Add it to what?
Exactly. Would love to hear the argument against this.
He should be.
But with VAR a player can throw themselves to ground safe in the knowledge that the referee either won't give the penalty and will wait for a VAR review.
Or even of he does give a penalty and it gets overturned by VAR he still won't get booked for diving.
If you consistently and strictly punish shirt pulling, the players will stop doing it. That's the argument.
I’ve not really got that vibe. Seems to be mainly moaning that Everton didn’t get a penalty.
I was asking what I should "add it to"? That's what I didn't understand about your post.
I don't care about the decisions for you. I care about the ones around my club hence why I'm talking about that one.
Since he wasn't booked we can agree to disagree about what the final outcome should have been but we can agree that the final decision was wrong as if it was overturned and he did dive he should have got a yellow.
I found an article from 2019-20 that said yellows could be given for diving if it's a penalty VAR review so either that's changed or they should have booked Young if that's the decision they made.
They still can, I think. But most refs bottle it.
I can understand your view. It's just annoying that there is inconsistency.
Have never seen a case where a penalty decision was overturned and the player subsequently booked for diving.
I would love something like the hockey penalty corners instead of Penalties. But scrapping penalties expect for the situations you say is the better solution.
I think they still can if they go to check video and can see there’s been no contact. Instances like yesterday (some contact but ref decides not enough to go down) will likely see no penalty/no card.
I can understand your reasoning because it's your club. But you can also understand our reasoning.
What I don't understand is posters fans of other clubs being upset? They can't be blinded by the United hatred.
Maybe they're unhappy with perceived shit refereeing and VAR which is fair enough.
Maybe, but then that brings it back to the point that VAR probably shouldn't have got involved.
I think we'd be better off living in a world where we get rid of Clear and Obvious and just go with VAR's opinion.
If the argument for yesterday is that VAR just doesn't think it's a penalty then the intervention is fine. The problem comes with the idea that the is supporting evidence for the refs initial decision.
If the argument for yesterday is that VAR just doesn't think it's a penalty then the intervention is fine. The problem comes with the idea that the is supporting evidence for the refs initial decision.
When Chris Sutton is defending a decision that went United’s way then you know 100% it was never a penalty.